RE: Lotus 3-Eleven - official!
Discussion
JMG is intending to keep the entry level model at around £30k.
JMG said:
“There will always be an Elise, an Exige and an Evora in our range, but in the future they will have better ergonomics and be easier to get into,” Gales said.
“The next Elise has to do two things. The S version will be lighter, faster and more expensive than today’s car. But we also need to have a base Elise that’s only a little over £30,000."
Telegraph clicky“The next Elise has to do two things. The S version will be lighter, faster and more expensive than today’s car. But we also need to have a base Elise that’s only a little over £30,000."
Tuna said:
Kolbenkopp said:
IMVHO, problem is that while the hot models look like excellent value for money, the Elise range struggles a bit when just looking at numbers. Power/weight of the entry level Elise has roughly stayed the same compared to the 96 car. Which is not at all what happened in hot hatch land. No more a 'Giant Slayer' sadly... For ~ 10k€ less than a Club Racer, you can get your arse into a Civic Type-R here. Tough sell. The S looks a bit better, but price wise it has to compete with the Boxster...
Trouble is, it costs the large manufacturers almost nothing to put a larger engine in a hot hatch just to bump up the numbers and provoke a few sales. It won't make it handle like a Lotus. The Elise has always been expensive compared to mass produced machinery and has always sold on it's ride and nimbleness. You then go on to compare a top of the range hot hatch with the base level Elise. I'm not sure that there's any secret sauce they can put on it to make it competitive if all you care about is bhp/tonne, and as for value for money, there will always be the MX-5.Personally, I see no problem with the entry level machine maintaining the same power/weight - the original Elise was a complete blast to drive, so why change it? If Gales stays consistent with his recent changes, we're likely to see the base model axed, and more powerful models introduced at higher prices. Personally I think that'd be a shame.
Even hot hatches are losing appeal as a driver's car with the extra weight, isolation and gizmos to eliminate torque steer.
The 311 looks exceptional value.
Hopefully the MX5 will continue to inspire those who drive it to consider driver's cars again, even if the little Mazda itself is too effete for them.
Tuna said:
Kolbenkopp said:
IMVHO, problem is that while the hot models look like excellent value for money, the Elise range struggles a bit when just looking at numbers. Power/weight of the entry level Elise has roughly stayed the same compared to the 96 car. Which is not at all what happened in hot hatch land. No more a 'Giant Slayer' sadly... For ~ 10k€ less than a Club Racer, you can get your arse into a Civic Type-R here. Tough sell. The S looks a bit better, but price wise it has to compete with the Boxster...
Trouble is, it costs the large manufacturers almost nothing to put a larger engine in a hot hatch just to bump up the numbers and provoke a few sales. It won't make it handle like a Lotus. The Elise has always been expensive compared to mass produced machinery and has always sold on it's ride and nimbleness. You then go on to compare a top of the range hot hatch with the base level Elise. I'm not sure that there's any secret sauce they can put on it to make it competitive if all you care about is bhp/tonne, and as for value for money, there will always be the MX-5.Personally, I see no problem with the entry level machine maintaining the same power/weight - the original Elise was a complete blast to drive, so why change it? If Gales stays consistent with his recent changes, we're likely to see the base model axed, and more powerful models introduced at higher prices. Personally I think that'd be a shame.
RobM77 said:
You're absolutely correct, but the vast majority of the market for performance cars doesn't know most of that, they just see the latest FWD hatch with whatever power it has and the leather seats and blue teeth and rate that as more desirable as a stripped out 1.6 Elise. Sad but true, and it's why Lotus sell a niche product, so Kolbenkopp is dead right as well. I don't know anything about watches, but I guess it's like comparing an entry level Rolex with a top of the range Casio?
We're getting dangerously close to the usual 'how to fix Lotus' conversation, but I agree. To be honest though, it's not a bad thing that testosterone heavy numpties don't buy into the Lotus niche - for a car that is very much the preserve of young guys, it's avoided being tarred with a 'Jack the lad' image. Given that a few have been wrapped round lampposts over the years, that's quite an achievement.There's a fine line to be trod between snobbish exclusiveness and being a product for those that know, but so far the new management seem to be doing the right things. Selfishly I just want them to be successful enough to keep creating exciting new cars and don't actually care about them taking over the world. Small niche markets allow products that are designed within tight constraints and all the more interesting for it.
Tuna said:
RobM77 said:
You're absolutely correct, but the vast majority of the market for performance cars doesn't know most of that, they just see the latest FWD hatch with whatever power it has and the leather seats and blue teeth and rate that as more desirable as a stripped out 1.6 Elise. Sad but true, and it's why Lotus sell a niche product, so Kolbenkopp is dead right as well. I don't know anything about watches, but I guess it's like comparing an entry level Rolex with a top of the range Casio?
We're getting dangerously close to the usual 'how to fix Lotus' conversation, but I agree. To be honest though, it's not a bad thing that testosterone heavy numpties don't buy into the Lotus niche - for a car that is very much the preserve of young guys, it's avoided being tarred with a 'Jack the lad' image. Given that a few have been wrapped round lampposts over the years, that's quite an achievement.There's a fine line to be trod between snobbish exclusiveness and being a product for those that know, but so far the new management seem to be doing the right things. Selfishly I just want them to be successful enough to keep creating exciting new cars and don't actually care about them taking over the world. Small niche markets allow products that are designed within tight constraints and all the more interesting for it.
Me too. Make something that appeals to the masses and they'll all like it - make something to appeal to a small set of people with specific requirements and they'll mostly love it. Lotus may not sell as many cars as Porsche do now, but I'd argue that their products attract more deep rooted lifelong passion than modern Porsches do.personally i hope the prices for the new models are higher but stick with toyota running gear, it'll drag up values of the s2 toyota cars nicely 
i've been having naughty thoughts about an s3 exige but to drop 50k on one the build quality would need to be leagues ahead of my s2. even properly functioning a/c would be a start!
i've been having naughty thoughts about an s3 exige but to drop 50k on one the build quality would need to be leagues ahead of my s2. even properly functioning a/c would be a start!
Tuna said:
Trouble is, it costs the large manufacturers almost nothing to put a larger engine in a hot hatch just to bump up the numbers and provoke a few sales. It won't make it handle like a Lotus. The Elise has always been expensive compared to mass produced machinery and has always sold on it's ride and nimbleness. You then go on to compare a top of the range hot hatch with the base level Elise. I'm not sure that there's any secret sauce they can put on it to make it competitive if all you care about is bhp/tonne, and as for value for money, there will always be the MX-5.
Personally, I see no problem with the entry level machine maintaining the same power/weight - the original Elise was a complete blast to drive, so why change it? If Gales stays consistent with his recent changes, we're likely to see the base model axed, and more powerful models introduced at higher prices. Personally I think that'd be a shame.
You're probably right. The simple truth is that these are toys for boys and at the end of the day a car with 400 BHP attracts more eyeballs than one with 200 BHp. Top Trumps and pub talk does seriously matter for boys toys. As can be seen by the number of people who chose to buy cars which are technically slower than a Lotus but monster them in drag racing. Personally, I see no problem with the entry level machine maintaining the same power/weight - the original Elise was a complete blast to drive, so why change it? If Gales stays consistent with his recent changes, we're likely to see the base model axed, and more powerful models introduced at higher prices. Personally I think that'd be a shame.
DonkeyApple said:
You're probably right. The simple truth is that these are toys for boys and at the end of the day a car with 400 BHP attracts more eyeballs than one with 200 BHp. Top Trumps and pub talk does seriously matter for boys toys. As can be seen by the number of people who chose to buy cars which are technically slower than a Lotus but monster them in drag racing.
Or to put it another way - you can't base a car company as big as Lotus on selling to enthusiasts. However, you perhaps can sell 311 daft track toys to enthusiasts.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th June 16:44
kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
You're probably right. The simple truth is that these are toys for boys and at the end of the day a car with 400 BHP attracts more eyeballs than one with 200 BHp. Top Trumps and pub talk does seriously matter for boys toys. As can be seen by the number of people who chose to buy cars which are technically slower than a Lotus but monster them in drag racing.
Or to put it another way - you can't base a car company as big as Lotus on selling to enthusiasts. However, you perhaps can sell 311 daft track toys to enthusiasts.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th June 16:44
Even the 311 will be attracting other types of car enthusiasts because it's got a Lotus brand and looks like it will be hilarious to drive. Some chaps will just want to arrive next season with this latest boy's toy.
I do really like what Lotus are doing at the moment.
Eosman said:
997 Turbo PLUS 3 yr old E/C 63 AMG Estate for the same money ... no brainer !!!!!!
Not really much fun though if you like driving, rather than just going fast. I wouldn't say no to either car of course, they're both lovely, but they're sitting in a very different market to an unassisted stripped out track car. I would say that either of those plus a Caterham is a more relevant comparison.On another note, the BAC Mono is surely the closest competitor to this new 3-Eleven?
With the news and reveal of the new Lotus 311, my excitement lead me to look up videos of it on YouTube. If you go to the link that I posted you will find a video of the CEO of Lotus cars unveiling the new 311 and giving a short speech. Now, is it just me, or do you feel that this speech from this man, who is a CEO mind you, gave a very robotic and dry and unenthusiastic speech? For God's sake, put some personality into it. Rile the crowd up!!
"I am very excited to introduce to all of you our all new Lotus 311..." - said in slow monotone voice. "And I am very pleased to announce to all of you that this new car represents a small yet important peek into the near future of our determined company... We here at Lotus Cars are thrilled...
LOL
yes mr CEO i-forgot-his-name, you look very excited. LOL
http://youtu.be/b_i5VfZar8o
"I am very excited to introduce to all of you our all new Lotus 311..." - said in slow monotone voice. "And I am very pleased to announce to all of you that this new car represents a small yet important peek into the near future of our determined company... We here at Lotus Cars are thrilled...
LOL
yes mr CEO i-forgot-his-name, you look very excited. LOL http://youtu.be/b_i5VfZar8o
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff