Messerschmitt Bf 109

[Richjam]

Saw what appeared to be a Messerschmitt Bf 109 fly over oakham twice today (monday) I assume this would be a Merlin powered Buchon version? It sounded very different to a Spitfire more of a high pitched wine. Can anybody confirm if i'm right??

[Eric Mc]

Sounds likely that it was a Buchon. It does have a distinctive whine compared to (say) a Spitfire or a Hurricane. There are a couple of genuine Daimler Benz 109s about as well though.

[aeropilot]

Most likely a Merlin engine Buchon, but I know there are reports that EADS are flying over one of their DB605 engined a/c for Biggin Hill in June and Flying legends in July, but would think its unlikely that it's here already.

Haven't seen any reports that the Biggin based genuine 109E has taken to the air in the UK as yet (I think it's still in bits after being shipped over from Canada?)

Jerry Yagan's DB605 engined Buchon has just been finished by Meiermotors in Germany, and is about to undergo it's required 5 hours test flying before being shipped to the USA. There is a rumour that it might also appear at Legends as well before shipping to the USA, but I personally think that unlikely.

Edited by aeropilot on Wednesday 27th May 07:50

[Richjam]

Thanks for the replys it certainly sounded very nice. Out of interest why would a merlin engined 109 sound so much different to a merlin engined spitfire?

Edited by Richjam on Tuesday 26th May 19:09

[aeropilot]

Richjam said:

Thanks for the replys it certainly sounded very nice. Out of interest why would a merlin engined 109 sound so much different to a merlin engined spitfire?

And different to merlin engine P-51 etc. Different aerodynamic shapes and open intakes ports and holes all create different noises. Likely combination of exhaust stacks, aero and intake sounds.

[Eric Mc]

I've also heard that the position of the gun ports on the different aircraft can create varying sound effects.

[dr_gn]

aeropilot said:

Richjam said:

Thanks for the replys it certainly sounded very nice. Out of interest why would a merlin engined 109 sound so much different to a merlin engined spitfire?

And different to merlin engine P-51 etc. Different aerodynamic shapes and open intakes ports and holes all create different noises. Likely combination of exhaust stacks, aero and intake sounds.

Then again there are a variety of all those features on Merlin engined Spitfires, so it should, in theory, be difficult to define one sound. I think John Romain noted that the recently restored Spitfire Mk1 had a distinctly different sound to the other one he previously tested.

If you listen from about 0'45" in here (D-B engined 109):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cLmBZWDyBM

The sound is quite distinctive.

[Eric Mc]

Certainly a grumblier, thrashier noise - and you can hear that whining sound too - which leads me to believe it might be more airframe related rather than engine.

[aeropilot]

dr_gn said:

If you listen from about 0'45" in here (D-B engined 109):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cLmBZWDyBM

The sound is quite distinctive.

The DB is very different, so not really a comparison.

The DB makes a splendid noise, especially when taxiing, when you can really hear that distinctive supercharger whine. Will never forget the first time I heard 'Black 6' start up right in front of me at Duxford on the day it made it's first public display all those years ago.
Fabulous sound

[Richjam]

It definately had a very high pitched whine to it . But having not heard either before its difficult to say I suspect it must have been a Buchon it just sounded more like the one in the youtube video.

[dr_gn]

aeropilot said:

dr_gn said:

If you listen from about 0'45" in here (D-B engined 109):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cLmBZWDyBM

The sound is quite distinctive.

The DB is very different, so not really a comparison.

A comparison with what?

[aeropilot]

dr_gn said:

aeropilot said:

dr_gn said:

If you listen from about 0'45" in here (D-B engined 109):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cLmBZWDyBM

The sound is quite distinctive.

The DB is very different, so not really a comparison.

A comparison with what?

Different aircraft powered by the same engine.

i.e Spit, P-51, P-40, Buchon etc., all sound different with essentially the same Merlin engine fitted.

[aeropilot]

Richjam said:

It definately had a very high pitched whine to it .

There are two Buchon's that are airworthy in the UK and they both sound a little different....the non-Duxford based one (painted in North Africa desert sand scheme) does make a much more pronounced whine than the one based at Duxford.

See this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j9UUYSkFWU

[Richjam]

aeropilot said:

Richjam said:

It definately had a very high pitched whine to it .

There are two Buchon's that are airworthy in the UK and they both sound a little different....the non-Duxford based one (painted in North Africa desert sand scheme) does make a much more pronounced whine than the one based at Duxford.

See this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j9UUYSkFWU

Thats definately the one! Sand camo and the engine noise are spot on. Makes you wonder if its been twicked to sound more like a DB engined one. Thanks for sharing the vid.

[aeropilot]

Richjam said:

aeropilot said:

Richjam said:

It definately had a very high pitched whine to it .

There are two Buchon's that are airworthy in the UK and they both sound a little different....the non-Duxford based one (painted in North Africa desert sand scheme) does make a much more pronounced whine than the one based at Duxford.

See this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j9UUYSkFWU

Thats definately the one! Sand camo and the engine noise are spot on. Makes you wonder if its been twicked to sound more like a DB engined one. Thanks for sharing the vid.

More likely to have open gun ports - which usually accounts for the extra whine. The ex-TFC P-51 (now with Maurice Hammond I think) has a very pronounced high pitched whistle due to the open gun ports that other P-51's don't have.