Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
Tractor lad said:
Try a 335d if you can; only that and the 335i had non electric steering; it's really quite meaty. In fact a chap I know with a knackered arm is thinking of getting an aftermarket electric system fitted to his E92 335d. Might be partly because it has 19s though; mine was on 17s. I really rated the steering on it; tonnes more feedback than my M135i which has almost none.
I thought all the E90/E92 models had hydraulic power steering? It was the F30 that introduced ePAS wasn't it? I may be wrong. Incidentally, I've tried a few different E90s and most of them have much lighter steering than mine, perhaps the heavy steering was a feature of earlier models? It doesn't bother me that much, but I'd list it as a negative.The 335d is automatic transmission only sadly.
Not sure how relevant it is to the thread but have my 2p
I've owned my E91 for over a year and something like 22k miles. Jury is still out though.
I had a modified ( Engine and Suspension) MK4 Golf GTI with 240k miles on it before.
Things I like
Quiet
Refined
Bike fits in the boot under the cover
Wet roundabouts
Steering Wheel
Seats
Looks nice in M-Sport Clothes
The little flap in the undertray that makes oil changes easy
Space in the rear seats
Opening tailgate window
Things I don't like
One touch indicators - I often swear at these as I switch them left and right down the road trying to cancel
Flappy accelerator pedal, got no feel, not sure what it is but don't like it.
Seat adjusters - the levers are a s
t idea.
Window switches are about 2" too far forward so I keep opening the rear window,
Slow - compared to the Golf
The way it dies when manoeuvring, Rob tells me this is the clutch valve, whatever it is it's bloody annoying
Feels bigger than it is
Stereo and the fact it's tied to the car so difficult to replace with something up to date.
When I bought it I wanted something that was good on the motorway and fuel ( 100 mile/day commute ) but at the same time fun on the back roads without the need to modify it as I no longer have the time or money to do that. I've been a VAG man for years but not much fitted the bill, The Passat is dull and friends have had expensive reliability problems, A4 in my budget had similar reviews, so ultimately 320d was a good match on paper I'd say.
It's great on the Motorway although the clutch is heaving when in traffic. Cross country on the back roads ultimately the Golf was more fun, felt totally planted but it was wearing as when not "on it" the ride was pretty harsh to say the least, Much preferred the petrol engine. On the same roads at similar speeds the 320d is good but feels a lot more grown up and lacks the scruff of the neck fun feel the Golf had.
So I do like the 320d but if circumstances changed and I had a shorter commute I think it may go in favour of a MK5/6 GTI.
I've owned my E91 for over a year and something like 22k miles. Jury is still out though.
I had a modified ( Engine and Suspension) MK4 Golf GTI with 240k miles on it before.
Things I like
Quiet
Refined
Bike fits in the boot under the cover
Wet roundabouts
Steering Wheel
Seats
Looks nice in M-Sport Clothes
The little flap in the undertray that makes oil changes easy
Space in the rear seats
Opening tailgate window
Things I don't like
One touch indicators - I often swear at these as I switch them left and right down the road trying to cancel
Flappy accelerator pedal, got no feel, not sure what it is but don't like it.
Seat adjusters - the levers are a s
t idea.Window switches are about 2" too far forward so I keep opening the rear window,
Slow - compared to the Golf
The way it dies when manoeuvring, Rob tells me this is the clutch valve, whatever it is it's bloody annoying
Feels bigger than it is
Stereo and the fact it's tied to the car so difficult to replace with something up to date.
When I bought it I wanted something that was good on the motorway and fuel ( 100 mile/day commute ) but at the same time fun on the back roads without the need to modify it as I no longer have the time or money to do that. I've been a VAG man for years but not much fitted the bill, The Passat is dull and friends have had expensive reliability problems, A4 in my budget had similar reviews, so ultimately 320d was a good match on paper I'd say.
It's great on the Motorway although the clutch is heaving when in traffic. Cross country on the back roads ultimately the Golf was more fun, felt totally planted but it was wearing as when not "on it" the ride was pretty harsh to say the least, Much preferred the petrol engine. On the same roads at similar speeds the 320d is good but feels a lot more grown up and lacks the scruff of the neck fun feel the Golf had.
So I do like the 320d but if circumstances changed and I had a shorter commute I think it may go in favour of a MK5/6 GTI.
Tractor lad said:
All the E9*s had electric assistance except the 335d/i and the M3. Not a lot of people know that; it was a big factor in getting a 335d over a 330d. You need to try an ultra rare manual 335i then!
As I said just now, the heavy steering really isn't much of an issue, I listed it as a negative but it doesn't really bother me. I certainly wouldn't change my car because of it. I had it checked out when I bought the car because I genuinely thought something had broken (or the geo was wildly out or somethign), but once I had that one cleared up I've not really cared.With regard to the 335i, the throttle lag puts me off it; from the cars I've tried it seems to be a much longer delay with the turbocharged engines than with the normally aspirated ones like the E90/92 330i - I should clarify this is not turbo lag I'm talking about (that's not an issue thanks to the clever design) I'm talking about DBW throttle latency when going from 0% to n% throttle.
Tractor lad said:
All the E9*s had electric assistance except the 335d/i and the M3. Not a lot of people know that; it was a big factor in getting a 335d over a 330d. You need to try an ultra rare manual 335i then!
No I believe it was the facelift (LCI) that introduced this along with efficient dynamics stuff, what model is your 320d Rob, and what model was your 330i?Just bought an early e90 330i myself, not noticed the delay yet!
Should quickly pressing and releasing the throttle at 3k revs in 3rd reveal this?
RobM77 said:
With regard to the 335i, the throttle lag puts me off it; from the cars I've tried it seems to be a much longer delay with the turbocharged engines than with the normally aspirated ones like the E90/92 330i - I should clarify this is not turbo lag I'm talking about (that's not an issue thanks to the clever design) I'm talking about DBW throttle latency when going from 0% to n% throttle.
Possibly including the clever design of masking it with a slow dbw throttle response? 
Silver940 said:
One touch indicators - I often swear at these as I switch them left and right down the road trying to cancel
These are insane until you switch them off on the iDrive, then it's fine (if you have iDrive.. 
). What winds me up actually is how the bloody things keep cancelling just before you turn - even if you switch off the one touch in the iDrive, if you dare to move the steering wheel after you start to indicate (which is normal to position the car at the junction), the indicators cancel!Silver940 said:
Seat adjusters - the levers are a st idea.
t idea.
Electric is fine though.Silver940 said:
Window switches are about 2" too far forward so I keep opening the rear window,
Yep - I do that too, although I always thought it was my long legs and how far back I sit. MINI have ergonimic issues like this too - I had one recently where I couldn't believe the contortions needed to operate some of the controls. They could learn a lot from Audi in this respect.Silver940 said:
The way it dies when manoeuvring, Rob tells me this is the clutch valve, whatever it is it's bloody annoying
The CDV exacerbates the problem, but I think it's just a diesel thing. I've not owned a diesel before though so I don't really know, but yes, sometimes with no warning at all the engine just stops at low speed. Petrol engines struggle a bit before stalling and you get loads of warning, but the 320d just stops.Tractor lad said:
Try a 335d if you can; only that and the 335i had non electric steering; it's really quite meaty. In fact a chap I know with a knackered arm is thinking of getting an aftermarket electric system fitted to his E92 335d. Might be partly because it has 19s though; mine was on 17s. I really rated the steering on it; tonnes more feedback than my M135i which has almost none.
I found my E92 335d terrible for feedback. I'll agree the steering was "weighty" but the communication from it was dire. Not driven a 135 so can't compare, but against anything older it was sorely lackingdanp said:
Tractor lad said:
All the E9*s had electric assistance except the 335d/i and the M3. Not a lot of people know that; it was a big factor in getting a 335d over a 330d. You need to try an ultra rare manual 335i then!
No I believe it was the facelift (LCI) that introduced this along with efficient dynamics stuff, what model is your 320d Rob, and what model was your 330i?Just bought an early e90 330i myself, not noticed the delay yet!
Should quickly pressing and releasing the throttle at 3k revs in 3rd reveal this?
My 330ci was an early E46, and I owned the engine again in a 2007 Z4 Coupé. When I'm posting though I may be referring to E90 or E46, as I've driven both a fair bit. The E46 delay was comical - just over a second. The E90 is much smaller, but still too annoying for me.
ETA: To find the delay, just simulate the turn-in (or apex if you trailbrake) to a corner where you roll off the brake onto a steady throttle: so come off the throttle completely at a reasonable amount of revs (2.5-3k for example), so your foot isn't touching the throttle, and then give it a small amount of throttle, say 0-20%, just as you would to balance the car in a corner. You'll find that there's a time delay between when you put your foot on the throttle and when the engine wakes up, and when it does wake up it'll do so in a jerk, not smoothly. You Tube has a few videos from annoyed owners. The only video I took myself was of my Z4 Coupé, which had a pretty tiny delay, but it's still visible in the video - just search on You Tube.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 3rd July 10:42
Patrick Bateman said:
St John Smythe said:
I had a 330ci few years back and there is a slight throttle delay. However you get used to it pretty quickly. Total non issue IMO.
Oh I noticed a slight one as well, can't say it ever presented itself as an issue though or detracted from the drive really.I've met loads of people who hate the DBW delay and Porsche's VR steering, and equally loads of people who don't mind. Incidentally, I've also had a few personal messages from PHers over the last day or so talking about this thread and for similar threads in the past. They often sympathise with my point of view and agree with me, but don't want to post because they'll incite attacks and arguments from certain PHers... I'm just the one stupid enough to take part in the thread
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 3rd July 10:50
Tractor lad said:
All the E9*s had electric assistance except the 335d/i and the M3. Not a lot of people know that; it was a big factor in getting a 335d over a 330d.
My 2007 E90 has hydraulic power steering. OK, I haven't examined it in detail, but it doesn't feel like ePAS and there's a hydraulic fluid reservoir under the bonnet with pipes disappearing down towards the steering rack.RobM77 said:
Tractor lad said:
All the E9*s had electric assistance except the 335d/i and the M3. Not a lot of people know that; it was a big factor in getting a 335d over a 330d.
My 2007 E90 has hydraulic power steering. OK, I haven't examined it in detail, but it doesn't feel like ePAS and there's a hydraulic fluid reservoir under the bonnet with pipes disappearing down towards the steering rack.cerb4.5lee said:
Wills2 said:
I had a f30 318d sport for the day last week, I drove it in comparison to my F10 M5 and there is nothing wrong with the car, on 18" wheels and passive sport suspension it rode and handled well, weighs 1410kg which for a modern 5 seat 4 door saloon is remarkable and it felt nimble.
It was quiet, comfortable and efficient, happy days.
Quiet...really? were you wearing ear muffs when you were driving it! It was quiet, comfortable and efficient, happy days.
RobM77 said:
My 320d is an '07 with the earlier 163 engine.
My 330ci was an early E46, and I owned the engine again in a 2007 Z4 Coupé. When I'm posting though I may be referring to E90 or E46, as I've driven both a fair bit. The E46 delay was comical - just over a second. The E90 is much smaller, but still too annoying for me.
ETA: To find the delay, just simulate the turn-in (or apex if you trailbrake) to a corner where you roll off the brake onto a steady throttle: so come off the throttle completely at a reasonable amount of revs (2.5-3k for example), so your foot isn't touching the throttle, and then give it a small amount of throttle, say 0-20%, just as you would to balance the car in a corner. You'll find that there's a time delay between when you put your foot on the throttle and when the engine wakes up, and when it does wake up it'll do so in a jerk, not smoothly. You Tube has a few videos from annoyed owners. The only video I took myself was of my Z4 Coupé, which had a pretty tiny delay, but it's still visible in the video - just search on You Tube.
This is the quote/test I was thinking of, from an interview in CAR a few years ago:My 330ci was an early E46, and I owned the engine again in a 2007 Z4 Coupé. When I'm posting though I may be referring to E90 or E46, as I've driven both a fair bit. The E46 delay was comical - just over a second. The E90 is much smaller, but still too annoying for me.
ETA: To find the delay, just simulate the turn-in (or apex if you trailbrake) to a corner where you roll off the brake onto a steady throttle: so come off the throttle completely at a reasonable amount of revs (2.5-3k for example), so your foot isn't touching the throttle, and then give it a small amount of throttle, say 0-20%, just as you would to balance the car in a corner. You'll find that there's a time delay between when you put your foot on the throttle and when the engine wakes up, and when it does wake up it'll do so in a jerk, not smoothly. You Tube has a few videos from annoyed owners. The only video I took myself was of my Z4 Coupé, which had a pretty tiny delay, but it's still visible in the video - just search on You Tube.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 3rd July 10:42
Apparently GM has a test that he likes to do on fast cars: 3rd gear, 3k revs, back off the throttle for a second, then bury it.
In a Veyron, he managed to count to two-and-a-half before anything happened.
His words "...if you did that in an F1 it would take your head off."
danp said:
RobM77 said:
My 320d is an '07 with the earlier 163 engine.
My 330ci was an early E46, and I owned the engine again in a 2007 Z4 Coupé. When I'm posting though I may be referring to E90 or E46, as I've driven both a fair bit. The E46 delay was comical - just over a second. The E90 is much smaller, but still too annoying for me.
ETA: To find the delay, just simulate the turn-in (or apex if you trailbrake) to a corner where you roll off the brake onto a steady throttle: so come off the throttle completely at a reasonable amount of revs (2.5-3k for example), so your foot isn't touching the throttle, and then give it a small amount of throttle, say 0-20%, just as you would to balance the car in a corner. You'll find that there's a time delay between when you put your foot on the throttle and when the engine wakes up, and when it does wake up it'll do so in a jerk, not smoothly. You Tube has a few videos from annoyed owners. The only video I took myself was of my Z4 Coupé, which had a pretty tiny delay, but it's still visible in the video - just search on You Tube.
This is the quote/test I was thinking of, from an interview in CAR a few years ago:My 330ci was an early E46, and I owned the engine again in a 2007 Z4 Coupé. When I'm posting though I may be referring to E90 or E46, as I've driven both a fair bit. The E46 delay was comical - just over a second. The E90 is much smaller, but still too annoying for me.
ETA: To find the delay, just simulate the turn-in (or apex if you trailbrake) to a corner where you roll off the brake onto a steady throttle: so come off the throttle completely at a reasonable amount of revs (2.5-3k for example), so your foot isn't touching the throttle, and then give it a small amount of throttle, say 0-20%, just as you would to balance the car in a corner. You'll find that there's a time delay between when you put your foot on the throttle and when the engine wakes up, and when it does wake up it'll do so in a jerk, not smoothly. You Tube has a few videos from annoyed owners. The only video I took myself was of my Z4 Coupé, which had a pretty tiny delay, but it's still visible in the video - just search on You Tube.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 3rd July 10:42
Apparently GM has a test that he likes to do on fast cars: 3rd gear, 3k revs, back off the throttle for a second, then bury it.
In a Veyron, he managed to count to two-and-a-half before anything happened.
His words "...if you did that in an F1 it would take your head off."
Crikey - that's terrible! My party trick in the E46 330ci was if you put it in first gear at a 10mph crawl you could stamp your foot up and down on the throttle repeatedly and the car wouldn't respond at all, it would just keep bumbling along at 10mph as if nothing was happening. In defence to the Veyron it may just be working out what to do with the gearbox? The reason I say that is that I had an X3 3.0 on loan a few years ago and if you did the GM test on it it would sit there for a second, then dip the 'clutch' (torque converter), raise the revs to the torque peak, pause for a bit longer, and then suddenly fire you down the road - it was fking hilarious!There's a jolly good reason why racing cars running road car based engines run either a bespoke ECU or a cable throttle conversion... This sort of nonsense goes unnoticed by Joe Bloggs in the daily grind, but it's truly crap if you actually want to drive a car properly.
Incidentally, as you mention the Mclaren F1, its throttle response was so good and the torque low down was so strong that they put a spring in the throttle linkage to prevent owners bunny hopping at low speed. It sounds like a totally odd thing to do to a proper performance car, but it's in my F1 book.
Silver940 said:
Not sure how relevant it is to the thread but have my 2p
I've owned my E91 for over a year and something like 22k miles. Jury is still out though.
I had a modified ( Engine and Suspension) MK4 Golf GTI with 240k miles on it before.
Things I like
Quiet
Refined
Bike fits in the boot under the cover
Wet roundabouts
Steering Wheel
Seats
Looks nice in M-Sport Clothes
The little flap in the undertray that makes oil changes easy
Space in the rear seats
Opening tailgate window
Things I don't like
One touch indicators - I often swear at these as I switch them left and right down the road trying to cancel
Flappy accelerator pedal, got no feel, not sure what it is but don't like it.
Seat adjusters - the levers are a st idea.
Window switches are about 2" too far forward so I keep opening the rear window,
Slow - compared to the Golf
The way it dies when manoeuvring, Rob tells me this is the clutch valve, whatever it is it's bloody annoying
Feels bigger than it is
Stereo and the fact it's tied to the car so difficult to replace with something up to date.
When I bought it I wanted something that was good on the motorway and fuel ( 100 mile/day commute ) but at the same time fun on the back roads without the need to modify it as I no longer have the time or money to do that. I've been a VAG man for years but not much fitted the bill, The Passat is dull and friends have had expensive reliability problems, A4 in my budget had similar reviews, so ultimately 320d was a good match on paper I'd say.
It's great on the Motorway although the clutch is heaving when in traffic. Cross country on the back roads ultimately the Golf was more fun, felt totally planted but it was wearing as when not "on it" the ride was pretty harsh to say the least, Much preferred the petrol engine. On the same roads at similar speeds the 320d is good but feels a lot more grown up and lacks the scruff of the neck fun feel the Golf had.
So I do like the 320d but if circumstances changed and I had a shorter commute I think it may go in favour of a MK5/6 GTI.
With regards to your stereo comment there is a plug & play amplifier that improves the sound plus a speaker upgrade will give you much better sound quality.I've owned my E91 for over a year and something like 22k miles. Jury is still out though.
I had a modified ( Engine and Suspension) MK4 Golf GTI with 240k miles on it before.
Things I like
Quiet
Refined
Bike fits in the boot under the cover
Wet roundabouts
Steering Wheel
Seats
Looks nice in M-Sport Clothes
The little flap in the undertray that makes oil changes easy
Space in the rear seats
Opening tailgate window
Things I don't like
One touch indicators - I often swear at these as I switch them left and right down the road trying to cancel
Flappy accelerator pedal, got no feel, not sure what it is but don't like it.
Seat adjusters - the levers are a s
t idea.Window switches are about 2" too far forward so I keep opening the rear window,
Slow - compared to the Golf
The way it dies when manoeuvring, Rob tells me this is the clutch valve, whatever it is it's bloody annoying
Feels bigger than it is
Stereo and the fact it's tied to the car so difficult to replace with something up to date.
When I bought it I wanted something that was good on the motorway and fuel ( 100 mile/day commute ) but at the same time fun on the back roads without the need to modify it as I no longer have the time or money to do that. I've been a VAG man for years but not much fitted the bill, The Passat is dull and friends have had expensive reliability problems, A4 in my budget had similar reviews, so ultimately 320d was a good match on paper I'd say.
It's great on the Motorway although the clutch is heaving when in traffic. Cross country on the back roads ultimately the Golf was more fun, felt totally planted but it was wearing as when not "on it" the ride was pretty harsh to say the least, Much preferred the petrol engine. On the same roads at similar speeds the 320d is good but feels a lot more grown up and lacks the scruff of the neck fun feel the Golf had.
So I do like the 320d but if circumstances changed and I had a shorter commute I think it may go in favour of a MK5/6 GTI.
Blaupunkt THA555 is the amp & it's designed to fit the boot.
Tractor lad said:
The problem with the quick diesels is that they weigh a huge amount and are only found in enormous floaty barges or SUVs that weigh over two tonnes; the V10 TDI for example weighed 200 kgs more than the petrol V8 in the Touraeg and Phaeton.
About the only interesting cars (to steer as well as just blast off) are the smallish saloons/estates with 6 pot diesels; the C350CDI, the A4 3.0TDI (not sure if they do thecBiTDI in the A4?) and the 335d which has now got too big and too comfy in F30 form.
So yes, the massive diesels will cause distortions of physics but show one an S bend and they'll weep.
My gripe isn't the way they drive (IMO the best are actually nice power units), the noise (they six pots all sound meaty as do the eights), it's the emissions crap they now all have that have utterly killed any "savings" in fuel with the reliability of a 70s Lancia. The diesel has had its day. It's petrols, petrol hybrids and full electric now.
What car is more powerful than a 335d that is noticeably sportier/better to drive than the 1500kg 313bhp 335d?About the only interesting cars (to steer as well as just blast off) are the smallish saloons/estates with 6 pot diesels; the C350CDI, the A4 3.0TDI (not sure if they do thecBiTDI in the A4?) and the 335d which has now got too big and too comfy in F30 form.
So yes, the massive diesels will cause distortions of physics but show one an S bend and they'll weep.
My gripe isn't the way they drive (IMO the best are actually nice power units), the noise (they six pots all sound meaty as do the eights), it's the emissions crap they now all have that have utterly killed any "savings" in fuel with the reliability of a 70s Lancia. The diesel has had its day. It's petrols, petrol hybrids and full electric now.
.....and what car would you like to see a 313bhp oil burner in that would make a demonstrable difference?
Palmers said:
I wholeheartedly agree. Although im a barge lover, why no big diesel engines in smaller cars?!
The V12 tdi they put in the Q7 would have been hella fun in another car. Id even settle for having it in an A8!
Wasn't the issue that the V12 weight more than a small car and kept setting itself on fire? (and gave no real fuel consumption benefit)The V12 tdi they put in the Q7 would have been hella fun in another car. Id even settle for having it in an A8!
...and the V10 was less powerful than the 3.0 TwinTurbo (BMW and Audi)?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff