Welcome to TVR ownership......car wont start.
Discussion
No, I have no idea why it needs a tilt sensor in the first place)
alan-87 said:
Chimpongas- thank you for such an excellent post. I shall certainly work my way through that list and it has already improved my knowledge no end. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that up.
Qbee- car now starts after a 24hour charge so battery could well be weak as suggested. I think as well as working through COG post a new battery certainly wont do any arm.
Thanks for all the informative posts and support guys!
Have a read of my post here when I was Chimpandtonic:Qbee- car now starts after a 24hour charge so battery could well be weak as suggested. I think as well as working through COG post a new battery certainly wont do any arm.
Thanks for all the informative posts and support guys!
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It covers my initial investigations of the starter lead used by TVR and it's condition after 15 years of being cooked, this very long lead is draped over the bell housing trapped between the bulkhead & hot cylinder heads where there is no airflow.
It also outlines my testing of the circuit and discovery of a significant voltage & amp drop at the starter motor due to the very long and inadequate gauge cable used by TVR.
It finishes with my resolution of the problem by use of heavier & new 50mm² cable, and the same cable for a direct earth return.
Trust me here, the heavier new cable & direct earth return made a massive difference on my car proven both by the readings on my multimeter and the dramatically improved way the car cranks, especially when hot.
Now have a read of my post here on the 24th May where I explain just how easy it is to take the burnt out immobiliser relay out of the equation so you're delivering a full compliment of amps the the starter solenoid.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If you follow the instruction to upgrade the starter cable & earth return your car will definitely crank more strongly, you will also be putting far less load on your battery which will help it's longevity, you will also solve the painfully slow cranking (when very hot) issue that I've seen on a number of Chimaeras.
If you then bypass the immobiliser on the starter solenoid circuit and add a relay to protect the contacts in the ignition switch you will completely eliminate the so called "Hot Start" problem.
All the above will make a massive improvement to any Chimaera's starting reliability.
However none of it is a solution to a battery that's already on it's last legs, among the many battery tests I strongly recommend a heavy discharge test, the heavy discharge test is the only conclusive way to prove of how well your battery can cope with load (cranking).
None of the above will help if your starter motor itself or the solenoid mounted to it are on their last legs, so test both too as part of your starter system health check.
Finally none of the above will resolve the very common parasitic drain issue that most if not all Chimaera's suffer, causes for this can be a faulty door pin switch or faulty courtesy light delay relay, but mostly its down to the constant drain the security system places on the battery.
You may choose to keep ahead of the drain by placing the car on a maintenance charger and this will certainly help, but my simple solution is just to disconnect the battery when the car is left for an extended period.
Remember, a disconnected battery will not drain, in fact assuming it's been disconnected from the source of the drain a healthy battery will hold enough charge to start the car after up to 8 months of no activity.
I found the best way to disconnect the battery (which is buried inconveniently in the passenger footwell) is to use the infra red remote control deactivation system called "Battery Brain".
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/productspage.php
You need the "Gold" model with the remote fobs.
Once fitted a "Battery Brain" allows you to disconnect the battery using a remote fob after you have deadlocked the car. Lock the car as normal then press the "Battery Brain" remote fob and the car is both secure and the battery will suffer no drain.
I've proved using the "Battery Brain" you can eliminate the annoying battery drain no start disappointments without the need for a mains power supply, a good friend of mine who uses his Chimaera very infrequently has found he can leave his car in a council lockup for over six months with no trickle charger attached and still start it like he's used it yesterday.
But for all this to work you still need that healthy battery, to this end I highly recommend you buy the biggest & heaviest battery you can squeeze down the passenger footwell.
I also recommend you pay the 10-15% premium to buy a battery with "AGM" construction (Absorbent Glass Mat), look for "AGM" and "suitable for Stop-Start technology", make sure it'll fit and it has at least 550-600 CCA.
Finally, you should only replace components you've fully proven genuinely need replacing because you tested them properly.
Too many people try to fix things by blindly replacing components in the hope they'll get lucky and stumble on a solution to their problem, this method of repair is ignorant, unscientific and invariably involves spending money unnecessarily.
ClassiChimi said:
Mmm I have some of these issues, I totally get the picture now after reading this post, I'll be doing all the above, cheers Dave. 
Go for it Alun... 
Trust me, if you do all the above you will definitely resolve any starting issues you currently have, more importantly you will also eliminate many future issues that are waiting to catch you out.
The Chimaera & Griffith models were the pinnacle of TVR's policy of using proven components from large manufacturers. The advantage of this TVR build strategy being that these components were properly developed, because the large manufacturers like Ford & Land Rover have development budgets tiny volume car makers like TVR could only dream of.
Just look at what you get with a Chimaera or Griffith.
1. The well understood, developed and durable Rover V8 engine very much as used in the contemporary Range Rover (hundreds of thousands sold)
2. The strong (up to 350 ft/lbs) and reliable Borg Warner World Class edition T5 gearbox as used in the contemporary Ford Mustang (hundreds of thousands sold)
3. Sierra Cosworth CV drive shafts, very strong & totally reliable (up to 400 Ft/Lbs)
4. The totally bullet proof BTR limited slip differential (used in thousands of big torque V8 Holdens)
5. Proven and effective Ford brakes
6. Many many other proven components from Vauxhall, Ford ect ect.
In theory this recipe should have delivered a car with excellent reliability and durability, sadly TVR didn't build the cars as well as they could and often made silly mistakes, 90% of the problems being in the way TVR wired the cars!
Fortunately because the drive train components are so tough and the wiring issues relatively easy to resolve, you can very easily & cheaply turn a Chimaera or Griffith into what it should have always been...
The most reliable TVR bar none!
Indeed if TVR had just wired the immobiliser correctly and improved the loom in a number of small areas the Chims & Griffs could have gone a long way to help TVR shake off its poor reliability reputation.
Following the fundamentally simple & robust Chim & Griff models TVR decided to take things to a whole new level of complexity, this was probably unavoidable as generally cars at the time were all becoming way more sophisticated and TVR were desperately trying to keep up and ultimately chasing Porsche customers.
TVR simply attempted to become too clever for their own good (especially with the electrical side), consequently the cars often became very unreliable indeed, this all started with the Cerbera that has a vast array of cheaply made & unreliable little black boxes that control all sorts of unnecessarily complicated functions like door glass dropping ect ect.
TVR didn't stop there, while the AJP8 engines weren't too bad the subsequent AJP6 was a reliability disaster.
So for anyone looking for a genuinely robust & reliable first TVR they need look no further than a Chimaera or Griffith, all you need to achieve an excellent TVR experience is buy decent example of one of these models and invest a small amount of time & money resolving the rather simple to fix electrical issues.
Once these wiring issues are sorted you're left with all the super robust, proven, well developed and easy to maintain power train components.
The result should be a very capable classic British sports car that is way more reliable and practical than you could imagine, and one that's still massively undervalued in the market today.
In summary the Chimaera and Griffith may have had a few little build issues but because they are so cheap & easy to resolve and because the rest of the car is so robust, you end up with the very best value classic that performs way better than any other classic British sports car costing four times the price.
Prices are already on the rise but when this little secret finally gets out we will surely see the value of these simple and fundamentally robust TVR models rocket.
My advise to anyone considering their first TVR is to by a Chimaera of Griffith before they exceed your budget, make sure you buy the very best one you can afford, resolve the little wiring issues, maintain the car properly, and most of all......
ENJOY...
It's inspirational stuff,,, but yet it's cold hard facts this man deals in,,,
What a boy,
Whoever reads that post will learn more about what's in the garage than any car salesman could ever explain.
I've been wavering wether I can afford my car gong forward but that's changed everything.
My cars close,,,, so close,,,,, I've spent a fortune mostly on things I didn't need,now I can see with a little more TLC I'll have the car Dave describes and the car I believed 4 years ago I could achieve.
I knew nothing about Tvr but from an engineering point of view I thought it must be able to be fixed,,
Peter and many others including Dave show us it's possible.
Dave that has cleared my mind, no going back, she's her for as long as I am!
Thankyou sir.
What a boy,
Whoever reads that post will learn more about what's in the garage than any car salesman could ever explain.
I've been wavering wether I can afford my car gong forward but that's changed everything.
My cars close,,,, so close,,,,, I've spent a fortune mostly on things I didn't need,now I can see with a little more TLC I'll have the car Dave describes and the car I believed 4 years ago I could achieve.
I knew nothing about Tvr but from an engineering point of view I thought it must be able to be fixed,,
Peter and many others including Dave show us it's possible.
Dave that has cleared my mind, no going back, she's her for as long as I am!
Thankyou sir.
Cheers boys, even though I firmly stand by everything I've written above I still have the sneaking suspicion I'm preaching to the converted 
The audience I'd really like to touch are the TVR doubters, I guess they will come to the party eventually but probably only after the price of other classics force them to take another look at the wonderful 90's TVR models.
If you're in the market for a traditional British sports car just take a minute to ask yourself what's better value for money????
A. A £60k E-type you spend another £30k on to give it a BW T5 five speed box and make it stop, handle & go like a Chimaera
B. A £38k Healey you spend another £20k on to give it a five speed box and make it stop, handle & go still nowhere near a Chimaera
C. A £12k fully restored MGB that will always be a four cylinder BMC parts bin Austin Cambridge convertible no matter how much you spend on it
D. A six cylinder £18k Tuscan or Tamora you'll spend another £8k on to sort it's chocolate engine
E. A £10k full fat 4,000cc V8 Chimaera you spend another £2k on to resolve it's slightly iffy wiring issues
F. Spend 250k on an Eagle E-type, brilliant but super rich pricey
G. Spend £60k on a Frontline MGB, brilliant again but still a four pot & very pricey compared with a good Chimaera
It's only when you look at it like this that you finally realise what good value the Chimaera truly is.
Take option E, get the better car, and save a ship load of money you can then spend on going to the South of France for a bucket list holiday where the locals that have never seen a TVR will think you are driving a £100k car anyway.
I've been there and done it loads of times in 'Ol Gasbag', I've spanked my mates in their £90k classics and still had the same admiring looks from the locals when we all eventually meet up for lunch.
The only real issue with a Chimaera is its fuel economy, which even on petrol is still way better than a Healey or E-Type by the way.
Go left field and make it suck gas like I have and you get all of the above benefits with genuine 50mpg cost equivalent fuel consumption.
When will the brainwashed "TVRs are Unreliable" crowd wake up?
Actually I hope they never do, I kind of like the TVR underdog status, because it keeps these cars within the grasp of common man....
Overall the bottom line is the whole TVR thing couldn't be more quirky British, and I don't know about you but I'm properly proud to be quirky British
The thing is only the TVR educated will ever know the quirky choice is actually the sensible choice
The audience I'd really like to touch are the TVR doubters, I guess they will come to the party eventually but probably only after the price of other classics force them to take another look at the wonderful 90's TVR models.
If you're in the market for a traditional British sports car just take a minute to ask yourself what's better value for money????
A. A £60k E-type you spend another £30k on to give it a BW T5 five speed box and make it stop, handle & go like a Chimaera
B. A £38k Healey you spend another £20k on to give it a five speed box and make it stop, handle & go still nowhere near a Chimaera
C. A £12k fully restored MGB that will always be a four cylinder BMC parts bin Austin Cambridge convertible no matter how much you spend on it
D. A six cylinder £18k Tuscan or Tamora you'll spend another £8k on to sort it's chocolate engine
E. A £10k full fat 4,000cc V8 Chimaera you spend another £2k on to resolve it's slightly iffy wiring issues
F. Spend 250k on an Eagle E-type, brilliant but super rich pricey
G. Spend £60k on a Frontline MGB, brilliant again but still a four pot & very pricey compared with a good Chimaera
It's only when you look at it like this that you finally realise what good value the Chimaera truly is.
Take option E, get the better car, and save a ship load of money you can then spend on going to the South of France for a bucket list holiday where the locals that have never seen a TVR will think you are driving a £100k car anyway.
I've been there and done it loads of times in 'Ol Gasbag', I've spanked my mates in their £90k classics and still had the same admiring looks from the locals when we all eventually meet up for lunch.
The only real issue with a Chimaera is its fuel economy, which even on petrol is still way better than a Healey or E-Type by the way.
Go left field and make it suck gas like I have and you get all of the above benefits with genuine 50mpg cost equivalent fuel consumption.
When will the brainwashed "TVRs are Unreliable" crowd wake up?
Actually I hope they never do, I kind of like the TVR underdog status, because it keeps these cars within the grasp of common man....
Overall the bottom line is the whole TVR thing couldn't be more quirky British, and I don't know about you but I'm properly proud to be quirky British
The thing is only the TVR educated will ever know the quirky choice is actually the sensible choice
what terrific posts - the only point to add perhaps is that the Chim is a very beautiful car and that is not something you could say about the alternatives except perhaps the E-type which is more beautiful IMHO but, having run a series 1 roadster for 5 years, is far less fun to drive.
Some very good points in these posts. I too just do not understand how the 'classic market' seems to almost deny the existence of TVRs. The magazines rarely give them a mention and if they do its always this BS about reliability, why? In Classic Car magazine this month there is a Citroen DS rag top for sale at £200k!!! WTF is that about? Their classic car pricing index even reckons that 450s and 500s have dropped in price, have they no idea how few of these were produced let alone left running. One dealer only sells cars like Cobra/GT40 replicas etc. and wants £35k+ for them and some way more than that! Uh, they are kit cars!! Totally bemused by it all.
semaj said:
Some very good points in these posts. I too just do not understand how the 'classic market' seems to almost deny the existence of TVRs. The magazines rarely give them a mention and if they do its always this BS about reliability, why? In Classic Car magazine this month there is a Citroen DS rag top for sale at £200k!!! WTF is that about? Their classic car pricing index even reckons that 450s and 500s have dropped in price, have they no idea how few of these were produced let alone left running. One dealer only sells cars like Cobra/GT40 replicas etc. and wants £35k+ for them and some way more than that! Uh, they are kit cars!! Totally bemused by it all.
All of the above and this......1. Cora replica - Impractical, frustrating and £35k to buy a decent one - a lot of very shoddy builds out there
2. A 60's classic - (E-Type, Healey ect), expensive to buy, poor brakes, poor handling, poor reliability, expensive to make usable (£5k T5 gearbox conversion, £5k injection, £5k suspension, £3k brakes, £2k cooling, + £???? other stuff)
3. A Chimaera - Still relatively cheap to buy in comparison and already 98% there - Five speed box, decent modern disc brakes, limited slip diff, fuel injection, good ergonomics, bullet proof engine, bags of old school carachter
I looked at all three options five/six years ago when I was shopping for a classic, to me a Chimaera was a no-brainer.
The fundamental design is excellent, the drive train components are also excellent & proven, the overall package seemed insanely good value to me compared with what I knew I'd have to do to a 60's classic to make it usable.
I was very aware of the reliability stigma these cars carry but coming at it from an engineering perspective and knowing the components TVR used, it didn't make sense to me why they had such a poor reputation in this respect.
So I went Chimaera shopping and found some real shockers, chassis' with peeling powdercoat were everywhere, I nearly gave up.
Then I found my late 1996 low mileage facelift car with it's far superior silver grey chassis finish and I was in like Flynn.
I soon found out 99% of the reliability problems related to TVR's wiring efforts, I then found out that 95% of the loom was actually perfectly well executed, and that the pish poor five percent that remained was so so easy to resolve.
So the TVR gamble paid off for me big style, once happy with the car's reliability I simply pointed it south and have been using it to take me on holiday to France ever since.
What I didn't bank on was how practical a Chimaera is as an everyday sports car, so it ends up getting used for a lot more than high days & holidays.
BARGAIN!!!
davelittlewood said:
Or 22k + for a Caterham that you still have to build yourself.
More room, heater, proper roof and windows, proper boot, LSD, (and a stereo but mines hardly ever on, what's the point)
A good friend built a Caterham and they are good fun but I'm so glad I bought the TVR!
Very similar, my friend bought a Westfield ,,, had to build it himself, lots of bits caused many a headache to assemble, More room, heater, proper roof and windows, proper boot, LSD, (and a stereo but mines hardly ever on, what's the point)
A good friend built a Caterham and they are good fun but I'm so glad I bought the TVR!
It cost 30K and it doesn't even have a roof? It's really fast etc but by eck it's cost some money to get it working how he wants, he does t even like it that much?
I too would choose a Chimaera over it anyday.
I chose a Chimaera over a DB9.
It's a brilliant compromise car, good at so many things and brilliant because it doesn't feel like a compromise at any of them.
I use mine several times a week, go shopping in it, do track days in it, take it to work, use it all year round.
I would never have done all that with a DB9.
It's a brilliant compromise car, good at so many things and brilliant because it doesn't feel like a compromise at any of them.
I use mine several times a week, go shopping in it, do track days in it, take it to work, use it all year round.
I would never have done all that with a DB9.
QBee said:
I chose a Chimaera over a DB9.
It's a brilliant compromise car, good at so many things and brilliant because it doesn't feel like a compromise at any of them.
I use mine several times a week, go shopping in it, do track days in it, take it to work, use it all year round.
I would never have done all that with a DB9.
It's a love affair is a good car,,,,,It's a brilliant compromise car, good at so many things and brilliant because it doesn't feel like a compromise at any of them.
I use mine several times a week, go shopping in it, do track days in it, take it to work, use it all year round.
I would never have done all that with a DB9.
There's many things to love about many cars
Few cars for the money,,,,, if any Make you feel at one with it so well, on a smooth track and a bit of diligence these cars come alive,
On the road with the correct dampers and springs etc they are still the closest thing to driving a wild horse that man has devised yet
Proper car for a proper man.
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