New Fiat 500 1.2 - Slow to pick up and difficult to move off
Discussion
Hi all,
We picked up a new (delivery miles, pre-reg) Fiat 500 for Mrs9 with the 1.2 engine, a week or so ago.
The car is a lovely little thing, really, and we got a great deal.
However, there is just one problem - It's really hard pulling away smoothly and seems to bog down off the line.
It can make it a bit hairy at roundabouts and things where you're worried it'll stall and cars catch you up rapidly as you wait for the engine to pick up.
It almost feels like you need to rev to like 5k and dump the clutch every time you pull off!
Does anyone else have this 'problem'? Is it a case of 'they all do that sir'?
I know the NA 1.2 engine is never going to light the world on fire (and our other cars are all torquey) but it is 'hard work' from a standstill when warm and cold. It doesn't feel like anything mechanical is wrong, more like an engine mapping issue (if anything).
Of course, could be nothing and we just need to 'get used to it' but I've never been in any car that is as slow off the line or difficult to get away smoothly.
Thoughts?
We picked up a new (delivery miles, pre-reg) Fiat 500 for Mrs9 with the 1.2 engine, a week or so ago.
The car is a lovely little thing, really, and we got a great deal.
However, there is just one problem - It's really hard pulling away smoothly and seems to bog down off the line.
It can make it a bit hairy at roundabouts and things where you're worried it'll stall and cars catch you up rapidly as you wait for the engine to pick up.
It almost feels like you need to rev to like 5k and dump the clutch every time you pull off!
Does anyone else have this 'problem'? Is it a case of 'they all do that sir'?
I know the NA 1.2 engine is never going to light the world on fire (and our other cars are all torquey) but it is 'hard work' from a standstill when warm and cold. It doesn't feel like anything mechanical is wrong, more like an engine mapping issue (if anything).
Of course, could be nothing and we just need to 'get used to it' but I've never been in any car that is as slow off the line or difficult to get away smoothly.
Thoughts?
Edited by dom9 on Sunday 21st June 09:51
I had 'heard' of this but I thought it was a different engine for some reason!
What on Earth have they changed that makes it do this?
It really is frustrating and makes the car very 'difficult'!
If it is 'emissions related' as the article suggests, perhaps it could be a mapping issue?
Not sure what to do if there is no 'fix', really.
In which case I wonder if you can remap it? I know this is not normally done on a NA petrol, but it might provide the required Omph.
Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
bearman68 said:
In which case I wonder if you can remap it? I know this is not normally done on a NA petrol, but it might provide the required Omph.
Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
That's what I was thinking... If it was as simple as a remap though, you'd hope Fiat would do a recall or it would be readily available on the market. I can't think what they could change, mechanically, to create this behaviour.Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
Mrs9 has just watched the Watchdog piece... I suggested (it's only a week old) she commits this to the dealer in writing, in case it becomes really unbearable. She does a lot of stop-start driving (hence the small-engine city car) so the difficulty pulling away does get tiresome.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Check if the dealer has an exchange policy would be my suggestion as my understanding is it's a "feature" not a fault.
That seemed to be Fiat's response to the Watchdog piece but it's a big cop out. It's definitely a 'negative' and not something that appears easily driven around. Can't see the clutch lasting long being dumped every time you need to nip over a roundabout.It sounds like some dealers have exchanged cars but this is the spec and colour we wanted (lets face it, there will be loads of them available though)... I'll have a long chat with her about it, I think. Last thing I want or need is her getting T-boned on a roundabout.
dom9 said:
That seemed to be Fiat's response to the Watchdog piece but it's a big cop out. It's definitely a 'negative' and not something that appears easily driven around. Can't see the clutch lasting long being dumped every time you need to nip over a roundabout.
It sounds like some dealers have exchanged cars but this is the spec and colour we wanted (lets face it, there will be loads of them available though)... I'll have a long chat with her about it, I think. Last thing I want or need is her getting T-boned on a roundabout.
Of course it's a cop out, but respectfully it's something that I'd have thought a test drive would have uncovered so I'd expect the dealers take on it to simply be it's "as designed" and it just happens it's a poor design.It sounds like some dealers have exchanged cars but this is the spec and colour we wanted (lets face it, there will be loads of them available though)... I'll have a long chat with her about it, I think. Last thing I want or need is her getting T-boned on a roundabout.
I'd take it back under whatever exchange policy they have - can't see there is a "fix".
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Of course it's a cop out, but respectfully it's something that I'd have thought a test drive would have uncovered so I'd expect the dealers take on it to simply be it's "as designed" and it just happens it's a poor design.
I'd take it back under whatever exchange policy they have - can't see there is a "fix".
Have you driven one extensively? To be fair, my missus isn't the most experienced in a multitude of cars and did the test drive herself. It's not something you 'realise' is a feature until you have driven it a fair bit (it has done 100 miles or so now) and realize that no matter how you adapt your driving style, it doesn't go away. I'd take it back under whatever exchange policy they have - can't see there is a "fix".
On a short test drive, you would probably just think you did a poor launch and could do better next time. It's only once you've pulled away at a roundabout a couple of dozen times you realize that it ain't going away.
Ok, well, thanks for the heads-up that it is a well known and much complained about 'problem' that has been confirmed by the 'professionals'. It gives us something to chew over.
No I haven't driven one, and it wasn't a criticism I'm simply saying it as I think the dealer and Fiat would say it - it might be crap but there's nothing "wrong" with it, it's just a bad design vs. faulty.
I'm not excusing it, just calling it as I see it - I think your options come down to live with it or return it and it'll be a lot easier to do that under an exchange period than it will arguing whether it's fit for purpose.
I'm not excusing it, just calling it as I see it - I think your options come down to live with it or return it and it'll be a lot easier to do that under an exchange period than it will arguing whether it's fit for purpose.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No I haven't driven one...
Sorry mate - That may have sounded like I was doing the usual PH thing of calling someone out for not driving a car. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to know if anyone really noticed on a test drive (instead of thinking it was their fault, needing to get used to the car) or it's something you really notice over time, once you've tried every adjustment to your driving style.With them selling so many, I guess it is something you 'realise' after a while. I just had a little run out in it and it seemed 'ok' if you're quite aggressive with it on the flat but hills are definitely difficult. Might 'note' it with the dealer and maybe that gets added to the pile of complaints with Fiat, which may mean they offer a reflash or something at some point.
Cheers all - appreciated.
Pure speculation but if this is due to retuning in order to achieve Euro-6 compliance then Fiat are going to do diddly squat to prejudice that.
Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
FiF said:
Pure speculation but if this is due to retuning in order to achieve Euro-6 compliance then Fiat are going to do diddly squat to prejudice that.
Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
I was wondering whether they might wait until the model is replaced and then offer an 'upgrade' or recall, so as not to prejudice the car's official stats while it is on sale. They also don't want to be seen to 'give in' and admit there is a problem now, as well, I am sure.Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
Emissions and 'flat spot' scream 'mapping' to me, so hopefully it is a fairly cheap/ easy 'fix', if/ when it happens. Would be interested to know if any other PHers have one and what their thoughts are!?
dom9 said:
I just had a little run out in it and it seemed 'ok' if you're quite aggressive with it on the flat but hills are definitely difficult.
I have the same EURO 6 engine in a Panda and it's the exact same up a hill, I'm sure it's just down to the car not being massively powerful. A downshift + full throttle is the way to get up hills. Yadizzle1 said:
I have the same EURO 6 engine in a Panda and it's the exact same up a hill, I'm sure it's just down to the car not being massively powerful. A downshift + full throttle is the way to get up hills.
Yeah, we accept we have to change down going up hills but the issue is how close you get to stalling on hill starts in 1st gear. Thankfully Lucy has a fairly flat run up and down the A3 every day so she is 'ok' with it. I told her a supercharger would solve all these problems 
FIAT have issued an ECU update and an ESC update is apparently due very soon in an attempt to address the issue.
From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
Edited by BristolRich on Friday 26th June 11:44
BristolRich said:
FIAT have issued an ECU update and an ESC update is apparently due very soon in an attempt to address the issue.
From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
Do you have a source to quote or bulletin to quote to the dealer for this?From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
Edited by BristolRich on Friday 26th June 11:44
Reading around there seems to be a procedure you need to undertake...
You need to (unfortunately) initiate a case with Fiat UK. They assign you a case number...
You then wait for them to suggest a fix (after waiting a while for them to contact you)....
You then toddle off to your local dealer for them (with case number) to undertake the fix. They need to contact Fiat for the authorisation codes. I believe without the initial contact the dealer won't do the work or at least it prolong any progress. (Fiat are apparently doing it this way to understand the scale of the problem)
It appears the sequence of events is unless Fiat UK advise you otherwise...
Clutch Sensor position replacement
ECU update - update dealing with idle control and emissions
ESC update - doesn't appear to be out yet or it wasn't two weeks ago.
FIAT Forum has 118 pages of it...trouble is it the majority is whinges about FIATs attitude instead of what the technical resolution is...
You need to (unfortunately) initiate a case with Fiat UK. They assign you a case number...
You then wait for them to suggest a fix (after waiting a while for them to contact you)....
You then toddle off to your local dealer for them (with case number) to undertake the fix. They need to contact Fiat for the authorisation codes. I believe without the initial contact the dealer won't do the work or at least it prolong any progress. (Fiat are apparently doing it this way to understand the scale of the problem)
It appears the sequence of events is unless Fiat UK advise you otherwise...
Clutch Sensor position replacement
ECU update - update dealing with idle control and emissions
ESC update - doesn't appear to be out yet or it wasn't two weeks ago.
FIAT Forum has 118 pages of it...trouble is it the majority is whinges about FIATs attitude instead of what the technical resolution is...
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