RE: Promoted content: Audi RS3 'born restless' part I
Discussion
Glenn McMenamin said:
How can they be so different to drive when they're sharing the same chassis ?
THAT is the crux of the question right there and I think I have a potential solution...Housey said:
Sack your suspension, steering and braking engineers and steal some better ones.
..or at least drive these cars on other roads, not just German ones.Edited by Housey on Monday 22 June 14:18
It's laughable to see a beefed up but otherwise mundane family hatchback with zero motorsport provenance alongside an absolute legend of the rally world and cult classic and for Audi even hint that they share any of the same DNA. Use your heritage, thats fine, but at least make sure the car you're producing lives up to the hype otherwise you end up devaluing the heritage you're attempting to leverage.
Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Yea, if we have a point that differs to the content of the article why bother debating it on a debating forum. Road and track are very different, but over servoed brakes, bad damping, poor steering feel, lack of turn in precision and understeer that shows itself too quickly are not something you need a track for.
Housey - Have you driven the new RS3 yet?You seem to know an awful lot about how it drives.
I'll just wait here for the inevitable 'I don't need to' response.
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Yea, if we have a point that differs to the content of the article why bother debating it on a debating forum. Road and track are very different, but over servoed brakes, bad damping, poor steering feel, lack of turn in precision and understeer that shows itself too quickly are not something you need a track for.
Housey - Have you driven the new RS3 yet?You seem to know an awful lot about how it drives.
I'll just wait here for the inevitable 'I don't need to' response.
A non point if not I suggest.
hill79 said:
It's laughable to see a beefed up but otherwise mundane family hatchback with zero motorsport provenance alongside an absolute legend of the rally world and cult classic and for Audi even hint that they share any of the same DNA. Use your heritage, thats fine, but at least make sure the car you're producing lives up to the hype otherwise you end up devaluing the heritage you're attempting to leverage.
...and you know what, the Quattro always understeered like a bugger 
Glenn McMenamin said:
How can they be so different to drive when they're sharing the same chassis ?
Attribute targets that's why. On the great positioning graph of VAG, the Audi will sit in the 'High Performance', 'High Perceived Quality' area, and the VW will sit in the 'High performance', 'Involving Drive' area. It's done on purpose to make sure the cars appeal to different people.The average Audi customer will want the badge, and a premium, high quality interior and will care more about 'surefootedness' than 'throttle adjustability'. Also, 'sporty ride' which equates to 'rock solid with poor secondary damping' will be of importance, and I imagine you'll find that most will be relatively clueless when it comes to things like steering feel and chassis balance, but seriously clued up when it comes to where the brand sits in the 'keeping up with the Jones' ranking and the ability to quote marketing stuff about rally history and 'quattro technology' (Which is fairly ironic given the fact the Quattro means absolutely naff all as Audi's use off the shelf supplier technology).
The VW on the other hand can spend more of it's development budget on being a good drivers car. They're aware that people don't buy a VW for the brand image (at least at the R end of the range as it's 'just a Golf' to many), so they will need to appeal to other customers who value handling and performance over brand image and 'perceived' attributes (like the Audi driver who believes a rock solid ride means it's quick/handles well). So, to distance the Golf from the Audi, more focus is placed on steering, throttle adjustability, driving impression over a B road than dashboard plastic quality and seat options.
Duncan McKay said:
Have you considered that Audi make cars for different people than you? Dynamically they are not the best sure, but "image over susbtance" and "consistently wrong"? I would agree only when talking dynamically. For almost every other aspect of the car, they make bloody good cars.
You are forgetting this is being reviewed on Pistonheads, not Mumsnet.n4aat said:
Duncan McKay said:
Have you considered that Audi make cars for different people than you? Dynamically they are not the best sure, but "image over susbtance" and "consistently wrong"? I would agree only when talking dynamically. For almost every other aspect of the car, they make bloody good cars.
You are forgetting this is being reviewed on Pistonheads, not Mumsnet.RacerMike said:
Glenn McMenamin said:
How can they be so different to drive when they're sharing the same chassis ?
Attribute targets that's why. On the great positioning graph of VAG, the Audi will sit in the 'High Performance', 'High Perceived Quality' area, and the VW will sit in the 'High performance', 'Involving Drive' area. It's done on purpose to make sure the cars appeal to different people.The average Audi customer will want the badge, and a premium, high quality interior and will care more about 'surefootedness' than 'throttle adjustability'. Also, 'sporty ride' which equates to 'rock solid with poor secondary damping' will be of importance, and I imagine you'll find that most will be relatively clueless when it comes to things like steering feel and chassis balance, but seriously clued up when it comes to where the brand sits in the 'keeping up with the Jones' ranking and the ability to quote marketing stuff about rally history and 'quattro technology' (Which is fairly ironic given the fact the Quattro means absolutely naff all as Audi's use off the shelf supplier technology).
The VW on the other hand can spend more of it's development budget on being a good drivers car. They're aware that people don't buy a VW for the brand image (at least at the R end of the range as it's 'just a Golf' to many), so they will need to appeal to other customers who value handling and performance over brand image and 'perceived' attributes (like the Audi driver who believes a rock solid ride means it's quick/handles well). So, to distance the Golf from the Audi, more focus is placed on steering, throttle adjustability, driving impression over a B road than dashboard plastic quality and seat options.
wideangle852 said:
. . All Audi RS3's across the country being recalled due to an oil pump issue . . requires new part . . out of all the launch vehicles for test drives in South West three cars have blown up . . I had my test drive cancelled to day at Reading Audi for this very reason
Not a problem even if true. Audi is already preparing "Promoted content: Audi RS3 'born restless'" part 4 through 8 to alleviate the potential marketing damage.Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Yea, if we have a point that differs to the content of the article why bother debating it on a debating forum. Road and track are very different, but over servoed brakes, bad damping, poor steering feel, lack of turn in precision and understeer that shows itself too quickly are not something you need a track for.
Housey - Have you driven the new RS3 yet?You seem to know an awful lot about how it drives.
I'll just wait here for the inevitable 'I don't need to' response.
A non point if not I suggest.
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Maldini35 said:
Housey said:
Yea, if we have a point that differs to the content of the article why bother debating it on a debating forum. Road and track are very different, but over servoed brakes, bad damping, poor steering feel, lack of turn in precision and understeer that shows itself too quickly are not something you need a track for.
Housey - Have you driven the new RS3 yet?You seem to know an awful lot about how it drives.
I'll just wait here for the inevitable 'I don't need to' response.
A non point if not I suggest.
Nords said:
Housey said:
So few words, so much more power
Unlike an RS4, which is 'so many cubes, so much less pwer?"...Wasn't yours one of the more powerful 377bhp ones? Ones that could just about pull the skin off a rice pudding?
Glenn McMenamin said:
I bought the wife the latest S3, as she drives like death, so I wanted something 4wd so at least it won't swap ends in the wet.
Volume RWD cars seem to have benign understeery chassis, most even mildly push-understeer under power. Never understood the link between RWD and wet weather issues. I know I am about to be called a driving god as this is binary PH but still...RacerMike said:
Attribute targets that's why. On the great positioning graph of VAG, the Audi will sit in the 'High Performance', 'High Perceived Quality' area, and the VW will sit in the 'High performance', 'Involving Drive' area. It's done on purpose to make sure the cars appeal to different people.
The average Audi customer will want the badge, and a premium, high quality interior and will care more about 'surefootedness' than 'throttle adjustability'. Also, 'sporty ride' which equates to 'rock solid with poor secondary damping' will be of importance, and I imagine you'll find that most will be relatively clueless when it comes to things like steering feel and chassis balance, but seriously clued up when it comes to where the brand sits in the 'keeping up with the Jones' ranking and the ability to quote marketing stuff about rally history and 'quattro technology' (Which is fairly ironic given the fact the Quattro means absolutely naff all as Audi's use off the shelf supplier technology).
The VW on the other hand can spend more of it's development budget on being a good drivers car. They're aware that people don't buy a VW for the brand image (at least at the R end of the range as it's 'just a Golf' to many), so they will need to appeal to other customers who value handling and performance over brand image and 'perceived' attributes (like the Audi driver who believes a rock solid ride means it's quick/handles well). So, to distance the Golf from the Audi, more focus is placed on steering, throttle adjustability, driving impression over a B road than dashboard plastic quality and seat options.
Completely this. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand. Audi drivers care about badges and statistics, not driving dynamics. They're fine with that and make cars accordingly. Plus, pieces of 4x2 are cheaper than actual shock absorbers and dampers. The average Audi customer will want the badge, and a premium, high quality interior and will care more about 'surefootedness' than 'throttle adjustability'. Also, 'sporty ride' which equates to 'rock solid with poor secondary damping' will be of importance, and I imagine you'll find that most will be relatively clueless when it comes to things like steering feel and chassis balance, but seriously clued up when it comes to where the brand sits in the 'keeping up with the Jones' ranking and the ability to quote marketing stuff about rally history and 'quattro technology' (Which is fairly ironic given the fact the Quattro means absolutely naff all as Audi's use off the shelf supplier technology).
The VW on the other hand can spend more of it's development budget on being a good drivers car. They're aware that people don't buy a VW for the brand image (at least at the R end of the range as it's 'just a Golf' to many), so they will need to appeal to other customers who value handling and performance over brand image and 'perceived' attributes (like the Audi driver who believes a rock solid ride means it's quick/handles well). So, to distance the Golf from the Audi, more focus is placed on steering, throttle adjustability, driving impression over a B road than dashboard plastic quality and seat options.
Car nerds* drive hot Audis. Driving enthusiasts buy hot VWs**.
* who must be young and have no fillings and some already fused vertebra from a snow boarding accident and no feel in their extremities due to frost bite in the same accident
** which does not by default mean VWs are the last word in driving dynamics.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 24th June 10:47
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