Track days?

Author
Discussion

W12JFD

Original Poster:

377 posts

164 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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Hello Ultima Owners - very keen on the marque and a potential buyer with a few questions regarding the track:

Interested to know if anyone tracks their cars?

How do you fare with noise testing?

Is the car an enjoyable beast at the limit?

Is it as quick as the figures suggest - have you found many cars coming past you?

Is the fuel capacity sufficient to cover a decent amount of track time?

I'm speaking as a GT3 and Lotus 2 Eleven track driver / owner looking to move to a single and hopefully far, far madder car...perhaps the evolution?

I'm not too concerned with on the road manners as will simply be driving to and from tracks.

Thanks for your help


Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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If you just want a track car buy a trailer and a Radical or ex LMP car.

The Ultima is fun on track but is not in the same league as a purpose built race car.

As a road car there is very little that will be faster.



Paul

PS. I have used mine on track.

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Monday 8th June 2015
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As Paul says, if you want track only, get a track only car. An SR8 or 3 will be faster on track, despite being slower in a straight line. But, I think being that fast on track would be very frustrating as you'll always have cars slowing you down.

If you want a road car that's fantastic on track, a well set up Ultima is fantastic. only car that has passed me on track is a radical on slicks. Set up well, they can behave like big go karts, very enjoyable and forgiving.

Fuel capacity wise it's ok, but you won't get great economy on track. Personally, I would keep it n/a for track use, easier to manage heat.

If you're ever at Bedford autodrome whilst I'm there, I'd be happy to take you out. If you're used to GT3 track performance, I think you'd be impressed.smile

200Plus Club

10,668 posts

277 months

Tuesday 9th June 2015
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Have sent you a message op, have you considered a trackday GD lola T70 at all? Awesome fun, and built for trackday heaven :-)

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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Great cars but similar to Ultima and I think the same comments apply.

200Plus Club

10,668 posts

277 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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deadscoob said:
Great cars but similar to Ultima and I think the same comments apply.
sounded like the OP wanted a brilliant track car, thats what they are :-) coming from a GT3 or Lotus 211 i think he'd appreciate a real quick drivers track car, that will happily fly round all day without issue.

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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Misread the driving to and from track.

Yep Ultima and GD will be great for that. I'd suggest GD is better out of the box, Ultima equally competent with a few easy to include mods or options.

I'd suggest having a look at both, I've got an Ultima and am a big fan of GD, they have a great line up.

srreck

529 posts

260 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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A well prepared GTR for trackday use will give you a "Le Mans" feeling (specially in night driving) which you will not have in a Radical. I've had three Radical (a SR3 at home yet) and I will choose it only for pure competition purposes.


Edited by srreck on Wednesday 10th June 14:50

356Speedster

2,293 posts

230 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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You'd be well served to have a chat to those who do big track work... Jonny Mac is an absolute font of all knowledge, there isn't much he hasn't tried with is GTR race car. Granted that's about 10 steps past what you're probably planning, but his wisdom is vast.

I'm not a track we and have only done a handful of 15min "tasters" at a couple of tracks, but my feedback would be that you'd need to make a series of changes to even an optioned car, for it to properly work as a regular track toy. Longer wishbones (controversial, I know), springs, shocks, full rose joints, tyres, rose joints, geo will all need attention. You might even want to consider anti-roll bars & an LSD too. I'm happy to give my views / findings in more detail in a PM if you wish.

W12JFD

Original Poster:

377 posts

164 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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Many thanks for the very helpful replies - GD looks interesting but remain keen on closed cockpit for unruffled remaining (few) hairs.

Will be looking for a very track biased build and a degree of adjustability. Not concerned with outright mph beyond 150....

Factory visit next on list, will call them tomorrow- cheers!

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Wednesday 10th June 2015
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356Speedster said:
Longer wishbones (controversial, I know), springs, shocks, full rose joints, tyres, rose joints, geo will all need attention. You might even want to consider anti-roll bars & an LSD too.
This list is certainly a very good start. There are some more 'obvious' things like definitely going for the wing and splitter options which make things much better too.

Plenty of cooling is a must (for the engine, gearbox and brakes) so allow for plenty of scope for that in the build - it is a small car producing big power and therefore a lot of heat.

Jonny

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Thursday 11th June 2015
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You'll 100% need tyres smile

It's not difficult to make them work well as a track toy during build, just needs careful thought and planning.

On top of what is said above, good extraction of air helps hugely too


356Speedster

2,293 posts

230 months

Thursday 11th June 2015
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Tyres is a tricky one... due to the size of the rears your choice is, Pzero, Kumho or Michelin. I've never been able to get a Michelin (out of stock every time I've looked), but have tried the others. The Kumhos try to kill you on the road, the tram lining is that bad... and the Pzeros give up after 15mins of hard work frown I'm considering 19" rears to get a wider choice of tyres.

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Thursday 11th June 2015
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The kumhos are great on track, and definitely pretty bad on road. Motorway inside lanes, less than 12 degree c and heavy rain is an eye widening experience!!

But for track use, michelin ps2s are rubbish imo, still a good road tyre though.

Consider what Mark says - if you go for a 19" rear you then have the choice of michelin pilot sport cup2s, albeit in a slightly narrow width but it's a much much better all tound tyre than the kumhos.

My ideal spec for a track emphasised Ultima would have on top of standard:

Longer front wishbones
265 or 285 front tyres
Very light weight 18" front, 19" rear wheels
Full width front splitter
Side splitters/running boards
Modified front clam with vents
Opened up side pod vents
Modified rear clam with additional vents
Uprated hubs with larger bearings
Full width rear wing with elevated pylons
Tuned ls3/7 with 650hp
Short ratio gearbox, topspeed limited to 190 (pref sequential) and lsd
Gearbox cooler
Carbon disks and larger calipers
Modified rear floor with proper diffuser
Nonstandard wing mirrors so you can see properly
Porsche Motorsport driveshafts
Simple fuel system with in tank bosch 044
Decent harnesses, not the slow and difficult to adjust Williams
Obviously a quiet but free flowing exhaust so you can actually get on track days
Plumbed in fire extinguisher
Uprated air con

All the above is easy to do, other than diffuser. Would make an effective track toy





Racingroj

488 posts

162 months

Thursday 11th June 2015
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Interesting list Deadscoob.
Elevated pylons, have you done this and if so by how much, where from and cost. I'm thinking of doing this to get over the wing mirror problem.
Thanks
Roj

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Friday 12th June 2015
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Mine aren't elevated but the wing sits further back as its bigger than standard.

If you do trackdays and want better visibility I'd recommend getting rid of the standard mirrors which are hopeless and looking for a solution that gives good visibility without distracting, before changing the pylons. Even if the wing isn't there, the visibility provided by the standard mirrors isn't particularly good imo

Edited by deadscoob on Friday 12th June 08:07

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Friday 12th June 2015
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356Speedster said:
Tyres is a tricky one... due to the size of the rears your choice is, Pzero, Kumho or Michelin. I've never been able to get a Michelin (out of stock every time I've looked), but have tried the others. The Kumhos try to kill you on the road, the tram lining is that bad... and the Pzeros give up after 15mins of hard work frown I'm considering 19" rears to get a wider choice of tyres.
Factory has Michelins in stock.

W12JFD

Original Poster:

377 posts

164 months

Friday 12th June 2015
quotequote all
Thank you all for your help and time replying - its great that enthusiasts share knowledge so freely.

Having read the responses and emails I've concluded that I lack the technical knowledge, time and skills to get an Ultima properly set up for the track. I suspect I'd find the process frustrating rather than rewarding.

Ultima remains an itch I need to scratch, perhaps as a fun car when my wife stops nagging me about cluttering up the place with motors!

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Friday 12th June 2015
quotequote all
There are a few people out there that can help set it up or do a lot of work to your specific requirements, so you can do as little or as much as you like. PM me if you want more info

200Plus Club

10,668 posts

277 months

Friday 12th June 2015
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W12JFD said:
Thank you all for your help and time replying - its great that enthusiasts share knowledge so freely.

Having read the responses and emails I've concluded that I lack the technical knowledge, time and skills to get an Ultima properly set up for the track. I suspect I'd find the process frustrating rather than rewarding.

Ultima remains an itch I need to scratch, perhaps as a fun car when my wife stops nagging me about cluttering up the place with motors!
i wasnt being cheeky when i mentioned my GD, its already set up perfectly for trackdays and needs no work doing whatsoever, are you aware you can purchase a screen and roof for them if thats something you decided you need?
i wanted the period T70 spyder look without screen, but a full one with wiper and roof is now available. by all means message me if needed rather than on this thread.