Cyclist "doored" by car passenger - input and advice please!
Discussion
Bit of a convoluted situation here so please bear with me!
Last week, my OH was witness to an incident involving two other people from her work and is wondering what the legal positions of the various parties is.
Scenario: Line of cars leaving an industrial estate at the end of the working day, queued in a side road waiting to turn right onto the main road out of the estate. Male colleague (driver) and female colleague (passenger) are second back from the give way line, my OH is one car back from them.
Guy who also works on the estate (but different company) is legitimately filtering past the line of queued traffic on the left of the cars at normal commuter speed - not walking pace, but not TdF speed either. Without warning, the passenger decides to exit the vehicle and opens the door into his path. He goes over the door and onto the foot-high concrete kerb/grass verge like a sack of bricks.
Passenger just stands there not doing anything to help the guy, driver pulls the car forwards and out of the way, not really knowing what to do either. My OH pulls her car in behind, hazards on, gets out and assists the cyclist, who is obviously quite hurt but trying not to show it - she tries to insist on calling him an ambulance but he he insists he only lives locally and will just get home and be ok. She gets his number and gives him hers as a witness and despite her protestations, he heads off. Passenger has walked off by this point and is nowhere to be seen. My OH speaks to the driver who is panicking as the passenger apparently simply decided to get out without giving him any indication or warnign that she was about to do so, so my OH advises him to call the police and report the incident asap, giving his side of events. She then gets back in her car and leaves the scene.
Later that evening she gets a call from the police - the cyclist went home and decided that hospital was indeed a good option. Two broken ribs, and the incident reported to the police. Police agree that driver not at fault as the passenger gave no warning of exiting the vehicle - had she done so, he would have pulled over to let her out.
Fast forward to this morning, female passenger is called into manager's office at work, denies all responsibility, claims she told the driver she was getting out and he ok'd it. Driver now worried that the cyclist will try to claim off his insurance and passenger (who caused everything) will skip away scot-free.
Bit of background: passenger has a history of not taking responsibility for her actions - after passing her test and not driving for two years, she buys a car and on the second day of ownership rammed into another car in the work car park. Several more incidents occur over the next few months (with her denying responsibility for all of them), culminating with her hitting a kerb and rolling the car onto its roof on the way into work because she was drinking a cup of coffee at the time (which she denied, but was corroborated by several witnessess as the police were involved).
So, is there anything the cyclist can do to make a claim against the passenger, and is there any way the driver can prove he had no warning of what the passenger was about to do and thus keep his slate clean?
Sorry for the rambling details, thanks for reading!
Last week, my OH was witness to an incident involving two other people from her work and is wondering what the legal positions of the various parties is.
Scenario: Line of cars leaving an industrial estate at the end of the working day, queued in a side road waiting to turn right onto the main road out of the estate. Male colleague (driver) and female colleague (passenger) are second back from the give way line, my OH is one car back from them.
Guy who also works on the estate (but different company) is legitimately filtering past the line of queued traffic on the left of the cars at normal commuter speed - not walking pace, but not TdF speed either. Without warning, the passenger decides to exit the vehicle and opens the door into his path. He goes over the door and onto the foot-high concrete kerb/grass verge like a sack of bricks.
Passenger just stands there not doing anything to help the guy, driver pulls the car forwards and out of the way, not really knowing what to do either. My OH pulls her car in behind, hazards on, gets out and assists the cyclist, who is obviously quite hurt but trying not to show it - she tries to insist on calling him an ambulance but he he insists he only lives locally and will just get home and be ok. She gets his number and gives him hers as a witness and despite her protestations, he heads off. Passenger has walked off by this point and is nowhere to be seen. My OH speaks to the driver who is panicking as the passenger apparently simply decided to get out without giving him any indication or warnign that she was about to do so, so my OH advises him to call the police and report the incident asap, giving his side of events. She then gets back in her car and leaves the scene.
Later that evening she gets a call from the police - the cyclist went home and decided that hospital was indeed a good option. Two broken ribs, and the incident reported to the police. Police agree that driver not at fault as the passenger gave no warning of exiting the vehicle - had she done so, he would have pulled over to let her out.
Fast forward to this morning, female passenger is called into manager's office at work, denies all responsibility, claims she told the driver she was getting out and he ok'd it. Driver now worried that the cyclist will try to claim off his insurance and passenger (who caused everything) will skip away scot-free.
Bit of background: passenger has a history of not taking responsibility for her actions - after passing her test and not driving for two years, she buys a car and on the second day of ownership rammed into another car in the work car park. Several more incidents occur over the next few months (with her denying responsibility for all of them), culminating with her hitting a kerb and rolling the car onto its roof on the way into work because she was drinking a cup of coffee at the time (which she denied, but was corroborated by several witnessess as the police were involved).
So, is there anything the cyclist can do to make a claim against the passenger, and is there any way the driver can prove he had no warning of what the passenger was about to do and thus keep his slate clean?
Sorry for the rambling details, thanks for reading!
Opening a car door into the path of another road user like that is a specific offence, and as the passenger was an adult they could be prosecuted for that. How she can claim to be blameless, even if she did tell the driver she was about to open the door, is beyond me. She's got her own eyes presumably.
I would think that the cyclist could indeed claim against the driver's insurance, but his insurance company would then have the option of claiming back their losses directly from the passenger.
Anyway, glad the cyclist wasn't very seriously hurt - could have been a lot worse.
I would think that the cyclist could indeed claim against the driver's insurance, but his insurance company would then have the option of claiming back their losses directly from the passenger.
Anyway, glad the cyclist wasn't very seriously hurt - could have been a lot worse.
A friend of mine was passing a parked car when the driver opened the door. He came off injured his shoulder and damaging my bike(I'd loaned it to him). As I remember he claimed off the drivers insurance. The Police looked into it with a view of charging the driver but in the end gave him a caution.
andym1603 said:
Used to be an offence under the Construction and use regulations. Not sure if it still is but passenger at fault there.
Section 42 of RTA 1988.So yes, C&U, specifically reg 105.
legislation said:
Opening of doors
105. No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.
Note that the offence is "injure or endanger" so technically just causing someone to suddenly swerve would be enough to be guilty of the offence, although it would be very unlikely to be charged without a collision, IMO.105. No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.
glad that the cyclist is relatively ok compared as to how it could have done.
i can't really help, but to be honest much as the passenger has this reputation, i'm not sure (unless it's a company vehicle or all 3 work for them) why the company have now got involved?
i guess i'm missing something?
i can't really help, but to be honest much as the passenger has this reputation, i'm not sure (unless it's a company vehicle or all 3 work for them) why the company have now got involved?
i guess i'm missing something?
g wow! Even if that was true does that absolve this ‘adult’ of blame in her head seriously?PurpleMoonlight said:
Isn't the driver held responsible for the actions of passengers?
Yep, if a passenger "drives by" a school with a machine gun and murders loads of kids then the driver goes to prison, no action against the passenger...Seriously get a clue, of course its the passengers fault.
gradeA said:
Fast forward to this morning, female passenger is called into manager's office at work, denies all responsibility, claims she told the driver she was getting out and he ok'd it.
Still the passenger's responsibility to open the door safely.gradeA said:
Driver now worried that the cyclist will try to claim off his insurance and passenger (who caused everything) will skip away scot-free.
That's pretty much how it will pan out, I'm afraid. Ultimately the passenger bears liability, but the car's insurance is required to cover the liabilities of anyone "using" it, not just the driver. If you read the small print of your own insurance policy then under the third party section it will probably say something to the effect of "we will also cover the liabilities of anyone getting into or out of your car". So his insurers will end up paying.gradeA said:
So, is there anything the cyclist can do to make a claim against the passenger, and is there any way the driver can prove he had no warning of what the passenger was about to do and thus keep his slate clean?
Not really. Ultimately if he's worried about keeping his insurance record clean he can avoid giving lifts to muppets who can't open doors safely, just as he wouldn't let muppets who can't drive safely drive his car. (Similarly, you lose your no claims bonus if your named driver causes an accident, even though you may be personally blameless.) Unfortunately it's a bit late to give that advice.PurpleMoonlight said:
Isn't the driver held responsible for the actions of passengers?
No - not unless the driver himself was negligent (maybe by failing to supervise a child properly, or by shouting "yes it's clear, open the door").But as above the car insurance will cover the liabilities of the passenger, regardless of whether the driver is also liable.
I'd like to blame the cyclist here for 'filtering' but am struggling. I do wonder just how fast he was 'filtering' past traffic to do that sort of damage to himself.
Ultimately I suspect that the vehicle is insured third party and he should be claiming against the driver as he hit the door of the car. His insurance company could then look at recovering the cost from the passenger, but probably will not (even if the policy allows it).
Ultimately I suspect that the vehicle is insured third party and he should be claiming against the driver as he hit the door of the car. His insurance company could then look at recovering the cost from the passenger, but probably will not (even if the policy allows it).
Foliage said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Isn't the driver held responsible for the actions of passengers?
Yep, if a passenger "drives by" a school with a machine gun and murders loads of kids then the driver goes to prison, no action against the passenger...Seriously get a clue, of course its the passengers fault.
surveyor said:
I'd like to blame the cyclist here for 'filtering' but am struggling. I do wonder just how fast he was 'filtering' past traffic to do that sort of damage to himself.
Why would you like to blame the cyclist?As for how fast to hurt himself, not very, depending on how open the door was when he hit it. He's hit a three inch wide strip of solidly supported metal with at least a tonne behind it, not forgetting the leading edge, possibly straight into the chest area, 10mph would be enough.
gazza285 said:
surveyor said:
I'd like to blame the cyclist here for 'filtering' but am struggling. I do wonder just how fast he was 'filtering' past traffic to do that sort of damage to himself.
Why would you like to blame the cyclist?As for how fast to hurt himself, not very, depending on how open the door was when he hit it. He's hit a three inch wide strip of solidly supported metal with at least a tonne behind it, not forgetting the leading edge, possibly straight into the chest area, 10mph would be enough.
gradeA said:
So, is there anything the cyclist can do to make a claim against the passenger, and is there any way the driver can prove he had no warning of what the passenger was about to do and thus keep his slate clean?
Practical issues:1) The passenger will lie.
2) The driver will have to give insurance details to the cyclist.
3) If I was a cyclist, I would not seek damages from someone who is not insured, I would seek it from someone who was.
The insurance company will then decide on the facts presented to them whether to pay out or not.
gradeA said:
Several more incidents occur over the next few months (with her denying responsibility for all of them), culminating with her hitting a kerb and rolling the car onto its roof on the way into work because she was drinking a cup of coffee at the time (which she denied, but was corroborated by several witnessess as the police were involved).
I like this bit, it sounds like asking a child with chocolate all round its mouth whether it ate the biscuits. "So madam were you drinking coffee?", "No officer", "Then what is that in your hair and all over your clothes..."surveyor said:
gazza285 said:
surveyor said:
I'd like to blame the cyclist here for 'filtering' but am struggling. I do wonder just how fast he was 'filtering' past traffic to do that sort of damage to himself.
Why would you like to blame the cyclist?As for how fast to hurt himself, not very, depending on how open the door was when he hit it. He's hit a three inch wide strip of solidly supported metal with at least a tonne behind it, not forgetting the leading edge, possibly straight into the chest area, 10mph would be enough.
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