750 MC @ Croft

[coppice]

Don't know if many 750 folk read this thread but if you do , then congratulations for staging the best meeting I have seen at Croft for many years. Huge grids(never seen a 40 car grid there in 45 years of attendance), close and (mainly ) clean racing , a diversity of cars and so slickly organised. I am used to interminable delays between races but not today- quick podium interview and away again. Brilliant stuff . And if the people who were responsible for some of the utterly pathetic events held at Croft recently- 4 and 5 car grids FFS - could take a leaf out of the 750 MC's book the world would be a better place. Come back soon....

[Chunkychucky]

I was in attendance with a mate who was racing in the Compact Cup (number 47), in total agreement - with 40 cars there was action all throughout the field! However I don't think you can blame Croft for slim grid numbers, it's a common theme through many race series, either due to high entry costs or other reasons I don't know..

[coppice]

I don't blame Croft the circuit at all; I do blame cynical organising clubs who run woefully under-supported championships.

[Drumroll]

Don't see how you can say a racing club is cynical. Take the last BARC meeting they couldn't merge the single seaters as one was a series and not a championship. Not really sure why they couldn't have merged the BMW's but I suspect the championship rules state separate races. A lot of races now are brought races, that is a championship buys time at an event, the club's are happy with this as they get a revenue, regardless of entries. Most club meetings in this country run at a break even level.

[coppice]

The trouble is that it is is always possible to find a reason as if that that makes it OK. But it isn't OK - we have a huge number of racers in this country but an excess of championships , often near identical, which dilute attendance and make for a dull day out for all. Recent utter jokes have been the GT3 Cup ( was it 5 cars , one of whom was 10 seconds slower than the rest , GR8 series (which wasn't great at all) and some FF2000 and BMW races ). HSCC and 750 MC seem to get it right most of the time - shame about some of the rest.

[Drumroll]

Part of the reason for some of those championships is competitors falling out and not peeling there needs are catered for and go off and set up their own championship. Very difficult for clubs to decide what championships to bring on and what to support. To an extent HSCC and 750MC have it easy. Don't get me wrong I am all for larger grids, as are organising clubs, but like so many things in life it is not that easy to get things sorted.

Take DDMC's Northern Saloons as an example. The competitors themselves prefer split grids, the club try's to accommodate that but it has to buy/pay for 2 race slots. which is fine if everybody who is registered for the championship turns up, but they don't so you end up with 2 races of 15 cars when you could in theory had a grid of 30. But as all the financial deals for the season have been done if DDMC say we will just have one race they will still have to pay for two or the organizing club will make a loss.

[MyVTECGoesBwaaah]

[mozzerS]

Agree with OP
Saturday was my first visit to Croft (spectating & taking photos, not racing) and first time at a 750 MC meeting, so I don't have any previous Croft or 750 MC experience to compare it to, but it was certainly a great day of action and looked very well run.
I spent quite a lot of time around the assembly area and nearby paddocks - all very tidy - from what I saw anyway. As you say, plenty of cars on track for each session.
Might have to look at trying a roadsports race

[markbates]

I wasn't able to get to Croft, would have loved to though. I was at Brands earlier this year to watch them though. They always put on fantastic racing with monster grids and close racing.
They clearly have the right ideas, affordable racing which cater for all levels. Other clubs keep trying to 'flog a dead horse' If I could afford to race I would be looking at the Clio's, or even the new super cooper cup for Mini Coopers, sadly even at 750MC entry fee rates I couldn't afford it so will have to stay as a spectator, but I wouldn't pay money to go any watch most clubs as its not worth the entry fee. To be fair im surprised other championships who run with the likes of BARC arnt jumping ship and approaching them to run them.
Keep up the great work, slickly run meetings, no hanging around, big grids, plenty of action through the field you will keep getting my gate entry fee's (well the circuit will).

[Heatherj]

We race with the 750mc in the RGB Championship (Wolfe TG03 #49 Tony Gaunt), it was our 1st visit to Croft and it exceeded all our expectations, we had a fantastic time, the circuit was challenging but fun and everyone so friendly and welcoming.
To see so many spectators was amazing I hope you all had as good a time as we did.
We have voted to visit Croft next year.

I think the 750 motor club works as well as it does is because it involves the people who race with regular committee meetings, and actually listens to what the racers want and need.
No Motorsport is 'cheap' but it is as accessible as Motorsport can be with Championships ranging from budget tin top to bells and whistles Bike Sports and everything in between.
The paddock atmosphere is so friendly that it actually becomes as much of a social event involving all the family.

Regards
Heather

[Mark Benson]

Drumroll said:

Take DDMC's Northern Saloons as an example. The competitors themselves prefer split grids, the club try's to accommodate that but it has to buy/pay for 2 race slots. which is fine if everybody who is registered for the championship turns up, but they don't so you end up with 2 races of 15 cars when you could in theory had a grid of 30. But as all the financial deals for the season have been done if DDMC say we will just have one race they will still have to pay for two or the organizing club will make a loss.

Not all the competitors wanted split grids. We moved from the Clio to the Ginetta the year they listened to some of the (more vocal) drivers and split the grids, ending up in the A&E race which struggled to field 15 cars at a lot of circuits.

As a result we lost interest. Big grids are more fun for competitors too.

[djroadboy]

Mark Benson said:

Drumroll said:

Take DDMC's Northern Saloons as an example. The competitors themselves prefer split grids, the club try's to accommodate that but it has to buy/pay for 2 race slots. which is fine if everybody who is registered for the championship turns up, but they don't so you end up with 2 races of 15 cars when you could in theory had a grid of 30. But as all the financial deals for the season have been done if DDMC say we will just have one race they will still have to pay for two or the organizing club will make a loss.

Not all the competitors wanted split grids. We moved from the Clio to the Ginetta the year they listened to some of the (more vocal) drivers and split the grids, ending up in the A&E race which struggled to field 15 cars at a lot of circuits.

As a result we lost interest. Big grids are more fun for competitors too.

As many have Mark. Unfortunately the DDMC only listen to a select few and now the championship is disappearing up it's own arse with very poor grid sizes.

I fancy running in Roadsports next year. What you doing with the Ginetta?

Dan

[coppice]

Great series but wtf went wrong - yet to see them at their home circuit Croft but have been to such Northern venues as Mallory and Rockingham. What is going on ? Darlington and District MC are based ten minutes from Croft - so why the move elsewhere - usual self destruct lemming instinct that too many series have when they are successful ?

[markbates]

coppice said:

Great series but wtf went wrong - yet to see them at their home circuit Croft but have been to such Northern venues as Mallory and Rockingham. What is going on ? Darlington and District MC are based ten minutes from Croft - so why the move elsewhere - usual self destruct lemming instinct that too many series have when they are successful ?

To be fair to DDMC they probably cant afford the circuit hire. I would think even Croft is a very expensive place to hire especially as you can only run half a day on Sunday. That together with small grids means that they couldnt afford to hire the place. Then they are forced to rent track time from other clubs which results in going to other venues (I believe one of the northern championships is at Silverstone this weekend). After all when a club such as 750MC go to croft they have packed grids for all races they cant fit any others in such as DDMC and they can sell the time to the own competitors and have more chance of breaking even at the end of the day.

[Mark Benson]

djroadboy said:

Mark Benson said:

Drumroll said:

Take DDMC's Northern Saloons as an example. The competitors themselves prefer split grids, the club try's to accommodate that but it has to buy/pay for 2 race slots. which is fine if everybody who is registered for the championship turns up, but they don't so you end up with 2 races of 15 cars when you could in theory had a grid of 30. But as all the financial deals for the season have been done if DDMC say we will just have one race they will still have to pay for two or the organizing club will make a loss.

Not all the competitors wanted split grids. We moved from the Clio to the Ginetta the year they listened to some of the (more vocal) drivers and split the grids, ending up in the A&E race which struggled to field 15 cars at a lot of circuits.

As a result we lost interest. Big grids are more fun for competitors too.

As many have Mark. Unfortunately the DDMC only listen to a select few and now the championship is disappearing up it's own arse with very poor grid sizes.

I fancy running in Roadsports next year. What you doing with the Ginetta?

Dan

Currently co-driving in the CSCC Mag Sevens in a 2.0 Westy Dan. Ginetta is sitting in a garage in Leeds doing very little other than the odd trackday, though there was talk of an outing in the Modern Classics - Rich and I need to get our heads together and work something out.

DDMC - who knows what the problems are - they always had to beg for places on other people's calendars due to the size of the club but because they were well run, raced clean and had a big following that was never an issue. Part of the attraction I think was a small organiser who was flexible and a group of diverse drivers who just wanted to have a good race.
Something changed a few years back, but I can't put my finger on what - maybe they listened to the wrong people - I know a group of people, Dan (above) included felt disenfranchised by the DDMC and they did nothing to accommodate them. We were happy just to turn up and race, but when they split the grids and put classes A&E into 15 car grids (fewer in a lot of cases), we lost patience too - what's the point of paying hundreds of pounds to circulate on your own? No fun for the drivers or the spectators.

[sam919]

It's correct that the DDMC have to clagg onto other race meetings, hence we get the non desirable paddock areas!

The change a few years ago, you let one guy dominate the field with a Jade sports racer but don't let an RGB spire run at all, old committee views and politics.

The above reason was based on time differences between front and rear cars within the classes in this case A-E yet the time difference is bigger in the BCDF classes indicating a bigger disparity in performance.

So they have an oportunity to include include, RGB cars, radicals ( they could run on narrower rims/ 1b tyres if needed) and get close to the jade but politics deem this a bad idea hence, what's the point in running A-E and getting nowhere!

[coppice]

It is a common malaise in the sport - rules are applied aggressively even when it is clear to anybody apart from those obsessed about them that they need changing. If the outcome is a poorly supported series which is dying on its feet - fewer competitors, fewer spectators, less coverage etc then it is time to change. It is now June and DDMC NORTHERN S and SC series has yet to visit a circuit North of the Trent - somebody needs to get a bloody grip

[Dollyman1850]

Personally I am just a Mid 40's fat bloke who likes to play out from time to time…Experience from a good few years spannering around tracks and also seeing the organisation of a championship at close hand has taught me that people forget that there is always someone to race within any championship..Its a shame so many forget about the fun part and seem to fixate on what everyone else may be doing to have a better chance of winning a plastic cup at the end of it all…Experience also tells me that whilst many may whinge there are fewer and fewer organisers who are prepared to shell out the many thousands of quid up front without any guarantees of getting the series money back if people don't turn up..

I have only tested with the DDMC lot and thus far I have found them to be a very friendly and welcoming bunch of courteous race drivers and the organisation of the championship is very good..

I personally am looking forward to having a play out at Croft with them all for the first time…Looking at my lap times however I expect to be racing from the back with just about the entire field

N.

[coppice]

They are indeed a great bunch and I have followed the series for many years; it just such a shame that for whatever reason they hardly ever race at their home circuit . It used to be nearly every meeting - so what has changed and why I wonder?

[Mark Benson]

sam919 said:

The change a few years ago, you let one guy dominate the field with a Jade sports racer but don't let an RGB spire run at all, old committee views and politics.

The above reason was based on time differences between front and rear cars within the classes in this case A-E yet the time difference is bigger in the BCDF classes indicating a bigger disparity in performance.

So they have an oportunity to include include, RGB cars, radicals ( they could run on narrower rims/ 1b tyres if needed) and get close to the jade but politics deem this a bad idea hence, what's the point in running A-E and getting nowhere!

Ah yes, the 'Elise' that isn't, even though it appears in the entry lists as an Elise, but is nothing of the sort.

Lot of grumbling in the paddock about that one. A lot of people were unhappy about it, I wouldn't have had a problem if they'd have let the rest of us enter something similar, no-one could give me a good answer as to why a Jade with a fibregalss body was allowed yet a Radical wasn't.

When we switched from the Clio we asked about 2 possibilities;

a) Would there be a chance of letting some kind of sports prototype (Radical etc.) race as we really felt we wanted to try something with proper downforce (we'd both done Sevens and Saloons and wanted to try something else, the NSSCC was our local championship - we liked everything else about it, the drivers, the officials and pretty much everyone involved).
b) Could we share the drive and score points together, as they do in the CSCC. We had shared a car from the early days and had taken it in turns to do race weekends with the DDMC - we were never going to win anything like that as we only competed half the events but that wasn't really the point, each doing one race per weekend would at least make the long journey to say, Knockhill more worthwhile for both of us, not just the driver.

Both points were an emphatic 'No' even though we seemed to have quite a bit of support for the second point. At the same time they split the grids and the disparity in lap times combined with the poor grid numbers meant we often didn't see another car after the first lap - so race days became a expensive trackdays.
I've never been quite sure where the decisions were made on that score but to me that's where the series was strangled and as drivers drift away, there's a danger that fewer will attracted in to replace them if the only option to go properly quick is to spend £50k on a saloon with big power, which seems to be the case at the moment.

Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 16th June 09:46