Transmission not engaging Gear?
Discussion
Been speaking with Martin at TVR Parts Ltd, he reckons they sold approx 20 sets of the faulty (Helix QA recognised problem) plates to customers before they realised there was a problem.
Martin has been great in explaining and talking about it although both TVR Parts Ltd and Helix have failed (in my opinion) in highlighting and informing potential customers of this 'bad batch', could have been handled a bit better I think.
Terry from Helix on the other hand has yet to return my phone call or reply to my email when queried on labour compensation... yet anyway!
Will keep you all posted.
Martin has been great in explaining and talking about it although both TVR Parts Ltd and Helix have failed (in my opinion) in highlighting and informing potential customers of this 'bad batch', could have been handled a bit better I think.
Terry from Helix on the other hand has yet to return my phone call or reply to my email when queried on labour compensation... yet anyway!
Will keep you all posted.
Update fellas...
Finally heard back from Terry at Helix confirming he'd negotiate compensation for my 18hrs original wasted labour after being supplied wrong-sized clutch plates in a bad batch, so that's a plus.
'Correct' plates arrived last week from Helix via TVR Parts finally and I can confirm the new plates issued measured up on the Vernier’s at ~7.2mm thickness versus the wrong-sized plates which measured ~8.3mm (a combined ~2.2mm too thick).
It was also good to see the newly supplied plates were labelled “Gearbox Side” and “Flywheel Side” – unlike the 8.3mm plates.
However after 13hrs labour on the job yesterday and with everything re-assembled, I am disappointed to report back that the problem has not been resolved – Cannot engage any gear with the engine running and pressing the clutch.
Have tried the clutch pedal pin in both positions (extended and reduced pedal travel) with no success.
Continuing to try and diagnose again today.
Anyones recommendation would be greatly appreciated before I seriously consider torching this thing!
Does anyone have a Helix Clutch design or assembly drawing?
Pics to follow...
Finally heard back from Terry at Helix confirming he'd negotiate compensation for my 18hrs original wasted labour after being supplied wrong-sized clutch plates in a bad batch, so that's a plus.
'Correct' plates arrived last week from Helix via TVR Parts finally and I can confirm the new plates issued measured up on the Vernier’s at ~7.2mm thickness versus the wrong-sized plates which measured ~8.3mm (a combined ~2.2mm too thick).
It was also good to see the newly supplied plates were labelled “Gearbox Side” and “Flywheel Side” – unlike the 8.3mm plates.
However after 13hrs labour on the job yesterday and with everything re-assembled, I am disappointed to report back that the problem has not been resolved – Cannot engage any gear with the engine running and pressing the clutch.
Have tried the clutch pedal pin in both positions (extended and reduced pedal travel) with no success.
Continuing to try and diagnose again today.
Anyones recommendation would be greatly appreciated before I seriously consider torching this thing!
Does anyone have a Helix Clutch design or assembly drawing?
Pics to follow...
Sure, pedal feels great once bled.
5 days now of stripping this thing down and re-assembling now with no joy. Several calls made to both Helix and TVR Parts...
Helix are saying their only components are the plates and the rest of the actual clutch assembly and that I now have the correct sized plates - effectively point the blame back to the rest of the TVR Parts supplied parts (flywheel, bearings, etc).
TVR Parts are saying there was a problem with their lightened flywheel but that's all good now and are not really giving any more advice.
Neither supplier can produce full clutch assembly drawings or details when requested.
5 days now of stripping this thing down and re-assembling now with no joy. Several calls made to both Helix and TVR Parts...
Helix are saying their only components are the plates and the rest of the actual clutch assembly and that I now have the correct sized plates - effectively point the blame back to the rest of the TVR Parts supplied parts (flywheel, bearings, etc).
TVR Parts are saying there was a problem with their lightened flywheel but that's all good now and are not really giving any more advice.
Neither supplier can produce full clutch assembly drawings or details when requested.
So process of elimination, have you tried your old clutch pack on your new fly wheel? Just to establish you can get this in gear.
Have you compared and measured on the bench the physical clutch basket dimensions along the centre? Old flywheel dimensions vs new? You know the old set up worked.
Have you compared and measured on the bench the physical clutch basket dimensions along the centre? Old flywheel dimensions vs new? You know the old set up worked.
Edited by m4tti on Thursday 3rd September 07:40
OK, not good.
I have a slim boroscope and reckon one of these would pass the notch in the lower part of the bell housing and give a view of the bearing and fingers. If you can view it operating you will gain a lot of information.
What could be wrong;
Cover damaged following over thick plates being clamped, unsure what would happen but not what the cover was designed for.
Air entrapped, sounds unlikely and actually these bleed quite easily and reading your posts your mechanic has given it a good going over.
Short stroke, there is a limit to stroke with all clutches, the manufacturer should give a maximum travel distance but this is pretty useless unless you have it on the bench and can work out volumes and strokes etc. of master and slave.... technical. Have you, as I stated before, tried adjusting the stop under the pedal. Nothing to loose as if you scuttle the cover with overstroke I would shove it back at them so worth a punt before you strip out again.
Hydraulic fault, ummhhh. Don't think so, if the pedal holds pressure and you aren't loosing fluid all OK, these are simple systems.
Could be the flywheel is over relieved where the cover mounts Vs. the drive surface? Do have photo for comparison? This is an industry standard height so you will get this from your old flywheel. 1mm will stuff this up.
Have you tried starting in gear and driving with the clutch down to see if it slips. This will establish the degree of slip, if any. It will also show you if you have any control over the amount of slip with pedal pressure. If you do have some control try adjusting the stop out, if it doesn't reduce slip/increase the control with say three turns of this bolt then the fingers are bending and there is no benefit in travelling the pedal/bearing anymore.
All very poor really, you have missed summer and no drawing or help from the people who took your money! I wrote an article for Sprint about a clutch mod I did, a few years back, the maths was easy and the machine work cheap. I did another one more recently and put a triple plate in, again easy and each clutch came with a drawing, tech sheet and parts serial numbered. I selected the manufacturer (before RG started offering Helix kits) based on who answers the phone. Helix didn't first time and eventually when they did said go to this supplier and wouldn't answer, or perhaps couldn't, any tech questions.
When I was at Autosport a few years ago I found an Australian supplier who was keen to sell me clutch kits to my spec, I was looking at buying various components and combining to make a twin and triple plate range with new HRB.... didn't happen as the numbers didn't work, but the interesting bit was he mentioned another TVR buyer who had haggled him to supply clutch kits, cover and plates, at silly prices. He asked me what I was paying/looking to pay and was shocked when I told him as he had been told he needed to be at 160 sterling for quantity, they hadn't done business. Anyway I didn't like his product as it was not chain of custody controlled and seemed to involve rebranding. As I walked away I wondered who else was into bulk clutch buying and who would beat someone down on price, and who would be less fussed about quality and service.
Any ideas?
Hope you get fixed
J
I have a slim boroscope and reckon one of these would pass the notch in the lower part of the bell housing and give a view of the bearing and fingers. If you can view it operating you will gain a lot of information.
What could be wrong;
Cover damaged following over thick plates being clamped, unsure what would happen but not what the cover was designed for.
Air entrapped, sounds unlikely and actually these bleed quite easily and reading your posts your mechanic has given it a good going over.
Short stroke, there is a limit to stroke with all clutches, the manufacturer should give a maximum travel distance but this is pretty useless unless you have it on the bench and can work out volumes and strokes etc. of master and slave.... technical. Have you, as I stated before, tried adjusting the stop under the pedal. Nothing to loose as if you scuttle the cover with overstroke I would shove it back at them so worth a punt before you strip out again.
Hydraulic fault, ummhhh. Don't think so, if the pedal holds pressure and you aren't loosing fluid all OK, these are simple systems.
Could be the flywheel is over relieved where the cover mounts Vs. the drive surface? Do have photo for comparison? This is an industry standard height so you will get this from your old flywheel. 1mm will stuff this up.
Have you tried starting in gear and driving with the clutch down to see if it slips. This will establish the degree of slip, if any. It will also show you if you have any control over the amount of slip with pedal pressure. If you do have some control try adjusting the stop out, if it doesn't reduce slip/increase the control with say three turns of this bolt then the fingers are bending and there is no benefit in travelling the pedal/bearing anymore.
All very poor really, you have missed summer and no drawing or help from the people who took your money! I wrote an article for Sprint about a clutch mod I did, a few years back, the maths was easy and the machine work cheap. I did another one more recently and put a triple plate in, again easy and each clutch came with a drawing, tech sheet and parts serial numbered. I selected the manufacturer (before RG started offering Helix kits) based on who answers the phone. Helix didn't first time and eventually when they did said go to this supplier and wouldn't answer, or perhaps couldn't, any tech questions.
When I was at Autosport a few years ago I found an Australian supplier who was keen to sell me clutch kits to my spec, I was looking at buying various components and combining to make a twin and triple plate range with new HRB.... didn't happen as the numbers didn't work, but the interesting bit was he mentioned another TVR buyer who had haggled him to supply clutch kits, cover and plates, at silly prices. He asked me what I was paying/looking to pay and was shocked when I told him as he had been told he needed to be at 160 sterling for quantity, they hadn't done business. Anyway I didn't like his product as it was not chain of custody controlled and seemed to involve rebranding. As I walked away I wondered who else was into bulk clutch buying and who would beat someone down on price, and who would be less fussed about quality and service.
Any ideas?
Hope you get fixed
J
I'm glad they were upfront with you over the parts as they certainly were not when I installed a Helix clutch in my friends car, despite several calls to them they never cracked a light over the problematic units. I tried everything and was totally exasperated thinking I had missed something.
They will not get future business from me.
They will not get future business from me.
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