Jogger killed by cyclist
Discussion
Kermit power said:
blinkythefish said:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_pub...
Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
Don't bother... He's not going to be happy until he starts seeing cyclists prosecuted for causing death by dangerous cycling, and he's not going to let a little thing like no cyclists actually killing people through dangerous cycling get in his way!! Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
I don't think you can count how many burglaries happen by the amount of burglars convicted which is what younseem to be doing with dangerous/careless cycling.
you can't say nobody has died from dangerous cycling based on either convictions or news reports untill the authorities start to take the matter seriously and start persuing people.
I just noticed another thread where in a sad and terrible accident a cyclist died and a lorry driver convicted of causing death by careless driving, the sad part is that the cyclist was just as careless if not more so for putting himself in harms way and a position he could not retreat from.
blinkythefish said:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_pub...
Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
I can't remember the last time I spotted a road nose to tail with cyclists, Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
Completely pointless stat, a bit like this thread R.I.P to the poor chap that died
Cars and bikes don't mix neither do they with vans and lorrys,anybody thinking that over a ton of metal isn't going to hurt
Shouldn't be riding a pushbike, no matter who is right or wrong you won't win on a push bike you'll just end up hurt or dead.
It's almost as bad as people trying to overtake lorries in cars coming off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway, then moan because they have been crushed against the central reservation by the lorry, I ride to work and ride the small first part on the footpath then all common land for me, fook riding on the road in a city its almost committing suicide IMO
NoNeed said:
Kermit power said:
blinkythefish said:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_pub...
Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
Don't bother... He's not going to be happy until he starts seeing cyclists prosecuted for causing death by dangerous cycling, and he's not going to let a little thing like no cyclists actually killing people through dangerous cycling get in his way!! Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
I don't think you can count how many burglaries happen by the amount of burglars convicted which is what younseem to be doing with dangerous/careless cycling.
you can't say nobody has died from dangerous cycling based on either convictions or news reports untill the authorities start to take the matter seriously and start persuing people.
I just noticed another thread where in a sad and terrible accident a cyclist died and a lorry driver convicted of causing death by careless driving, the sad part is that the cyclist was just as careless if not more so for putting himself in harms way and a position he could not retreat from.
So after the many viewpoints following some of the BBC's finest journalism...In other news.
"It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
"It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
NoNeed said:
Kermit power said:
blinkythefish said:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_pub...
Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
Don't bother... He's not going to be happy until he starts seeing cyclists prosecuted for causing death by dangerous cycling, and he's not going to let a little thing like no cyclists actually killing people through dangerous cycling get in his way!! Pedestrian deaths caused by cycling from 2009-2013 years: 14.
Pedestrian deaths caused by motor vehicles from 2009-2013 years: 1837.
Do you want to take a guess why the traffic laws appear to be for motorised vehicles? Seems they aren't effective enough. Perhaps when the death rate gets within 1 order of magnitude it'll be time to focus on the carnage cause by the bikes.
I don't think you can count how many burglaries happen by the amount of burglars convicted which is what younseem to be doing with dangerous/careless cycling.
you can't say nobody has died from dangerous cycling based on either convictions or news reports untill the authorities start to take the matter seriously and start persuing people.
I just noticed another thread where in a sad and terrible accident a cyclist died and a lorry driver convicted of causing death by careless driving, the sad part is that the cyclist was just as careless if not more so for putting himself in harms way and a position he could not retreat from.
You could almost make a case for this regarding burglaries because they are relatively frequent, percieved to be low grade crime and require a disproportionate ammount of resources to persue. I am not sure the same can be said of any fatality.
Do you have a specific case in mind where you think a death, attributed to a cyclist, has not been sufficiently investigated? I presume you must given your desire to charge at least one cyclist with death by dangerous cycling.
La Liga said:
The Met probably do the most cycling work given the density and volume. Whenever they do motoring or cycling enforcement (often both), the numbers of offences is large for both: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-256189...
The offence doesn't exist, so the answer is 0, regardless of those whose behaviour would amount to it. In terms of dangerous cycling, I believe the chap who hit and dragged the small child from the other thread has been reported for the offence (practically the same as a charge).
The law doesn't really cater for the minority of extreme incidents, as the cycling offences in the Road Traffic Act only carry fines as punishments IIRC. There is the option of assault and manslaughter, but these are rarely suitable, and an old offence from an Act in 1861 which covers, "drivers of carriages injuring persons by furious driving", is also rarely suitable.
There was talk a few years back of creating a 'death by dangerous cycling offence', but I think the rarity of such incidents fitting the proposed legislation meant it didn't get any traction or justify being created.
Thank you, it is nice to see the police dealing with the problem wven if it is only london, hopefully they will start doing it nationwide soon.gazza285 said:
NoNeed said:
Remind me when the last cyclist was charged with causing death by dangerous cycling?
Remind me of the last cyclist that caused a death by dangerous cycling? The law doesn't really cater for the minority of extreme incidents, as the cycling offences in the Road Traffic Act only carry fines as punishments IIRC. There is the option of assault and manslaughter, but these are rarely suitable, and an old offence from an Act in 1861 which covers, "drivers of carriages injuring persons by furious driving", is also rarely suitable.
There was talk a few years back of creating a 'death by dangerous cycling offence', but I think the rarity of such incidents fitting the proposed legislation meant it didn't get any traction or justify being created.
bigdom said:
So after the many viewpoints following some of the BBC's finest journalism...In other news.
"It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
Interesting reaction by the Police. What happened to being expected to drive (ride) at a speed that was commensurate to the road (footpath) conditions and which would allow you to stop/manoeuvre in the event something unexpected happening? Does that not apply to cyclists? Or does being "really upset" act as a get out of jail free card for cyclists? "It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
I suspect that Police have decided to "fight the battle they can win" and prosecuting a cyclist for this kind of thing aint one of them.
I understand that in the mind of the cyclist, when a car hits someone on a bike it's always the car drivers fault. If the person subsequently dies then the driver will be charged. However if a bike rider hits somebody then its just an unfortunate accident..and if the person subsequently dies then the rider will be commiserated with as long as he is really really upset... A cynic might suggest that the riders angst in this case could just as easily be due to a bent brake lever - they are not cheap to replace these days you know!
So why am I writing such nonsense? Well some riders on here started it!
Mind you, perhaps I am not the most unbiased of posters - what with me being almost involved in a head on collision with another car as a result of being "waved on to overtake them" by a pair of cyclists on a country road....... they could see the other car coming, I could not until the last minute. The accident was narrowly avoided. My apologies to the other driver involved were profuse.. Meanwhile the offending cyclists were busy congratulating each other with high fives after their "prank" and laughing their heads off.
But fear not. I totally accept that responsibility for the safe conduct of my vehicle rests 100% with me. That I mistook the blokes in Lycra for human beings is entirely a lesson that I will not need to learn three times.
Three times? Ahh, yes, the first one was when a group of off road bikers decided to use a clearly marked, very narrow, very steep woodland footpath (cycling clearly prohibited on the signs on the gates at both ends) as their personal race track. My kids narrowly avoided being hit. My dog was less lucky. Actually, that is not quite true, my dog got out of the way in time but one rider decided to lash out with his foot as he went past at speed, kicking my poor animal in the head, so it was not unlucky, it was a deliberate act by the rider.....
The sooner the cycling community stops pointing at the (considerable ) faults of others before addressing their own shortcomings the better. Or do we really have to wait until "pedestrian deaths are an order of magnitude greater" before you guys recognise the problems you cause?
RIP to the victim in this tragic case.
andymadmak said:
bigdom said:
The sooner the cycling community stops pointing at the (considerable ) faults of others before addressing their own shortcomings the better. Or do we really have to wait until "pedestrian deaths are an order of magnitude greater" before you guys recognise the problems you cause?
RIP to the victim in this tragic case.
Didn't realise I was a "cyclist", I consider myself a road user. RIP to the victim in this tragic case.
I drive a few cars, ride a motorbike and also cycle. The original journalism was poor, and as mentioned it's a tragic accident, with no other facts than they collided on what appears to be a blind bend - there was a witness, so I'm sure all the correct procedures have taken place prior to the CPS deciding the course of action taken. It wouldn't take much to take either the cyclist or runner over, I see pedestrians bump into each other in London quite often someone ends up on their arse.
Head injuries and falls are (funny) things, someone can fall from 10 metres and be uninjured, someone else can fall off a step or two, and it's the end of their life. The runner was also a triathlete, which made him a cyclist, although that's going off on another tangent.
You've obviously been on the wrong end of a few idiots; it happens. Doesn't matter what you drive, ride or cycle - there's always idiots. I feel sorry for you that it's clouded your judgement to this extent, it must make for stressful journeys.
My thoughts are with his family and the person riding the bicycle, they both must be struggling to come to terms with the events of a chance meeting.
andymadmak said:
The sooner the cycling community stops pointing at the (considerable ) faults of others before addressing their own shortcomings the better.
It's not the "shortcomings of the cycling community" (if there even is such a thing) thats the problem, it's the shortcomings of people in general.Cyclists are just a cross section of the general population, you're going to find a lot of dicks riding bikes, not because riding a bike makes you a dick, or because the "cycling community" encourages like minded people to behave like dicks, but because in general, a sizeable percentage of people, are dicks.
There's no need for the mythical cycling community to address the shortcomings of its mythical members any more than PH members need to address the shortcomings of Barry in his modified saxo.
These PH cycling threads aren't about cyclists jumping to the defence of the indefensible, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of generalising people by their mode of transport.
mdavids said:
It's not the "shortcomings of the cycling community" (if there even is such a thing) thats the problem, it's the shortcomings of people in general.
Cyclists are just a cross section of the general population, you're going to find a lot of dicks riding bikes, not because riding a bike makes you a dick, or because the "cycling community" encourages like minded people to behave like dicks, but because in general, a sizeable percentage of people, are dicks.
There's no need for the mythical cycling community to address the shortcomings of its mythical members any more than PH members need to address the shortcomings of Barry in his modified saxo.
These PH cycling threads aren't about cyclists jumping to the defence of the indefensible, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of generalising people by their mode of transport.
brilliantly put!Cyclists are just a cross section of the general population, you're going to find a lot of dicks riding bikes, not because riding a bike makes you a dick, or because the "cycling community" encourages like minded people to behave like dicks, but because in general, a sizeable percentage of people, are dicks.
There's no need for the mythical cycling community to address the shortcomings of its mythical members any more than PH members need to address the shortcomings of Barry in his modified saxo.
These PH cycling threads aren't about cyclists jumping to the defence of the indefensible, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of generalising people by their mode of transport.
mdavids said:
It's not the "shortcomings of the cycling community" (if there even is such a thing) thats the problem, it's the shortcomings of people in general.
Cyclists are just a cross section of the general population, you're going to find a lot of dicks riding bikes, not because riding a bike makes you a dick, or because the "cycling community" encourages like minded people to behave like dicks, but because in general, a sizeable percentage of people, are dicks.
There's no need for the mythical cycling community to address the shortcomings of its mythical members any more than PH members need to address the shortcomings of Barry in his modified saxo.
These PH cycling threads aren't about cyclists jumping to the defence of the indefensible, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of generalising people by their mode of transport.
QuiteCyclists are just a cross section of the general population, you're going to find a lot of dicks riding bikes, not because riding a bike makes you a dick, or because the "cycling community" encourages like minded people to behave like dicks, but because in general, a sizeable percentage of people, are dicks.
There's no need for the mythical cycling community to address the shortcomings of its mythical members any more than PH members need to address the shortcomings of Barry in his modified saxo.
These PH cycling threads aren't about cyclists jumping to the defence of the indefensible, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy and stupidity of generalising people by their mode of transport.
bigdom said:
So after the many viewpoints following some of the BBC's finest journalism...In other news.
"It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
Terrible accident and deeply saddening news."It is understood Mr Craig collided with the cyclist on a stretch of path where the view was obscured, meaning neither saw each other until the last second.
A police spokeswoman confirmed no charges were being pressed in relation to the incident and said the cyclist had been left “absolutely devastated”.
Police Scotland’s Sergeant Gary Taylor said: “This was a tragic accident and our thoughts go to Peter’s family at this very sad time.”
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tribute...
Makes the third post on this thread seem rather stupid.
andymadmak said:
Interesting reaction by the Police. What happened to being expected to drive (ride) at a speed that was commensurate to the road (footpath) conditions and which would allow you to stop/manoeuvre in the event something unexpected happening? Does that not apply to cyclists? Or does being "really upset" act as a get out of jail free card for cyclists?
And how do you know that the bike was even still moving? Perhaps the runner fell over the stationary bicycle and hit his head? Maybe he was running too fast to stop in time?The police have decided it was a tragic accident, so unless you have any evidence of any wrongdoing why would you think otherwise?
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