Lancia Beta Water Temperature/Thermostat problem?

Lancia Beta Water Temperature/Thermostat problem?

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BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Monday 15th June 2015
quotequote all
Hello all again,

Car cold starts fine, but water temperature gauge light is glowing warning me water is too hot, except is isn't...

Is this a duff thermostat? I'm assuming the thermostat is at bottom of radiator as well? Big nut and wire going into it.

Is that where the 'reading' of temp comes from that I see displayed on dashboard?

I've unconnected the wire from thermostat and it reads the same disconnected as connected (too hot).

One thing I will mention is that when I connected the battery up again I put it on wrong-way around for a couple of seconds, but everything works ok (he says!).

Tried swapping fuses, taking out all solenoids and putting back in again.

Have I messed something up, or is it the thermostat do we think?

Thanks for any help in advance!


Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Monday 15th June 2015
quotequote all
BlimeyCharlie said:
Hello all again,

Car cold starts fine, but water temperature gauge light is glowing warning me water is too hot, except is isn't...
How do you know if the gauge isn't working?

BlimeyCharlie said:
Is this a duff thermostat? I'm assuming the thermostat is at bottom of radiator as well? Big nut and wire going into it.
That is probably the temp sender for the rad fan.

BlimeyCharlie said:
Is that where the 'reading' of temp comes from that I see displayed on dashboard?
No, it probably comes from a sender unit screwed in between the spark plugs.

BlimeyCharlie said:
I've unconnected the wire from thermostat and it reads the same disconnected as connected (too hot).

One thing I will mention is that when I connected the battery up again I put it on wrong-way around for a couple of seconds, but everything works ok (he says!).

Tried swapping fuses, taking out all solenoids and putting back in again.

Have I messed something up, or is it the thermostat do we think?

Thanks for any help in advance!
The 'stat lives in a housing bolted to the end of the cylinder head, it could be the stat' stuck shut, but it's unusual. More likely a broken wire or faulty sender unit.

BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Monday 15th June 2015
quotequote all
Thank you kind Sir.

I guess my next question is how do I remedy this?
The gauge was working fine, and if I press the button on dash it shows the light, but needle goes much further into the 'red'.

When ignition switched on, it shows car too hot, even though car stone cold.

I ran the car up to temperature, with heater on, and parts of radiator not as hot as other pipes etc, leading me to conclude car thinks it is too hot, so acts accordingly...

Are we now looking at the 'things' that look like spark plugs but are not spark plugs?

I sound like a right fool, and I am.

Thanks again in advance!

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
BlimeyCharlie said:
Thank you kind Sir.

I guess my next question is how do I remedy this?
The gauge was working fine, and if I press the button on dash it shows the light, but needle goes much further into the 'red'.

When ignition switched on, it shows car too hot, even though car stone cold.

I ran the car up to temperature, with heater on, and parts of radiator not as hot as other pipes etc, leading me to conclude car thinks it is too hot, so acts accordingly...

Are we now looking at the 'things' that look like spark plugs but are not spark plugs?

I sound like a right fool, and I am.

Thanks again in advance!
Can you get a good picture of your cylinder head? Full width.

BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
Hello I'll take a photo in a minute, but I've made a breakthrough thanks to your advice about sender units etc.

The 2 sender units between spark plugs on top of cylinder head are where the problem appears to be, or more precisely the one nearest the cambelt end of head.

If I unplug the wire to that one, I have no warning light. If I plug wire in then I get a flickering light which then goes solid, indicating water too high.
Car not been started for 24 hours so of course stone cold.

I don't appear to have a 17mm socket (I think) to remove the actual unit from head, but that won't help as such today.

I'll take a photo and post anyway. Don't think it is wiring but can always test that.

Thanks again for your help but not solved it as such yet. See what you think to above findings if you don't mind.



Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Tuesday 16th June 2015
quotequote all
BlimeyCharlie said:
Hello I'll take a photo in a minute, but I've made a breakthrough thanks to your advice about sender units etc.

The 2 sender units between spark plugs on top of cylinder head are where the problem appears to be, or more precisely the one nearest the cambelt end of head.

If I unplug the wire to that one, I have no warning light. If I plug wire in then I get a flickering light which then goes solid, indicating water too high.
Car not been started for 24 hours so of course stone cold.

I don't appear to have a 17mm socket (I think) to remove the actual unit from head, but that won't help as such today.

I'll take a photo and post anyway. Don't think it is wiring but can always test that.

Thanks again for your help but not solved it as such yet. See what you think to above findings if you don't mind.
I'm an engine man, not Auto electrician so can't say much more really. Although i've done a few heads for the Betas I generally work the later (turbo) versions too, which whilst similar do have their differences. They are known in some circles as 'reverse flow' as the inlet and exhaust (in relation to the pulleys and thermostat) are on opposite sides.

Yours here:


The large hole on the R/H end is where the thermostat lives, the other two holes visible are for sender units, one for the gauge, the other one, dunno?! If it's got injection it's possibly a temp sender for that.

Later turbo version here:



There the holes are for gauge sender and knock sensor, sender for ECU is on thermostat housing.


It seems you've found the gauge sender so will have to work it from there (or give it to an auto-electrician). Are the wires on the right way, on the correct sender, are there any breaks, bad earth are the obvious places to start as well as have you blown anything by putting the battery leads on the wrong way.
DON'T unscrew the sender while there is water in the engine, it'll come out of the resulting hole and fill the top of the head/spark plug holes etc.

BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
quotequote all
Again, my sincere thanks for your time and help with this.

Your photo and explanation of the head makes sense with the photo there without the usual clutter of a working unit.

However, it appears to have cured itself...famous last words.

All I did was tap the unit with a hammer (via some wood and not too hard) and spray wd40 around where the unit sits in the head, hopefully to break any corrosion and establish a connection again.

Also charged the battery fully overnight before starting today. Flickered to start with (light but not needle in the water temp gauge) then went out. Guage works as it should when you press the button to check gauges working too.

Car up to temp and all working as it should.

99% sure it is my fault with the battery being put on wrong the other day though, as seems too much of a coincidence.
I also cleaned all connectors I could find. so might just be a combination of things.

Also, I would have taken out the temp sender, certainly to inspect/swap with the other side if the same, but didn't have the correct socket size. Thanks for pointing out I would (yet again) cause more problems doing this!

Of course it could come back again tomorrow but at least I know a lot more now about thermostat etc, as couldn't find location via usual searches on the web.

Thanks again. If any changes I'll post on here, but may have been lucky this time.