High end aluminium bikes - Canyon, Rose or Cannondale?

High end aluminium bikes - Canyon, Rose or Cannondale?

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jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
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I'm debating a new bike and I think I've decided that aluminium probably suits me better than carbon. My budget is the equivalent of about £1,200 but thanks to the joys of 8% VAT it goes a bit further than in little old England.

For me light weight is more important than aero, most of my rides are about 40k with 800-1,000m of climbing spread across a couple of cat 3 or 4s and I'm far from powerfully built. I'm looking at a 52/36 chainset but will probably fit a 11-32 as a 'bail out' option for the high mountains. I want Ultegra (or SRAM Force) and circa 7kg weight in a 56 or 57 frame size and at the moment I think I've narrowed it down to the following:

Canyon Ultimate AL SLX 9.0 - we get a limited range of Canyon bikes here due to a trademark dispute, and they don't actually say 'Canyon' on them anywhere. The spec is great (full Ultegra, Mavic Ksyrium Elite S WTS wheels) but the frame isn't as nicely finished as the CAAD

Cannondale CAAD 10 Ultegra - I can buy from my LBS which is a big plus. Spec is similar but not quite as good with a Cannondale chainset running FSA rings and Aksium wheels. The frame is better finished with smooth welds but the price is almost £200 more than the Ultimate

Rose Xeon RS-3000 - basically the same spec as the Canyon. It's easier to tweak (I can order it with a 11-32 cassette) and there are more options for wheels, finishing kit etc, but I get the feeling it's probably not as good a bike as the Canyon. Price is about the same but I think this one is in third place for the moment.

As an alternative for about £100 more than the CAAD I could have a carbon Canyon Ultimate SL in the same spec as the alu one, but then we're starting to get into budget creep territory...

What does the PH community think? I wanted to build up a Bowman Palace but it ends up costing much more than a built bike for the same spec. An Allez Smartweld isn't racy enough for me, Trek doesn't light my fire as a brand and the usual UK suspects like Planet X/Ribble/Dolan don't light my fire.

bakerstreet

4,755 posts

164 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
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Out of that list, I'd go Cannondale. Buying from a shop means you can have someone to take it back to if it all goes wrong.

Also, when you order from a shop, you can at least go and speak to someone if the order is late. I spent a long time on the phone to Planet X chasing my bike. They were a useless bunch of idiots. When I ordered the bike, I was told two weeks. It arrived 6 weeks from date of order frown

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
The price difference between the Canyon and CAAD isn't a big deal, but my concern is the wheels where the Canyon ones seem to be quite a lot better. If I put aside £2-300 for an upgrade the CAAD then becomes £1,500 against a little bit over £1,000 for the Ultimate AL which puts me into sub 7kg Ultimate CF territory with a bit of change.

Am I going to notice a big difference between Aksium and Ksyrium wheels?

Black can man

31,816 posts

167 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
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I have a Rose on order so i maybe possibly biased

Just in case you haven't seen this


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...


Be warned with Rose as excellent their service is, price & the way they do things , there is an approx 11 week wait for a new bike to be built & shipped.

Clothes & bits come in around 4 days.

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
A 11 week wait isn't going to happen that's for sure! I've mailed Canyon to ask about lead times, they also have a few older model AL frames built with Di2 which are within budget, but I'd have to go and collect it from Koblenz as they can't ship anything with Canyon stickers to me and I'm not keen on the 10 hour round trip...

Black can man

31,816 posts

167 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
You could do Rose & the Canyon place with an overnight stay ,


I really like the sound of that tbh.

Good luck fella.

Why can't Canyon ship with their stickers on ? seems awfully strange to me.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Build up the Palace with 11sp 105? Its a good groupset and for £300 its a bargain. Its most likely what I will build next. I cant see you noticing a real world difference between 105 and Ultegra and the frame has had rave reviews. Groupset pissing contests bore me senseless and you can always upgrade the 105 to DA over time and just skip Ultegra, its 11sp so all compatible.

Kenesis Aithen would also be worth a look too.

You can buy the CAAD10 frameset which is £700 and then build up that with 105 (accepting that you will need a BB adaptor though the Cannondale SI chainset is good, its not the SI SL2 gucci one piece job but its still fine).... add some nice wheels and all in will be around the price of the ultega off the peg bike with the only change being the money is spent on the parts that acutally matter....

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 27th May 10:10

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Canyon can't ship with their stickers on because someone else owns the trademark for 'Canyon' in Switzerland. As a result we get a limited range just branded as 'Ultimate' or 'Aeroroad' as per the one below:

https://www.purecycling.ch/roadbikes/bike.html?b=1...

On a similar note you can't buy an Apple Watch here as another company owns that trademark. It expires in December this year so the expectation is that they won't go on sale until then in CH.

Having played with 105 and Ultegra equipped bikes I prefer the feel of the higher end shifters. My current bike has SRAM Force (older 10 speed version) and to me the 105 feels a bit 'mushy' and the travel of the shift paddles is too long. Also, if I remember correctly there's about half a kilo difference in weight between the two so I'm pretty sure it's worth the £150 extra.

If I go for the Palace the frame is £565 delivered, then I need about £650 to cover Fulcrum 5 wheels, Ultegra groupset, a seatpost and a couple of other little bits from Wiggle. These prices are ex-VAT so adding circa 10% for tax and handling on arrival gets me to about £1,350 or about 2k CHF. That's more than the CAAD and 400 CHF more than the Canyon and I'm not convinced it's worth the extra.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
The weight difference between 11sp 105 and Ultegra is under 200g. I get the point about shifter feel though but as I ride 10sp Force too, I know that anything will have a softer throw feel in comparison.

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
pablo said:
The weight difference between 11sp 105 and Ultegra is under 200g. I get the point about shifter feel though but as I ride 10sp Force too, I know that anything will have a softer throw feel in comparison.
Fair enough, I thought it was more than that. Are the wheels on the Canyon much better than the ones on the CAAD? They're the main difference between the bikes, and the thing that puts the Canyon options above the CAAD and self-build options.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Yes the Ksyriums are better than the Aksiums and if weight is a major issue then thats at least a pound saved though I dont know many peopel who rate the Yksion tyres, I assume the Ksyriums will also be stiffer and roll better as I guess they are different hubs.

I am looking at the Palace because I wanted steep head/seat angles and a shortish head tube, I see the Canyon has fairly steep angles too though the head tube is quite long, the AL SLX is an odd bike on paper in that sense but I saw recently that its the frame RCUK have used for their alu race bike build where they considered most of the bikes you have already listed/been recommended so it must have some potential!

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
I'm not sure what I want in terms of frame, just that it needs to be more race than endurance and light. At the moment I have a carbon framed disc braked bike running carbon rims and Novatec hubs but I also have a steel commuter so want to get something lighter and more focused for proper rides, and someone has offered what I paid for the bike 18 months ago so I thought it might be a good time to upgrade.

I like the more 'boutique' nature of the Palace but I also like the VFM of the Canyon and the look and local-purchaseability of the CAAD 10, it's too hard to choose!

On the tyre front, I have some 25c Veloflex Masters which will go on whatever I buy so tyres aren't a concern.

Mr Will

13,719 posts

205 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Seen this one: https://www.canyon.com/en/outlet/list.html?utm_sou...

11 speed DI2 for just over £1200...

jamiebae

Original Poster:

6,245 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Mr Will said:
Seen this one: https://www.canyon.com/en/outlet/list.html?utm_sou...

11 speed DI2 for just over £1200...
Yeah, looks good but they won't ship it to me, so I have to get it sent to a friend in Germany or collect it in person, which means paying German tax (11% more) but even then it's still tempting.

Does anyone know the difference between the 2013 frameset and the current one?

Gruffy

7,212 posts

258 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
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I'd be planning a little visit to your German friend and picking up a Di2 Canyon. That's next level VFM.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Wednesday 27th May 2015
quotequote all
Cannondale of the three. They have the most experience in alu. And they are the only brand of the three that would really qualify as high-end. Would also go for a Chrous groupset.

Dizeee

18,172 posts

205 months

Thursday 28th May 2015
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Disagree.

Canyon have already made serious waves. Anyone on a Canyon knows what they are doing, more or less.

Cannondale are great, but Canyon offers something incomparable.

I am Italian in terms of choice through and through, but the next stop would only be Canyon for me.


bakerstreet

4,755 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th May 2015
quotequote all
jamiebae said:
Canyon can't ship with their stickers on because someone else owns the trademark for 'Canyon' in Switzerland. As a result we get a limited range just branded as 'Ultimate' or 'Aeroroad' as per the one below:

https://www.purecycling.ch/roadbikes/bike.html?b=1...

On a similar note you can't buy an Apple Watch here as another company owns that trademark. It expires in December this year so the expectation is that they won't go on sale until then in CH.

Having played with 105 and Ultegra equipped bikes I prefer the feel of the higher end shifters. My current bike has SRAM Force (older 10 speed version) and to me the 105 feels a bit 'mushy' and the travel of the shift paddles is too long. Also, if I remember correctly there's about half a kilo difference in weight between the two so I'm pretty sure it's worth the £150 extra.

If I go for the Palace the frame is £565 delivered, then I need about £650 to cover Fulcrum 5 wheels, Ultegra groupset, a seatpost and a couple of other little bits from Wiggle. These prices are ex-VAT so adding circa 10% for tax and handling on arrival gets me to about £1,350 or about 2k CHF. That's more than the CAAD and 400 CHF more than the Canyon and I'm not convinced it's worth the extra.
All shimano downshifts will feel a little sloppy compared to a SRAM downshift. I also run SRAM force and I much prefer it to the Shimano 105 I have on my CX bike. I do think that Ultegra offers more refined and smoother shifting compared to SRAM Force.Its quite hard to find bikes equipped with SRAM as standard. It doesn't help that the SRAM groupset is £100 more than Ultegra.

Its not half a kilo difference. You might see that difference between the top and the bottom of the range.

I've done the maths on building bikes compared to buying bikes off the shelf and it rarely works out to be cost effective, especially it you want decent wheels and finishing kit.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Thursday 28th May 2015
quotequote all
Dizeee said:
Disagree.

Canyon have already made serious waves. Anyone on a Canyon knows what they are doing, more or less.

Cannondale are great, but Canyon offers something incomparable.

I am Italian in terms of choice through and through, but the next stop would only be Canyon for me.
I think Canyon are a good value for the money, but your second sentence made me chuckle. Canyon is a huge seller here in Germany, and most of the riders have them set up like beach cruisers. smile


nickfrog

20,874 posts

216 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
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Yeah, Dale and Campag if you're a predictable brand snob !