80% want a tyre war
Discussion
NRS said:
A tyre war... one quick way to rule out x% of the cars being in with a chance of being anywhere close to winning because they don't have the right tyre. So basically becoming the new "engine", which replaced "Newey aero" on cars before that. And so on. It just swaps around the particular thing that makes a team dominate. Main thing is to change aero so teams can overtake more properly as that seems to have got worse this season again.
hogwashso during the years when there was competition, every race was won by a single make of tyre?
the records do not show that, last year we had a tyre war, 2006 it was actually 9/9 wins each (Bridgestone/Michelin).
the last time it was a 100% sweep was 1997 - first year back in F1 for Bridgestone and they lost to the incumbent Goodyear, the next year they turned the tables and won.
try again.
k it, just stick all the drivers in a McHonda and let them all fight it out (if any of them finish!) 
The tyre war of the 80s, 90s and mid noughties was a difficult one for tyre companies to justify. Unlimited testing meant airfreighting new specifications out during race weekends (after Friday FP1!). It was technically impressive, but not sustainable.
However, the FIA should look to their WEC for how to manage a tyre war. In LMP2, three specifications must be declared at the beginning of the year by the competing tyre manufacturers. The same specifications must work in qualifying and race conditions.
The result: race lap times that are with a percent of pole...unlike in F1 where the race times are often 5% slower than qualifying; durable tyres; different strategies (different manufacturers mean different peak points in lap time during the stints)and race results in doubt until the very end.
In fact, F1 could just adopt LMP2 tyre regulations.....then you'd have a range of tyre manufacturers trying to build a range of three tyres that could win from Monaco to Le Mans......
However, the FIA should look to their WEC for how to manage a tyre war. In LMP2, three specifications must be declared at the beginning of the year by the competing tyre manufacturers. The same specifications must work in qualifying and race conditions.
The result: race lap times that are with a percent of pole...unlike in F1 where the race times are often 5% slower than qualifying; durable tyres; different strategies (different manufacturers mean different peak points in lap time during the stints)and race results in doubt until the very end.
In fact, F1 could just adopt LMP2 tyre regulations.....then you'd have a range of tyre manufacturers trying to build a range of three tyres that could win from Monaco to Le Mans......
good plan...
just to pick up one detail though, realistically, there was not tyre war from 1985-1996, yes Pirelli were there for 5 of those years but effectively did nothing (3 wins in 5 years).
I have said this before, in open competition, Pirelli will get slaughtered, they have never been able to win in any class with open competition.
just to pick up one detail though, realistically, there was not tyre war from 1985-1996, yes Pirelli were there for 5 of those years but effectively did nothing (3 wins in 5 years).
I have said this before, in open competition, Pirelli will get slaughtered, they have never been able to win in any class with open competition.
Scuffers said:
hogwash
so during the years when there was competition, every race was won by a single make of tyre?
the records do not show that, last year we had a tyre war, 2006 it was actually 9/9 wins each (Bridgestone/Michelin).
the last time it was a 100% sweep was 1997 - first year back in F1 for Bridgestone and they lost to the incumbent Goodyear, the next year they turned the tables and won.
try again.
Like any variable it can become the dominant one be it the conditions eg. 2006 Chinese GP quali whereby Schumi was the only Bridgestone to qualify in the top ten in wet quali; race by race eg. 2006 had its share of boring races due to tyre war and dominant tyre. so during the years when there was competition, every race was won by a single make of tyre?
the records do not show that, last year we had a tyre war, 2006 it was actually 9/9 wins each (Bridgestone/Michelin).
the last time it was a 100% sweep was 1997 - first year back in F1 for Bridgestone and they lost to the incumbent Goodyear, the next year they turned the tables and won.
try again.
There comes a point when people are sick of hearing of cars not being on the right tyre manufacturer.
A better example over the danger to competition from a tyre war is best exemplified in MotoGP when Bridgestone dominated to such a point that Valentino got sick of his crap Michelins and wanted special treatment and use Bridgestones mid-season (can't remember the exact season!)
Redlake27 said:
The tyre war of the 80s, 90s and mid noughties was a difficult one for tyre companies to justify. Unlimited testing meant airfreighting new specifications out during race weekends (after Friday FP1!). It was technically impressive, but not sustainable.
However, the FIA should look to their WEC for how to manage a tyre war. In LMP2, three specifications must be declared at the beginning of the year by the competing tyre manufacturers. The same specifications must work in qualifying and race conditions.
I agree with you in principle, but what you have in LMP2 is a situation where the Michelin is around 1.5s/lap slower than the Dunlop and no one uses it apart from Krohn and SMP (and SMP only use them because they aren't allowed to buy Dunlops because of the US sanctions on Russia). So effectively there is no tyre war in LMP2 any more, because the regulations have dictated that if a tyre is off the pace then it cannot be redesigned until the following year - hence Strakka simply bought Dunlops before Le Mans.However, the FIA should look to their WEC for how to manage a tyre war. In LMP2, three specifications must be declared at the beginning of the year by the competing tyre manufacturers. The same specifications must work in qualifying and race conditions.
Lots of people who bang on about another F1 tyre war have absolutely no concept of what would be involved. As Redlake27 says, above, the sheer logistics involved in the last tyre war were mind-blowing and the quantities of tyres taken to each race were incredible - multiple compounds and constructions. It's madness to even consider it when half the grid is scratching around to find the money to be out there. That era of F1 was insane - test teams, cars running simultaneously at multiple race tracks while the race weekend was running in order to validate set-ups, three cars on a Friday, etc, etc. There is no way that sort of thing can ever happen again.
Scuffers said:
good plan...
just to pick up one detail though, realistically, there was not tyre war from 1985-1996, yes Pirelli were there for 5 of those years but effectively did nothing (3 wins in 5 years).
I have said this before, in open competition, Pirelli will get slaughtered, they have never been able to win in any class with open competition.
They did alright on the Astons in ALMS against the Michelin-shod Corvettes. And in European GT1 racing during that era.just to pick up one detail though, realistically, there was not tyre war from 1985-1996, yes Pirelli were there for 5 of those years but effectively did nothing (3 wins in 5 years).
I have said this before, in open competition, Pirelli will get slaughtered, they have never been able to win in any class with open competition.
Ahonen said:
Lots of people who bang on about another F1 tyre war have absolutely no concept of what would be involved. As Redlake27 says, above, the sheer logistics involved in the last tyre war were mind-blowing and the quantities of tyres taken to each race were incredible - multiple compounds and constructions. It's madness to even consider it when half the grid is scratching around to find the money to be out there. That era of F1 was insane - test teams, cars running simultaneously at multiple race tracks while the race weekend was running in order to validate set-ups, three cars on a Friday, etc, etc. There is no way that sort of thing can ever happen again.
Bang on. Exactly why Pat Simmonds is dead set against the idea of another tyre war.RYH64E said:
The only way a the war would work is if the teams had a free choice as to which tyre to use, on a race by race basis, otherwise it would be like having half the field running Mercedes engines and the other half having to use Honda.
and that illustrates the point in F1the way you're arguing is for a single make championship, where all the cars are the same.
Last time somebody tried that look what happened.
I don't see what the problem with a tyre war is, under the current no testing rules too.
as for costs, really? compared to the engine farce, it's peanuts.
Scuffers said:
RYH64E said:
The only way a the war would work is if the teams had a free choice as to which tyre to use, on a race by race basis, otherwise it would be like having half the field running Mercedes engines and the other half having to use Honda.
and that illustrates the point in F1the way you're arguing is for a single make championship, where all the cars are the same.
Last time somebody tried that look what happened.
I don't see what the problem with a tyre war is, under the current no testing rules too.
as for costs, really? compared to the engine farce, it's peanuts.
With no testing its a great idea, some races one would get it right others they wouldn't.
The one issue is safety where by you don't want a 2003 US GP rerun, but this could be stopped by say FIA saying each manufacture must develop 1 hard tyre that can be taken to each track that will just work, maybe not be ultimate quick but would allow cars to race. then they are allowed to bring 2 other compounds which are their intended race compounds.
RYH64E said:
The only way a the war would work is if the teams had a free choice as to which tyre to use, on a race by race basis, otherwise it would be like having half the field running Mercedes engines and the other half having to use Honda.
Cant work like that, the cars are designed around a tyre, suspension, chassis dynamics, aero etc. You would loose too much time bolting on another manufactures tyre. Look back last tyre war, many £££millions spent moving from one tyre to another manufacture in terms of just new aero as the profile of the tyre was different.Agreed unsure Pirelli would stand up in open competition
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