911 (991) Turbo versus Turbo S
Discussion
Hi all,
Long time lurker and recently popped my posting cherry over in the supercar general forum. Long story short, I am looking to upgrade from a Maserati Granturismo MC Shift into something (a) quicker and (b) more modern - mine is a 2009 plate and I fancy something a bit newer and am beginning to feel the Masser despite all the things it does fantastically well, is a little behind the times in some technological aspects.
Whilst I have toyed with the idea of 458's, FF's etc I like the idea of something that is everyday usable and furthermore the car wont be garaged and I worry about having a red Ferrari on the driveway not far from a main road! Too much unwanted attention is pretty much guaranteed, going to save my Ferrari days for when I have a detached house with a garage.
So, having gone through a process of elimination I have arrived at the 911 Turbo being a sensible option - it offers a huge upgrade speed wise, looks incredible, is everyday usable and doesn't scream "look at me" like some of the options I have had to rule out.
My question to the seasoned Porsche experts (please forgive my ignorance, I am very new to Porsche and haven't particularly considered one at any point in life until now) pertains to the differences between the Turbo and the Turbo S. I dont see myself as an expert driver, i.e. I wont be tracking the car, I wont be power sliding round corners etc haha. I wanted to find out whether I am really missing out by NOT getting the S? Will the everyday user who sees a car as more something to like the look of and occasionally put their foot down get the benefit the extra amount of £'s suggests an S will bring?
As things stand a used Turbo S can be found at circa £118k give or take, that is a year or so old with 10 000 or so miles. A used Turbo with 3 - 4000 miles that is less than 6 months old can be found at about the same. Finally, I have the option to buy a brand new Turbo with the Turbo S alloys, sports chrono pack, privacy glass, park assist, cruise control and sunroof for £120k, which is £10 000 off of list price. I am kind of thinking that as someone who isn't a massive "driver", getting the brand new one with the benefits of 3 years warranty, a better residual (hence it is a cheaper deal monthly) etc makes the most sense, when also taking into account how much of an upgrade it is from a 2009 plate Maserati, but I was keen to get a reality check as to whether there is anything huge I am missing out on not getting the S?
Thanks for any help and apologies for the long post!
Long time lurker and recently popped my posting cherry over in the supercar general forum. Long story short, I am looking to upgrade from a Maserati Granturismo MC Shift into something (a) quicker and (b) more modern - mine is a 2009 plate and I fancy something a bit newer and am beginning to feel the Masser despite all the things it does fantastically well, is a little behind the times in some technological aspects.
Whilst I have toyed with the idea of 458's, FF's etc I like the idea of something that is everyday usable and furthermore the car wont be garaged and I worry about having a red Ferrari on the driveway not far from a main road! Too much unwanted attention is pretty much guaranteed, going to save my Ferrari days for when I have a detached house with a garage.
So, having gone through a process of elimination I have arrived at the 911 Turbo being a sensible option - it offers a huge upgrade speed wise, looks incredible, is everyday usable and doesn't scream "look at me" like some of the options I have had to rule out.
My question to the seasoned Porsche experts (please forgive my ignorance, I am very new to Porsche and haven't particularly considered one at any point in life until now) pertains to the differences between the Turbo and the Turbo S. I dont see myself as an expert driver, i.e. I wont be tracking the car, I wont be power sliding round corners etc haha. I wanted to find out whether I am really missing out by NOT getting the S? Will the everyday user who sees a car as more something to like the look of and occasionally put their foot down get the benefit the extra amount of £'s suggests an S will bring?
As things stand a used Turbo S can be found at circa £118k give or take, that is a year or so old with 10 000 or so miles. A used Turbo with 3 - 4000 miles that is less than 6 months old can be found at about the same. Finally, I have the option to buy a brand new Turbo with the Turbo S alloys, sports chrono pack, privacy glass, park assist, cruise control and sunroof for £120k, which is £10 000 off of list price. I am kind of thinking that as someone who isn't a massive "driver", getting the brand new one with the benefits of 3 years warranty, a better residual (hence it is a cheaper deal monthly) etc makes the most sense, when also taking into account how much of an upgrade it is from a 2009 plate Maserati, but I was keen to get a reality check as to whether there is anything huge I am missing out on not getting the S?
Thanks for any help and apologies for the long post!
Hi Simon. Very much depends on what you want. There's very little difference between the two in terms of on road pace. The S is quicker but the std car is hardly shabby either. You do get quite a lot more kit on the S and of course it is an S, and for some that's the most important part of the ownership proposition.
What do you think would make you happiest? A 991C2S is quicker than your Maser, you'll still never get anywhere near its limits on the road, a turbo or turbo s is an absolute beast.
What do you think would make you happiest? A 991C2S is quicker than your Maser, you'll still never get anywhere near its limits on the road, a turbo or turbo s is an absolute beast.
simong800 said:
Hi all,
Long time lurker and recently popped my posting cherry over in the supercar general forum. Long story short, I am looking to upgrade from a Maserati Granturismo MC Shift into something (a) quicker and (b) more modern - mine is a 2009 plate and I fancy something a bit newer and am beginning to feel the Masser despite all the things it does fantastically well, is a little behind the times in some technological aspects.
Whilst I have toyed with the idea of 458's, FF's etc I like the idea of something that is everyday usable and furthermore the car wont be garaged and I worry about having a red Ferrari on the driveway not far from a main road! Too much unwanted attention is pretty much guaranteed, going to save my Ferrari days for when I have a detached house with a garage.
So, having gone through a process of elimination I have arrived at the 911 Turbo being a sensible option - it offers a huge upgrade speed wise, looks incredible, is everyday usable and doesn't scream "look at me" like some of the options I have had to rule out.
My question to the seasoned Porsche experts (please forgive my ignorance, I am very new to Porsche and haven't particularly considered one at any point in life until now) pertains to the differences between the Turbo and the Turbo S. I dont see myself as an expert driver, i.e. I wont be tracking the car, I wont be power sliding round corners etc haha. I wanted to find out whether I am really missing out by NOT getting the S? Will the everyday user who sees a car as more something to like the look of and occasionally put their foot down get the benefit the extra amount of £'s suggests an S will bring?
As things stand a used Turbo S can be found at circa £118k give or take, that is a year or so old with 10 000 or so miles. A used Turbo with 3 - 4000 miles that is less than 6 months old can be found at about the same. Finally, I have the option to buy a brand new Turbo with the Turbo S alloys, sports chrono pack, privacy glass, park assist, cruise control and sunroof for £120k, which is £10 000 off of list price. I am kind of thinking that as someone who isn't a massive "driver", getting the brand new one with the benefits of 3 years warranty, a better residual (hence it is a cheaper deal monthly) etc makes the most sense, when also taking into account how much of an upgrade it is from a 2009 plate Maserati, but I was keen to get a reality check as to whether there is anything huge I am missing out on not getting the S?
Thanks for any help and apologies for the long post!
I had a very similar decision to make just over a year ago, I was looking at new turbos and S's and due to the fact I was being quite impatient I decided to go with whichever came up first with the spec/discount I wanted. I ended up with non S and got a similar discount to what you've been offered.Long time lurker and recently popped my posting cherry over in the supercar general forum. Long story short, I am looking to upgrade from a Maserati Granturismo MC Shift into something (a) quicker and (b) more modern - mine is a 2009 plate and I fancy something a bit newer and am beginning to feel the Masser despite all the things it does fantastically well, is a little behind the times in some technological aspects.
Whilst I have toyed with the idea of 458's, FF's etc I like the idea of something that is everyday usable and furthermore the car wont be garaged and I worry about having a red Ferrari on the driveway not far from a main road! Too much unwanted attention is pretty much guaranteed, going to save my Ferrari days for when I have a detached house with a garage.
So, having gone through a process of elimination I have arrived at the 911 Turbo being a sensible option - it offers a huge upgrade speed wise, looks incredible, is everyday usable and doesn't scream "look at me" like some of the options I have had to rule out.
My question to the seasoned Porsche experts (please forgive my ignorance, I am very new to Porsche and haven't particularly considered one at any point in life until now) pertains to the differences between the Turbo and the Turbo S. I dont see myself as an expert driver, i.e. I wont be tracking the car, I wont be power sliding round corners etc haha. I wanted to find out whether I am really missing out by NOT getting the S? Will the everyday user who sees a car as more something to like the look of and occasionally put their foot down get the benefit the extra amount of £'s suggests an S will bring?
As things stand a used Turbo S can be found at circa £118k give or take, that is a year or so old with 10 000 or so miles. A used Turbo with 3 - 4000 miles that is less than 6 months old can be found at about the same. Finally, I have the option to buy a brand new Turbo with the Turbo S alloys, sports chrono pack, privacy glass, park assist, cruise control and sunroof for £120k, which is £10 000 off of list price. I am kind of thinking that as someone who isn't a massive "driver", getting the brand new one with the benefits of 3 years warranty, a better residual (hence it is a cheaper deal monthly) etc makes the most sense, when also taking into account how much of an upgrade it is from a 2009 plate Maserati, but I was keen to get a reality check as to whether there is anything huge I am missing out on not getting the S?
Thanks for any help and apologies for the long post!
I am now 16000 miles in and there is not a day goes by where I don't think its bonkers fast and totally capable yet exciting at the same time. It still impresses me every time I drive it and never feel like I missed out not getting the S.
From memory, with the S you are paying the extra for the ceramic discs, led lights, dynamic chasis, S wheels and a bit more power. As a daily driver I don't think the those extras are worth the 20k premium..
If you can I would try and drive a car with the dynamic chasis as the ride in my non dynamic car can be a little bumpy at times but even with this I am being ultra critical! (I've not tried a dynamic chassis car so have no idea if it's much different)
I think you are better taking the new car with discount as its cheaper than many of the used cars on the market, Plus you are the first owner with the full warranty etc..
Whatever you decide it will be a good choice, I'm simply stumped on what to replace mine with..
TP
"As things stand a used Turbo S can be found at circa £118k give or take, that is a year or so old with 10 000 or so miles. A used Turbo with 3 - 4000 miles that is less than 6 months old can be found at about the same."
If this is the case then it's S all the way. Come resale time, an S has greater draw and will bring in more.
Consider that 5 years down the line you are talking a nominal 6 mths difference in age, and 7k miles. Nothing really, but an S will still be an S.
If this is the case then it's S all the way. Come resale time, an S has greater draw and will bring in more.
Consider that 5 years down the line you are talking a nominal 6 mths difference in age, and 7k miles. Nothing really, but an S will still be an S.
J-P: cheers for the reply. I am inclined to agree that real world performance difference is probably negligible. From what I can make out the main bit I would definitely want on a non S is the sports chrono and the alloys, and this particular one has both. I don't think I am going to drive it thinking it is too slow, either S or non S would obliterate the Masser. I think the idea of getting one brand new is really appealing, bit of a life box ticked! Granted a new car is a sure fire way to a tonne of depreciation, but I was hoping the £10k off the list price would absorb a bit of the first year depreciation perhaps.....and the fact used ones are going at £3k/£4k less than this brand new one costs kind of makes me wonder if it will be "THAT" bad....
theplumber: thanks also for your comments, much appreciated. I think we are in the same boat - I didn't go into this particularly knowing which I wanted, and it just so happens the Porsche dealer nearest to me has a black and a white non s, both pre registered brand new so they're in a position to discount (btw I thought going into this that Porsche 100% do not discount??). Both have the same spec - sports chrono, sunroof, turbo s alloys etc - perfect. So being impatient I am thinking let's get cracking and pick one of these! For the sake of diligence thought I have come to piston heads for a sanity check :-)
Delighted to hear you aren't having a moment of regret, and as per my comment above I really can't see myself buying the non S and spending time in it wishing it was faster. I think the novelty of a new one would outweigh the benefits of the used S too. Can definitely live without the extra power, LED lights etc, the only problem is the dealer dont have a demonstrator for me to drive (of either!). They are sorting this week and hopefully will be getting into one on Weds. My Maserati has the sports handling pack, which is a firmer ride so I am keen to see how the 911 compares.
Are you in the market for a replacement on yours for now, or is that a hypothetical future problem? An FF has always appealed, they are starting to come into the realms of reasonable pricing as well on the used market! Also is yours white or black out of interest? Trying to decide between the 2, swaying towards white.....
996 : Valid point. Think I am going to get a quote on the S tomorrow (this isnt a cash purchase) and see how the residual is holding up based on the age and miles it has already done. It may be the higher original list means it is a better deal over the 3 years, in which case I will have a serious decision to make! I am kind of thinking the brand new one will have a better residual (60k based on 6000 miles per annum) and thus may be "cheaper" in terms of total cost of ownership, but will definitely weigh up how the S looks and see if it presents a curve ball.
theplumber: thanks also for your comments, much appreciated. I think we are in the same boat - I didn't go into this particularly knowing which I wanted, and it just so happens the Porsche dealer nearest to me has a black and a white non s, both pre registered brand new so they're in a position to discount (btw I thought going into this that Porsche 100% do not discount??). Both have the same spec - sports chrono, sunroof, turbo s alloys etc - perfect. So being impatient I am thinking let's get cracking and pick one of these! For the sake of diligence thought I have come to piston heads for a sanity check :-)
Delighted to hear you aren't having a moment of regret, and as per my comment above I really can't see myself buying the non S and spending time in it wishing it was faster. I think the novelty of a new one would outweigh the benefits of the used S too. Can definitely live without the extra power, LED lights etc, the only problem is the dealer dont have a demonstrator for me to drive (of either!). They are sorting this week and hopefully will be getting into one on Weds. My Maserati has the sports handling pack, which is a firmer ride so I am keen to see how the 911 compares.
Are you in the market for a replacement on yours for now, or is that a hypothetical future problem? An FF has always appealed, they are starting to come into the realms of reasonable pricing as well on the used market! Also is yours white or black out of interest? Trying to decide between the 2, swaying towards white.....
996 : Valid point. Think I am going to get a quote on the S tomorrow (this isnt a cash purchase) and see how the residual is holding up based on the age and miles it has already done. It may be the higher original list means it is a better deal over the 3 years, in which case I will have a serious decision to make! I am kind of thinking the brand new one will have a better residual (60k based on 6000 miles per annum) and thus may be "cheaper" in terms of total cost of ownership, but will definitely weigh up how the S looks and see if it presents a curve ball.
Well gents, after a test drive of the Turbo (not the S), I was utterly blown away. A huge upgrade from the Maserati performance wise. Pulled the trigger and pick up a brand new Turbo on Friday, can not wait - like a kid at Christmas! Thanks for the helpful pointers in the thread, very grateful!
Interesting article covering the 'S' vs the none 'S' some will agree others wont on the point covered...
http://jalopnik.com/how-porsche-created-the-911-tu...
http://jalopnik.com/how-porsche-created-the-911-tu...
I would say both are awesome cars but as already mentioned in the thread -the power is so huge with both you're unlikely to use most of it on the road .....without losing your license fairly quickly.
At the price point you are talking you could also consider a brand new 991 GTS - the naturally aspirated engine sounds fantastic in sports mode and without the fixed turbo rear spoiler many would argue the lines look better. At 430bhp even the GTS has far more power than you'd use on the road the majority of the time...
Also there's the point that soon all 911's made will have a turbo engine- the current 991 could be your last chance of a new NA engine and the GTS is the best currently available to order.
Couldn't quite justify the extra money for an S brand new and the choice then came down to used S versus brand new non S. Having never had a brand new car before, I had to do it! Bit of a life box ticked I suppose. I dont think I will miss the extra few HP but if I do then I can make up for it next time :-)
Interestingly as someone else posted the depreciation is a little worse on the S according to Porsche's own residual values given. Which seems strange!
Oh and I went for white, I think with the "S" alloys having quite a bit of black in them, the black side vents, the black of the panoramic/electric sunroof and the privacy glass it looks incredible!
Interestingly as someone else posted the depreciation is a little worse on the S according to Porsche's own residual values given. Which seems strange!
Oh and I went for white, I think with the "S" alloys having quite a bit of black in them, the black side vents, the black of the panoramic/electric sunroof and the privacy glass it looks incredible!
Discount was £11k give or take, still hoping to get him to throw in a keyring tomorrow ;-)
As an aside, how do Porsche charge £799 for GAP insurance (in fact my mate just bought a McLaren and they wanted £1200) when you can just go online and get it for £315?? The small print doesn't seem any different, quite baffling....
As an aside, how do Porsche charge £799 for GAP insurance (in fact my mate just bought a McLaren and they wanted £1200) when you can just go online and get it for £315?? The small print doesn't seem any different, quite baffling....
simong800 said:
As an aside, how do Porsche charge £799 for GAP insurance (in fact my mate just bought a McLaren and they wanted £1200) when you can just go online and get it for £315?? The small print doesn't seem any different, quite baffling....
lots of buyers with more than sense/knowledgecongratulations - put some pictures up
Edited by Adam B on Friday 29th May 00:08
kencom said:
I think when you are spending such a huge sum of money, just get the best.
I would always have a nagging doubt, that I wonder what the 'S' would really have been like!
As a Brucie Bonus, the 'S' should depreciate marginally less, so should cost less in the long run...
GET THE 'S''
I once got drawn in to the "Brand new" myth, having never had "Brand New" before, I spent months in eager anticipation. Then when the day came for the visit to the dealer, followed by the entire rest of the day driving around rural Derbyshire. Then home tuck it away safely in the garage and off to bed, and I spent all night thinking "The second hand car in my garage cost me an awful lot."I would always have a nagging doubt, that I wonder what the 'S' would really have been like!
As a Brucie Bonus, the 'S' should depreciate marginally less, so should cost less in the long run...
GET THE 'S''
No such thing as brand new. (Well there is, but it ends the second you drive off the forecourt)
Particularly when buying approved used, the standard of prep is huge (in my experience) and the Warranty give peace of mind.
Me? I'd have gone for the S, every day and twice on Sunday (I did in fact), I figured that is the only way I wouldn't think "What if?" later down the line.
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