Who pays for replacing breaking down doors?

[Collectingbrass]

I was watching one of those Police Camera shows tonight and they showed the arrest of a poor unfortunate promising footballer who had decided to diversify into the pharmaceutical retail business.

To cut a long story short he had not yet been able to secure a formal business premises and was using his mother's house as his secure store room. In order to confirm he was trading in something he ought not to have been and effect the arrest the police used the standard issue skeleton key to gain entry, sraight through quite a nice patio door.

Now my question is this: as the mother as house owner is innocent in this (it not yet being illegal to breed & raise scrotes but my day as dictator will come...) do the police / taxpayer pay to replace her door, or does she claim on her insurance?

[anonymous-user]

I was a housing officer for numerous years in a previous life and as you can imagine, social housing contains mostly scumbags, whose houses were raided by the police alarmingly often.

The general rule of thumb was that if there was any form of illegal activity discovered in the house upon entering, then it was up to the occupant/tenant to pay for the damage. This includes the police finding something they didn't intend to: for example they would raid a house for drugs, fine none, but instead discover a stolen bike, then this was 'good enough' and the tenant was billed by us the landlord for a new door.

If the police found nothing illegal then we would peruse the police for the cost of the damage.

The house owner/tenant would always be liable for the damage, even if it was a child/lodger/friend that 'caused' the raid.

Edited by NinjaPower on Tuesday 26th May 21:10

[Trevor450]

I've had it happen to a flat of mine. The first I knew was a call from the police stating I needed to repair my front door as they had smashed it in. After being threatened with legal action the police sent someone round at their cost and replaced the front door.

[Wings]

Trevor450 said:

I've had it happen to a flat of mine. The first I knew was a call from the police stating I needed to repair my front door as they had smashed it in. After being threatened with legal action the police sent someone round at their cost and replaced the front door.

As above, but in my case tenant decided to go off on holiday to Canada, without telling friends, who then reported to police friend gone missing. Police later paid for replacement door.

[ubbs]

Just last month this happened to one of my rentals, the lady that lived there was being visited by an "undesirable" (contravening her contract) who happened to have convictions of many sorts, anyway the police raided the property armed with a warrant which covered everything stolen property, drugs, SIM cards mobile phones and so on, they smashed the door off and searched the property and found nothing handed the tenant a letter saying nil seized, what pissed me off was the didn't inform me that they left it in a dangerous state ie they just jammed it shut "it's not down to us its yours and you're landlords problem" yeh right, so I had a new door fitted which cost £750 and sent them the bill which they've just confirmed they're paying,
Ubbs

[pork911]

my vague understanding was that if the police wished to resist paying for any of the damage they could invoke a very old constable act, the result of the raid is irrelevant and its nigh on impossible to prove there weren't acting on good faith on intelligence in further of their duties etc

[ubbs]

pork911 said:

my vague understanding was that if the police wished to resist paying for any of the damage they could invoke a very old constable act, the result of the raid is irrelevant and its nigh on impossible to prove there weren't acting on good faith on intelligence in further of their duties etc

I'm a member of the local council responsible landlord scheme, I asked them and they said basically if the police find anything illegal going on in the property they won't pay out, I've always supported the police in that area and I know they have a job to do but sometimes they can get it wrong

[ubbs]

pork911 said:

my vague understanding was that if the police wished to resist paying for any of the damage they could invoke a very old constable act, the result of the raid is irrelevant and its nigh on impossible to prove there weren't acting on good faith on intelligence in further of their duties etc

I'm a member of the local council responsible landlord scheme, I asked them and they said basically if the police find anything illegal going on in the property they won't pay out, I've always supported the police in that area and I know they have a job to do but sometimes they can get it wrong

[pork911]

ubbs said:

pork911 said:

my vague understanding was that if the police wished to resist paying for any of the damage they could invoke a very old constable act, the result of the raid is irrelevant and its nigh on impossible to prove there weren't acting on good faith on intelligence in further of their duties etc

I'm a member of the local council responsible landlord scheme, I asked them and they said basically if the police find anything illegal going on in the property they won't pay out, I've always supported the police in that area and I know they have a job to do but sometimes they can get it wrong

subject to getting the house number wrong not finding anything isn't due to a mistake

[Collectingbrass]

Thanks all, useful answers as ever.

[Smokehead]

I too happened to be watching that program and the same question went through my head.
Thanks chaps!

[AndyNetwork]

I work for a social landlord, and we have some of our maintenance team trained as locksmiths. We now get a call from the local police, where they say they are going to raid one of our properties, and to supply a locksmith to a particular car park. They are then escorted to the property, and open it without resulting to kicking the door in. Quite often gives the police an extra minute or two of surprise, as the door smashing hasn't woken the scrote.

Still get the occasional smashed door, but it doesn't cost us any more, as if it is found that there is illegal activity, the tenant pays, if the police smash a door in without requesting our assistance, and nothing is found, they pay.

[dacouch]

AndyNetwork said:

I work for a social landlord, and we have some of our maintenance team trained as locksmiths. We now get a call from the local police, where they say they are going to raid one of our properties, and to supply a locksmith to a particular car park. They are then escorted to the property, and open it without resulting to kicking the door in. Quite often gives the police an extra minute or two of surprise, as the door smashing hasn't woken the scrote.

Still get the occasional smashed door, but it doesn't cost us any more, as if it is found that there is illegal activity, the tenant pays, if the police smash a door in without requesting our assistance, and nothing is found, they pay.

Joined up thinking by a council, that's good to see

[AndyNetwork]

dacouch said:

AndyNetwork said:

I work for a social landlord, and we have some of our maintenance team trained as locksmiths. We now get a call from the local police, where they say they are going to raid one of our properties, and to supply a locksmith to a particular car park. They are then escorted to the property, and open it without resulting to kicking the door in. Quite often gives the police an extra minute or two of surprise, as the door smashing hasn't woken the scrote.

Still get the occasional smashed door, but it doesn't cost us any more, as if it is found that there is illegal activity, the tenant pays, if the police smash a door in without requesting our assistance, and nothing is found, they pay.

Joined up thinking by a council, that's good to see

Not for profit charity, we took over the council houses and they now have nothing much to do with them.

[Rangeroverover]

One of our local scrotes, fed up with having police to forcible entry went to the trouble of having his solicitor give local plod a key

[maurauth]

pork911 said:

subject to getting the house number wrong not finding anything isn't due to a mistake

What about if you annoyed your neighbour over the old fence/parking/wheelie bin argument etc and they decide to anonymously tip off the popo that pork911 is a fiendish drug smuggler and he keeps it all in his back bedroom, honest.

Pretty sure you'd be annoyed at footing the bill, but I guess they were acting as part of an investigation and not their fault they didn't find the crack, you must have moved it!

[jakesmith]

I remember one episode when they smashed the door and frame to bits, didn't find anything and then this policeman said "we try to save money by fixing it if we can, but to be honest my DIY skills are pretty much non-existant really", before spending about 20 seconds messing around with a screwdriver. Then they had to call a repair man in.

[jith]

NinjaPower said:

I was a housing officer for numerous years in a previous life and as you can imagine, social housing contains mostly scumbags,

Edited by NinjaPower on Tuesday 26th May 21:10

Talk about ludicrous generalisation!!

My experience is that there are just as many "scumbags" working in council offices. Utterly mindless morons cosseted by council salaries and the ability to skive off sick on full pay whenever it suits them while the rest of us subsidise this kind of nonsense by paying huge, inappropriate council tax bills. And completely unaccountable to those they should be serving.

We have some beautiful new social housing up here with very nice, normal people living in them.

There you go for generalisation. Hope it makes you think.

J

[wc98]

AndyNetwork said:

I work for a social landlord, and we have some of our maintenance team trained as locksmiths. We now get a call from the local police, where they say they are going to raid one of our properties, and to supply a locksmith to a particular car park. They are then escorted to the property, and open it without resulting to kicking the door in. Quite often gives the police an extra minute or two of surprise, as the door smashing hasn't woken the scrote.

Still get the occasional smashed door, but it doesn't cost us any more, as if it is found that there is illegal activity, the tenant pays, if the police smash a door in without requesting our assistance, and nothing is found, they pay.

my daughters boyfriend and his father have a joinery/glazing business . they work with the local police on raids,opening doors with minimal damage,and then repairing afterwards . apparently it can be quite interesting when there is deranged loon hanging out a window threatening to kill you whilst you are drilling his front door lock

[anonymous-user]

jith said:

NinjaPower said:

I was a housing officer for numerous years in a previous life and as you can imagine, social housing contains mostly scumbags,

Edited by NinjaPower on Tuesday 26th May 21:10

Talk about ludicrous generalisation!!

My experience is that there are just as many "scumbags" working in council offices. Utterly mindless morons cosseted by council salaries and the ability to skive off sick on full pay whenever it suits them while the rest of us subsidise this kind of nonsense by paying huge, inappropriate council tax bills. And completely unaccountable to those they should be serving.

We have some beautiful new social housing up here with very nice, normal people living in them.

There you go for generalisation. Hope it makes you think.

J

1) I've never worked for any council. Or any government department.

2) My comment was very, very much tongue in cheek.

3) I have used my extensive experience in Housing and leasehold management to provide a lot of (completely free) advice to members of PH and other forums on housing matters via email and lengthy phone calls - I merely mention this so that you realise I'm not just some moronic, lazy, overpaid skiver, and I actually like helping people.

4) During my years as a housing officer, I have truly seen some horrific things and experienced disgraceful and deceitful behaviour from tenants and leaseholders, many of whom would have been seen as 'a nice family' or 'a nice elderly couple'. I have been to houses and vomited upon entering due to the stench, I have seen poetry written in walls using human excrement and blood, I have seen things I don't even want to discuss. I have witnessed behaviour that you wouldn't think possible. All of this has helped shape my views of social housing residents.

Many residents are as decent as any other citizen, and the company I worked for was massive (65,000 houses) so they built many beautiful housing schemes for people.

My experience has soured me as it would anyone who has watched a whole scheme of brand new and beautiful rural houses be systematically trashed and ruined by the 'lifestyle' of 15 out of the 20 residents.

Even the residents who had debt-free rent accounts and were nice people, often lived like absolute pigs if you ever managed to get into their houses. It was shocking.

I wish to state that I met quite a number of people who never presented any trouble of any kind and kept their houses immaculate, but trust me, they made up about 30% of our customers. The rest all had issues of some kind.

I'm afraid social housing has a reputation that is slowly getting worse, which is sad because it's a time that we need more of it than ever.