One for the Legal bods - scummy company

One for the Legal bods - scummy company

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Doodlebug87

Original Poster:

188 posts

112 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Jasandjules said:
Does the letter inviting to a meeting state that a potential outcome is dismissal?
Does it mention Gross Misconduct at any point?
Yes it states that it may result in dismissal, however it does not state gross misconduct, instead being misconduct due to walking out of a sales meeting.

It is literally pathetic, but they see my wife as a commodity and she gets all of the emotional brunt - it's her career they are potentially ruining

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
Doodlebug87 said:
Yes it states that it may result in dismissal, however it does not state gross misconduct, instead being misconduct due to walking out of a sales meeting.

It is literally pathetic, but they see my wife as a commodity and she gets all of the emotional brunt - it's her career they are potentially ruining
Email me.

Doodlebug87

Original Poster:

188 posts

112 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
Just checked her contract and under the section "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states: "The company's disciplinary and grievance procedures are set out in the employee handbook". In the employee handbook under "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states that "No employee will be dismissed for a first breach of discipline except in the case of gross misconduct". Yet her letter states it may result in dismissal..... According to a legal mate if the contract refers to the procedures in the handbook, then procedures in the handbook are also legally binding and form part of the terms. This sounds logical, but can anyone reaffirm this?



elanfan

5,516 posts

226 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Doodlebug87 said:
Just checked her contract and under the section "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states: "The company's disciplinary and grievance procedures are set out in the employee handbook". In the employee handbook under "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states that "No employee will be dismissed for a first breach of discipline except in the case of gross misconduct". Yet her letter states it may result in dismissal..... According to a legal mate if the contract refers to the procedures in the handbook, then procedures in the handbook are also legally binding and form part of the terms. This sounds logical, but can anyone reaffirm this?
Keep this bit to yourselves ftb and if they do sack her you've got them by the short ones as they are clearly breaching their own rules and contract. Might be a nice little earner whilst your missus seeks alternate employment.

TIGA84

5,204 posts

230 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Doodlebug87 said:
Yes it states that it may result in dismissal, however it does not state gross misconduct, instead being misconduct due to walking out of a sales meeting.

It is literally pathetic, but they see my wife as a commodity and she gets all of the emotional brunt - it's her career they are potentially ruining
Walking out of a sales meeting because you're being shouted at isn't misconduct in any way, despite what they say.

They won't ruin her career I can promise you. Sales is about numbers and profits, not references. (19 years sales here..)


Terminator X

14,921 posts

203 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Which part of she's been there for less than 2 years so can be sacked at will are you all struggling with?

TX.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Terminator X said:
Which part of she's been there for less than 2 years so can be sacked at will are you all struggling with?

TX.
Oooh pick me, pick me....

edc

9,231 posts

250 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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The retribution aspect is always quite prevalent from the employee or relative side. The reality is even if she had been there 2 years and was successful in an unfair dismissal claim she likely doesn't want reinstatement and the monetary award will be insignificant especially if you say she is excellent and will walk into a new or better job. In that scenario her losses are so small.

Vroom101

828 posts

132 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Jasandjules said:
Terminator X said:
Which part of she's been there for less than 2 years so can be sacked at will are you all struggling with?

TX.
Oooh pick me, pick me....
Yes, you boy at the back. What have you got to say for yourself?

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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Vroom101 said:
Yes, you boy at the back. What have you got to say for yourself?
Thank you sir.

I would just like to repeat what I said on Thursday (25th).... There are limited grounds for an employee to take action with less than two years of employment... It is not however impossible.

edc

9,231 posts

250 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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Jasandjules said:
Vroom101 said:
Yes, you boy at the back. What have you got to say for yourself?
Thank you sir.

I would just like to repeat what I said on Thursday (25th).... There are limited grounds for an employee to take action with less than two years of employment... It is not however impossible.
From a process point of view you are of course right but from a practical point of view, and whilst some may see this as 'defeatist', it is rarely worth the bother. Save for a near cut and dried discrimination claim, and in this scenario of the disgruntled employee likely to walk into a similar job and will mitigate her losses almost completely. Not only that but if she is successful in getting a new role pronto, a few months into her new role she will be taking leave to attend tribunal and meet representatives to prepare the case. I have supported people and been on the employer side too and for the claimant it's often quite stressful and can be daunting knowing you must be prepared to be grilled sitting in a chair in front of a room of people you don't know. You probably also want some witness statements, which if those people are still working at your previous organisation they may be very reluctant to give or you may find that your dispute becomes common knowledge as other people are dragged in. If you succeed in what may only be a low value claim or all of your award and more will already be committed to fees, travel costs, lost wages not to mention the 'mental' cost.

I posted a few months ago on another similar thread a link to the Tribunal service website and it gives some eye opening data for numbers of claims, successful claims and the value of awards. You have next to no chance of getting a front page newspaper size claim. Typical claims barely reach 4 figures let alone 5.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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That is correct. If one can obtain an alternative role quickly (and for a similar salary) then losses are generally low.

In most cases neither party really wants a hearing (nor the associated costs) and so seek to settle.

Mr Classic

224 posts

118 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Take a union rep/ solicitor into the meeting with her?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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hr are there for the business and managers protection

edc

9,231 posts

250 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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The Spruce goose said:
hr are there for the business and managers protection
Of course that is true in the main. But often that means ensuring fairness in process, sufficient evidence to base decisions on, vetting decisions. This is all done to mitigate and potential post case fall out.

Like in any other area of business, sometimes you have to make a judgement call. That may mean deviating from normal process. It's all about understanding what the end goal is and getting there in an agreed way.

johnfm

13,668 posts

249 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Fvck all the legal stuff. She's better off out of there anyway.

I'd want a word with the "man" who shouted at my missus.




KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
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johnfm said:
I'd want a word with the "man" who shouted at my missus.
Sometimes business meetings can get a bit stressed and shouty... such is the nature of these positions and its perhaps an unavoidable negative aspect that comes along with the higher paid jobs. If you can't handle it then you might be better off in a lower paid, stress free job?

If you did turn up and cause some sort of problem with your wives boss, you're going a huge way towards making her unemployable imo.

There is zero chance I'd give a job to someone whos spouse had turned up at the office at their previous employer laugh

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
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swerni said:
How very victorian.
I'm amazed you'd let her out the kitchen wink
Happened twice at my old bank. Oddly, it was the same man....

First time, the bloke was very, very large, and was waiting outside. He ran back in and slept in the office... Oh, he really, really apologised for what he had said to the lady too...... Wisely.. No management took any action against the lady in question, nor did he try to complain - what can he say? I was guilty of gross misconduct and I want her to be punished for her husband coming to "have a word" with me about it?!?!

Second time was far more entertaining, he made a comment about a chap's wife and was dropped on the spot, one arm just struck out hard and fast. However, the director was standing about 6ft away, who suddenly developed deafness and blindness, for he said he heard and saw nothing biggrin I think that one was a broken nose/cheek, can't quite recall.



Doodlebug87

Original Poster:

188 posts

112 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Update....

My wife had a meeting on Friday and put her case forward. There are numerous references in the statements to aggression, people being scared and her doing nothing wrong / in retaliation to the tirade. She noted these and also made it clear she left the sales meeting essentially to cry and at no point was told not to leave. Result of this is that the company would investigate further, with her still being suspended on full pay.

Received a letter through the post today - she has been dismissed for gross misconduct, the reasoning being that she left the sales meeting resulting in a loss of trust and confidence. They also decided that there was no evidence to back up her grievance. She has been given 5 days to appeal.....

Absolute fking wkers. The of a sales director makes himself look stupid in front of everybody and gets my wife sacked as a result. We will be seeking legal action, will have to see what can be done....

Doodlebug87

Original Poster:

188 posts

112 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
We already have written statements from employee's provided by the company - there are at least a few which describe the guy as flying off the rail at my wife unprovoked and scaring everybody, resulting in my wife breaking down outside the meeting room. Being that she has been there less than two years, options are a little more limited by all accounts but there must be a way to get some justice, and if there is I will find it