Nobody likes Porsche Drivers?
Discussion
hora said:
I'm late. The Cayenne is 'ok' until it gets a few years old then every villian/wannabe rapper seems to drive them round my way.
No other Porsche is like that. Why?
Plus it comes in diesel so I'm out.
I'm a big fan of the Cayenne. In its earlier guise Porsche hadn't quite understood the concept of luxury and that aspect was a little clumsy/childish but the S was a better drive than the Range Rover at the time and the Turbo introduced a whole new driving experience for a PHer. No other Porsche is like that. Why?
Plus it comes in diesel so I'm out.
I also like the fact that Porsche had the honesty to embrace the very clear truth that SUVs were no longer about going offroad and hadn't been since 1981 when Land Rover launched the first luxury SUV.
The second generation is an even better car and they have finally understood how to add luxury correctly. However, I feel the car cheats by being that much lower so you'd expect it to be a better steer than the first gen car. At the rate most SUVs are going they'll have gone back to being estates within a few years.
However, Porsche is not just about quality engineering. It is about performance and winning and sport. When you buy a Porsche product you know you have bought something that is not just engineered to last but to outperform. Day in day out.
Porsche is synonymous with not just performance but out performance. The 911 Turbo is arguably the best performing sports car you can buy on almost every combined metric of cost, performance, durability etc. The Boxster and Caymen are right at the very top of their segments and the Cayenne Turbo had no true competitor until the new Rangie Sport and defined it's own performance catagory in the SUV market. Even the Panamera is at the top of the saloon sector.
What the juddering f
k is the Cayenne Diesel doing? Or that wheezy lump of crap in the Panamera? That stty engine is an anathema to everything that Porsche stands for. It is not premium or performance it is a generic lump of utilitarian blandness dropped into a car for no other reason that to we the brand to as many fools as possible and eek out every last penny of profit possible with no thought or regard for the heritage or future of a great brand. The later diesel unit in the Cayenne is a proper performance product, delivering what you'd expect from Porsche. But the base one is a total afront to the whole concept of Porsche.
Porsche SE owns Volkswagon Group. It owns some of the largest utility brands on the planet. It has absolutely no need whatsoever to make Porsche AG build non performing, generic utility wagons. Just like their Lamborghini or Bentley marques they should protect Porsche and stop whoring it into oblivion.
And it is this whoring of one of the greates car marques in history and builder of some of the greatest cars and cars which defined new classes and always set a benchmark to follow that has created the very obvious effect of the 'bellend owner' that so many people, even fellow Porsche owners have noticed.
We might take the piss out of Lotus or TVR owners but none of them ever have to argue that they are car enthusiasts but on every Porsche thread the owner enthusiasts feel obliged to try and separate themselves from the myriad non enthusiast owners. On PH, it is a given that whatever anyone owns they are an enthusiast for that car because of its qualities as a car. The image or prestige aspect, which is a factor for every single PHer unless they are mentally ill or defective is secondary.
Outside of environments such as PH it is very fair and somewhat obvious to state that this is reversed and that many owners of new Porsche's are merely renting an image for the benefit of the neighbours for a few years until passing the car over to an actual enthusiast who wants the car for the original ethos of Porsche.
DonkeyApple said:
However, Porsche is not just about quality engineering. It is about performance and winning and sport. When you buy a Porsche product you know you have bought something that is not just engineered to last but to outperform. Day in day out.
Not any more. They're no better or worse built than any other mass produced car. In many circumstances a lot of more mundane stuff is way better built these days. Corners are cut, and they are cut often. You don't notice it for the first 3 years as it's covered by warranty. Most Porsche owners are then frightened into extending the warranty (which is staggeringly expensive when you take into account servicing, inspection and parts costs as you tie yourself to Porsche for EVERYTHING).juansolo said:
Mr Tidy said:
I think most are probably very good but "base" models are bought by aspirational people - I used to love winding up 924 owners in my Capri 2.8 Injection, much like I enjoy meeting base model Boxsters in my Z4C!
Couldn't afford an M then? 
ORD said:
Donkey, Porsche shouldn't be selling diesel cars. That's it. No need to worry about whether the diesel engine is st (as all are) or very st.
I tend to agree. At least the new diesel in the Cayenne S has the kind of performance worthy of the brand. The base diesel in the Cayenne and Panamera is an afront. t (as all are) or very st. And on top of that, the basic principle that someone blows £70k on a car and then can't afford petrol just highlights the farce of this 21st century credit bubble.
The fact that Porsche AG has absolutely no specific need to w
e the Porsche SE out for every last penny is what makes it truly depressing though. chris7676 said:
Cayenne or a Porsche?
It's ugly.
Big.
Obstructive.
Even if it's all in the eye of the beholder it looks like the beholders tend to agree.
True.It's ugly.
Big.
Obstructive.
Even if it's all in the eye of the beholder it looks like the beholders tend to agree.
But all SUVs look horrendous. Even the RR is an ugly boat compared to a saloon or estate. Putting aspirational imagery aside, the SUV shape is pretty bulbous and minging.
veevee said:
What are SUVs for? I've never quite been able to work it out. I don't understand why people buy them.
Fun. They don't do anything major that other cars can't do in reality. OK, getting a seven seater that isn't an SUV can be hard. Most normal cars can be used for the basic offroading that needs doing. Etc etc.
But I like them because firstly they are tremendous fun to hoon and secondly they are the fastest way to cross country. And on top of that they are relaxing to drive when you want to potter about.
I wouldn't ever have a slow one. Wouldn't ever concern myself over economy.
The far superior line of sight that being properly higher up gives you makes overtaking opportunities more frequent and as you can see all angles of junctions more clearly you can cross such obstacles more quickly.
Fast SUVs are phenominal fun. I don't know why people buy slow ones though.
veevee said:
What are SUVs for? I've never quite been able to work it out. I don't understand why people buy them.
Posted pics earlier of mine: Towing, off roading, transporting Great Danes, driving in frightful Canadian winters,...just about all the things that a sports cars is really bad at. I need a V8 in a vehicle that will haul over 5000 lbs behind it.DonkeyApple said:
Fun.
...
But I like them because firstly they are tremendous fun to hoon and secondly they are the fastest way to cross country. And on top of that they are relaxing to drive when you want to potter about.
I can't see how something so tall and heavy would be more fun, or quicker, than the same engine in a large estate or saloon car?...
But I like them because firstly they are tremendous fun to hoon and secondly they are the fastest way to cross country. And on top of that they are relaxing to drive when you want to potter about.
RDMcG said:
veevee said:
What are SUVs for? I've never quite been able to work it out. I don't understand why people buy them.
Posted pics earlier of mine: Towing, off roading, transporting Great Danes, driving in frightful Canadian winters,...just about all the things that a sports cars is really bad at. I need a V8 in a vehicle that will haul over 5000 lbs behind it.
veevee said:
DonkeyApple said:
Fun.
...
But I like them because firstly they are tremendous fun to hoon and secondly they are the fastest way to cross country. And on top of that they are relaxing to drive when you want to potter about.
I can't see how something so tall and heavy would be more fun, or quicker, than the same engine in a large estate or saloon car?...
But I like them because firstly they are tremendous fun to hoon and secondly they are the fastest way to cross country. And on top of that they are relaxing to drive when you want to potter about.
I think the best example I can give was being able to overtake an Aston on a corner on the A90 because for him it was a blind bend that he needed to slow down and stay in lane for whereas for me, as I could see over the embankment and see every bit of tarmac I had no need to slow. Or out in the Cotswolds where the roads undulate a lot and in the TVR you have a lot of blind dips that stop you passing that in the Ramgie you don't. Another aspect, especially at the moment as most councils haven't been out yet to cut the vegetation is the approach to many junctions, like roundabouts, are obscured in a lower car meaning you have to slow or stop. But are not in a taller car. In a lower car, to travel at the same sort of speeds at which you can in an SUV you need to be taking more risks.
For the fun bit. All I can suggest is that you take an old shape Cayenne Turbo for a B road test drive and then take a 911 Turbo out from the same era. The 911 is the faster car on paper. But you will find that on an English B road complex with all its dips, undulations, ridges, obscured corners, concealed junctions, hedges, potholes etc, you'll travel quicker in the big ugly fridge and you'll be laughing out loud at how it gets round a corner and rips itself out the other side.
Likewise with the new SVR Rangie Sport versus the same engine in the XF or XJ. The Sport will leave you laughing.
Proper performance SUVs are enormous fun to hoon.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 28th May 09:39
Cpb1702 said:
veevee said:
You have actual reasons, I fully agree with them, but I mean why do people ACTUALLY buy them. The 90% of people who don't need to tow anything, etc.
Safety! How many time have you seen a crash and the 4x4 is fine and the other car is a crumpled mess!Personally, I just think cars in general are way bigger than they need to be. Park a 90's 3 series next to a new one and the size difference is huge. The new 3 would probably be closer to the older 7 series!
Cpb1702 said:
veevee said:
You have actual reasons, I fully agree with them, but I mean why do people ACTUALLY buy them. The 90% of people who don't need to tow anything, etc.
Safety! How many time have you seen a crash and the 4x4 is fine and the other car is a crumpled mess!I often wonder how true this statement is? (seriously, I don'y know).
Personal choice though, buy what you want.
Cpb1702 said:
veevee said:
You have actual reasons, I fully agree with them, but I mean why do people ACTUALLY buy them. The 90% of people who don't need to tow anything, etc.
Safety! How many time have you seen a crash and the 4x4 is fine and the other car is a crumpled mess!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff