Transmission not engaging Gear?

Transmission not engaging Gear?

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JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Sunday 24th May 2015
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Jumped in the 2004 Tuscan yesterday and took off, all good. 50meters later I'm stopped at traffic lights and have her in neutral, de-press the clutch and go to put her in 1st - Gearstick won't go into 1st, 2nd or anything...?

Have to push her back home and reassess...

Jumped in her this morning, de-pressed the clutch and she appears to be engaging gears again!?!

WTF? anyone?

wanus1312

95 posts

119 months

Sunday 24th May 2015
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Have you checked the fluid level in the reservoir in the footwell? happened to mine and lucky only needed a clutch slave seal kit ...plus 4 litres of gearbox oil..

JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Sunday 24th May 2015
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dvs_dave

8,581 posts

224 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Clutch is on the way out. Could be a leaking slave cylinder or snapped clutch release spring fingers. Don't mess about with slave cylinder seal kits or any other half arsed repairs. They never last. Get an updated clutch and slave cylinder installed at the same time and be done with it. The bulk of the job is in labour, so you'll end up spending more on revisits if you don't do the job properly first time round. Speaking from experience here...

Flying Penguin

326 posts

158 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Just as a thought... Maybe gear stick itself is becoming loose:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

However, if the gear stick is not the problem, afraid have to agree with Dave's comments above... also speaking from experience tongue out

Edited by Flying Penguin on Monday 25th May 08:37


Edited by Flying Penguin on Monday 25th May 08:38

ackbullchang

270 posts

209 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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My thoughts are that this is likely to be slave cylinder, but start at the top with the simple/easiest things and work through in a logical order before diagnosing snapped clutch fingers, which are costly.

1) can't see properly whether the reservoir is down from the max mark. Try topping it up and bleeding system properly.
2) check the master behind the footplate, and signs of leaking clutch fluid around here? The master can easily be changed on a driveway, but it is a test of patience. Getting to the manifold pipes to undo the nuts is a serious knuckle scraper!
3) any difference between engine running and engine off? Did you "pump" the clutch the 2nd time around, and was this why the clutch disengaged 2nd time around? Does pumping the clutch give any change in resistance?
4) put the car up on ramps (engine in the air). Is there any fluid leaking from the gearbox bell housing? This is a sure sign of slave failure.
5) as stated above check the alignment of the gearstick, is this preventing entering the gates smoothly? This might be unlikely as you engaged gears the next day.
6) often the clutch sticking to the flywheel is misdiagnosed as a slave issue. Does the car get stuck "in gear" and you can't operate the clutch to get the car out of gear? A way to release a sticking clutch is to turn the car over, whilst stuck in gear, using the ignition (starter motor) whilst holding a foot on the brake pedal. If the clutch plate is sticking to the flywheel, then the clutch may need to come out to assess any issues on the clutch face/flywheel resurfaced.
7) have you checked the amount of travel in the clutch pedal? It may be that the clutch is only just disengaging and adjustment may solve the issue. Note that adjusting the clutch pedal travel too far can over stress the clutch fingers causing premature wear and eventual snapping.

Failing all this, if the slave does need to come out, it's about 3 to 4 hours total labour at an indie. New slaves are circa £100 and I think new clutches (AP) are now circa £750. In extreme cases a new bell housing may be needed.

Flying Penguin

326 posts

158 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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ackbullchang said:
New slaves are circa £100 and I think new clutches (AP) are now circa £750. In extreme cases a new bell housing may be needed.
Alternatively Helix:

http://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-q0...

JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Thing is, I have had no symptoms coming, the clutch and gearbox has felt the same recently and not slowly feeling loose.

I was on a downward incline when this happened and the level in the reservoir already seems lower than it should be..?

ackbullchang

270 posts

209 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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It doesn't take hardly any fluid loss to have problems. Any loss of pressure in the system from even the smallest leaks will effect operation. From my experience "feel" of the clutch pedal is no indicator until you are way past the point of no return.

Does pumping the clutch make any difference? Try working through the recommended checks and try to eliminate things in a logical order, starting with the easiest.

JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Thanks all and ackbullchang, definitely have a process of elimination list for when I get time to look into it.
Haven't tried your 3rd point from above either but will report back.

One question on the brake fluid reservoir - the line coming out from the top left half of the reservoir is the clutch line right? Why the hell is it at the top half of the reservoir and not near the bottom???

Rich912

201 posts

215 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Because if you have a fluid leak in the clutch system you will still have brakes, which can be useful.

Rich912

201 posts

215 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Because if you have a fluid leak in the clutch system you will still have brakes, which can be useful.

JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Ah right of coarse!

Another question - how much brake fluid does the system hold all up?

Rich912

201 posts

215 months

Thursday 28th May 2015
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Why do you need to know? I recently did a complete rebuild and when fitting new brake lines and refurbed calipers I used about 1 litre to bleed it. I did pump quite a bit through the system to clear it all out though, I would guess the whole system holds between 1/4 and 1/2 litre.

Billiam

135 posts

121 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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Good evening JorEl, just thought id post my 2p worth as i have had a similar experience..

Looking at your photo, is that a wee leak from the resevoir on the side or just a shaky hand topping up ? Look for evidence of any leakage in footwell behind pedals, you could be lucky and just need a master cylinder.. (£60part/£100 fitted approx) Remove the alluminium tray around the pedals and reach in with your phone and take some blind snaps, below is a pic of mine with signs of leakage, the boot can seep just slightly but as soon as theres air in it, you will lose pressure. Its located directly behind the clutch pedal just in case. One observation i will highlight in the hope it assists further, with my car (2001 Tuscan S) i noticed the clutch pedal simply didnt 'feel' right.. Previously when pressed it would have a firm ark met with a 'clunk' as the pedal struck the stopper (missing its rubber guard but i like the sound) and after it 'went' one day, it just kinda sponged down and didnt clunk at all..

Next time its not engaging, try 'pumping' the clutch to select gears, if it works it supports possible master cylinder or a simple system bleed.. but first check that footwell wink



As afore mentioned, the gearknob itself has to be 'facing' the correct way (sometimes the top is slightly off and so numbers not always facing you) as after a replacement clutch mine was loose and i had to literally turn it to ensure it was facing the right way when stopped.. Otherwise it would not engage gear without a little muscle but was always concious of possibly causing damage that way !

Hope this helps smile

MartH70

92 posts

151 months

Friday 5th June 2015
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Did you have any luck sorting this? Ours has a very similar problem, clutch was perfect and then suddenly one day could not get it in 1st or reverse, Had new slave fitted and bled but problem no better, although clutch feels much smoother . Once warmed up it works great, but when cold you cant get first or reverse! Anyone got any ideas, some people have said clutch needs replacing? But why does it get better once warm?? Another suggestion was new gear box oil....

JorEl

Original Poster:

75 posts

145 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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Thanks all for the comments. Work commitments have restricted me from looking at this until now... Update as follows:

1) Topped up reservoir, only needed a very little amount - No signs of leaks whatsoever.
2) Engine off: Can engage all gears. Engine on: Cannot engage any gears.
3) "Pumping" the clutch the 2nd time around doesn't help at all and doesnt change any resistance.
4) No fluid leaking from the gearbox bell housing whatsoever (a sure sign of slave failure).
5) Alignment of the gearstick all good - Entering the gates smoothly with engine off.
6) Suspect clutch sticking to the flywheel is the issue - I did get caught in a terential downpour of rain last time I successfully had the car out and got her home after driving through several very deep puddles - one week after that event is when this problem happened. Slight rust build up causing the clutch to stick perhaps?
7) Tried to release the suspected sticking clutch by turning the car over, whilst stuck in gear, using the ignition (starter motor) whilst holding a foot on the brake pedal - Unsucsessful.
8) Clutch pedal travel is ok.

PetrolHeadPete

743 posts

188 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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Surely a broken finger on the clutch diaphragm...

ackbullchang

270 posts

209 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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Unfortunately sounds like you will need to drop the box, and examine the clutch. Don't discount the slave 100 percent just yet, clutch fluid isn't always obvious. On mine, the cars nose had to be right up in the air on axle stands before ifluid started to drip from the bell housing, nothing was obvious before this.

Fingers crossed.

m3coupe

1,104 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th June 2015
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When my clutch went, I had pretty much the same issues. All was fine then one day, trouble getting it into any gear. Got it home, started it the next day and all was fine, any gear you want.

Twenty minutes later, no gears and I had a 20 minute drive home in 5th gear all the way.

Clutch knackered, several fingers gone and £1800 lighter including service and other parts needing done.