Why are Lease Deals Frowned Up Particularly on Prestige Cars

[drainbrain]

Tractor lad said:

Oh thanks for the sage advice. We also wouldn't have been able to jump on numerous opportunities, we also wouldn't have the business we have today, we wouldn't have the rather amazing lifestyle. We'd be stuck in Bristol with a rubbish house. Rather than in a 5 bed house overlooking the sea that we might well buy one day.

I've heard the housing rubbish time and time again; we KNOW about the market, we have chosen another route. It upsets people that we could have bought a house but have instead decided to keep a house in the bank waiting either for the right place to come up or to emigrate with a chunk of money (or maybe something else?); it's just not been for us and I Iove the way people get so indignant. I pay nothing to the banks. I pay no interest. I have no debts (many forget that a mortgage is a huge loan). We don't obey "the system" Sorry if we haven't crawled up some ladder of debt and DIY but hey ho, most of Europe seems fine with it. So are we. We also have a big safety net if needed. Most home "owners" live on a precarious cliff edge. Of course we'd love to own the right house outright but that hasn't come up yet and we refuse to get a massive mortgage to maintain the same lifestyle except with non stop maintenance costs. It's not the norm but it works for us; why attack it?

Edited by Tractor lad on Saturday 4th July 21:22

Well I owe you a big THANK YOU, so here it is…….THANK YOU!!

Rather than selfishly using it to 'jump on numerous opportunities' you have chosen to invest your own hard earned money in a bank business which ain't well known for the generous returns they give their investors. And guess what? They've reinvested it in me to use to 'jump on numerous opportunities' because that's what they do with your donation and because I prefer to use OPM and to pay them a more generous return than they give you which is how they get a payday (for doing next to nothing). And guess what? I've re-reinvested it in something which pays a more generous return than I give them which is how I get my payday (for doing next to nothing). Part of my payday pays the monthly costs of the 458 and Cayman which she and I (some say don't) own which we keep in the garage of the house we (some say don't) own whose monthly instalment is also paid for with some of the payday which emanates from the same system of using the money you gave the bank which it gave to me.

So one way or another, I don't think I'd take money advice from you, but I've a lot to thank you for. If it wasn't for you and the others like you I'd never have had the money you unselfishly donated to the bank rather than use yourself and would never have been able to reinvest it and enjoy the returns (including the cars and house, also all obtained using OPM/bank money) which it provides. THANK YOU! Don't think it's not appreciated. It really is.

(By the way, I'll bet the bank have never said 'thank you' even once).

[Wacky Racer]

Tractor lad said:

I always find the "I can invest elsewhere" argument amusing.
Can the financial geniuses suggest place to invest our healthy pot currently mostly in ISAs earning sweet FA? Many thanks.

Depends on your personal circumstances.

If you run a good thriving business, you could invest £20,000 into additional stock and turn it into £30,000 in a very short time indeed (weeks not months), and I don't mean drug dealing.

I have always bought my cars since 1970, either with cash or finance, and lost thousands on depreciation over that time( eg 12k recently in twelve months on a new CLS bought for cash), but am coming round to thinking leasing could be the way to go.

My brother has just leased a new very high spec brand new Ford Kuga worth around £23k for £1200 down and £240pm in VAT over 2 years fully serviced.

It's nice to "own" your car, but definitely consider leasing.

[Granfondo]

drainbrain said:

Tractor lad said:

Oh thanks for the sage advice. We also wouldn't have been able to jump on numerous opportunities, we also wouldn't have the business we have today, we wouldn't have the rather amazing lifestyle. We'd be stuck in Bristol with a rubbish house. Rather than in a 5 bed house overlooking the sea that we might well buy one day.

I've heard the housing rubbish time and time again; we KNOW about the market, we have chosen another route. It upsets people that we could have bought a house but have instead decided to keep a house in the bank waiting either for the right place to come up or to emigrate with a chunk of money (or maybe something else?); it's just not been for us and I Iove the way people get so indignant. I pay nothing to the banks. I pay no interest. I have no debts (many forget that a mortgage is a huge loan). We don't obey "the system" Sorry if we haven't crawled up some ladder of debt and DIY but hey ho, most of Europe seems fine with it. So are we. We also have a big safety net if needed. Most home "owners" live on a precarious cliff edge. Of course we'd love to own the right house outright but that hasn't come up yet and we refuse to get a massive mortgage to maintain the same lifestyle except with non stop maintenance costs. It's not the norm but it works for us; why attack it?

Edited by Tractor lad on Saturday 4th July 21:22

Well I owe you a big THANK YOU, so here it is…….THANK YOU!!

Rather than selfishly using it to 'jump on numerous opportunities' you have chosen to invest your own hard earned money in a bank business which ain't well known for the generous returns they give their investors. And guess what? They've reinvested it in me to use to 'jump on numerous opportunities' because that's what they do with your donation and because I

prefer to use OPM and to pay them a more generous return than they give you which is how they get a payday (for doing next to nothing). And guess what? I've re-reinvested it in something which pays a more generous return than I give them which is how I get my payday (for doing next to nothing). Part of my payday pays the monthly costs of the 458 and Cayman which she and I (some say don't) own which we keep in the garage of the house we (some say don't) own whose monthly instalment is also paid for with some of the payday which emanates from the same system of using the money you gave the bank which it gave to me.

So one way or another, I don't think I'd take money advice from you, but I've a lot to thank you for. If it wasn't for you and the


others like you I'd never have had the money you unselfishly donated to the bank rather than use yourself and would never have been able to reinvest it and enjoy the returns (including the cars and house, also all obtained using OPM/bank money) which it provides. THANK YOU! Don't think it's not appreciated. It really is.

(By the way, I'll bet the bank have never said 'thank you' even once).

All we need is Lord Lucan to turn up and we have the whole set!

Welcome back. vlad and Groak.

[drainbrain]

DonkeyApple said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Tractor lad said:

I always find the "I can invest elsewhere" argument amusing.
Can the financial geniuses suggest place to invest our healthy pot currently mostly in ISAs earning sweet FA? Many thanks.

+1

If that argument is correct, why bother with the car at all? Why not just borrow to invest?

Exactly. as I said earlier, that's a farcical justification as anyone who can obtain those types of yield would never need debt.

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but isn't that exactly what we who borrow for business purposes do? (borrow to invest).

[IntriguedUser]

Because the owners of said prestige cars believe that they're the st and are better than you, when really I just dont want to spend 3/400 per month

[sealtt]

I wouldn't really care how I paid for my car, if I could get a cheap lease deal I'd have definitely leased my car rather than bought it. You still drive it and will change it in a year or three anyway, don't really see what difference it makes. Costs a load of money whatever you do, but nicer to buy without having to take a big chunk in bonus / dividend and get hit with a hefty income tax bill as well!

IntriguedUser said:

Because the owners of said prestige cars believe that they're the st and are better than you, when really I just dont want to spend 3/400 per month

I think prestige cars cost more like £1200+ per month to lease...

[Granfondo]

IntriguedUser said:

Because the owners of said prestige cars believe that they're the st and are better than you, when really I just dont want to spend 3/400 per month

Or pay for your fuel!

[jjr1]

ORD said:

daemon said:

So like buying a new car with cash then?

A bit more expensive than buying a new car every two years, yes. So extremely expensive!

Written by someone not fully aware of the facts but has all the answers.

Some leases may be more expensive than a private purchase but some are not. Don't let the facts lead you away from your contrived bullst though.

[Dr Jekyll]

drainbrain said:

DonkeyApple said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Tractor lad said:

I always find the "I can invest elsewhere" argument amusing.
Can the financial geniuses suggest place to invest our healthy pot currently mostly in ISAs earning sweet FA? Many thanks.

+1

If that argument is correct, why bother with the car at all? Why not just borrow to invest?

Exactly. as I said earlier, that's a farcical justification as anyone who can obtain those types of yield would never need debt.

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but isn't that exactly what we who borrow for business purposes do? (borrow to invest).

Of course, but most car leasers don't, they wait until they want a shiny new car before borrowing.
Business don't wait until they want a new 320d and then borrow in the form of a car loan/lease/pcp/hp or whatever, they just borrow for the investment. That is totally different from someone financing a car and leaving their 30k in cash on the assumption that they are bound to make more money than the leasing finance firm makes.

These people who say they finance to avoid sinking their savings into a depreciating asset don't seem to accept that they are really sinking their savings into a depreciating asset, then taking out a loan to replenish their savings account.

[Tractor lad]

drainbrain said:

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but isn't that exactly what we who borrow for business purposes do? (borrow to invest).

We've never borrowed anything for our business.

[wemorgan]

TL:

1. A decent ISA will have grown 80-100% over the past 5 years. Therefore by investing in ISA and underperforming ones especially you have inadvertently given money to the banks.
2. Only a 38% of UK households have a mortgage. That's a minority then.
3. Only 14% of home owners described their mortgage as a burden. So that's not 'most', but 'few'

You've made your choices others have made theirs, deal with it. It reads like you've a chip on your shoulder.

[Tractor lad]

No chip; just heard it all before.
Funny how everyone thinks they're a financial and business genius on PH.

The reality is very different.

Anyway I'm off to the beach again.

[wemorgan]

Tractor lad said:

Funny how everyone thinks they're a financial and business genius on PH.

I'm no genius. The ISA I speak of are off the shelf products with low fees. Even a FTSE All-share tracker has grown 60-80% over the past 5 years.

[Limpet]

Staggering thread. I can't believe how many people choose to explain, justify or boast about their personal financial circumstances with strangers on the interweb. An entertaining if slightly disturbing read over my Weetabix this morning. I paid cash for the Weetabix and milk by the way....

[Tractor lad]

wemorgan said:

I'm no genius. The ISA I speak of are off the shelf products with low fees. Even a FTSE All-share tracker has grown 60-80% over the past 5 years.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Assume you also bought a mk1 Escort 20 years ago, a Sierra Cosworth, an E30 M3 ten years ago, etc?

[wemorgan]

Tractor lad said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Assume you also bought a mk1 Escort 20 years ago, a Sierra Cosworth, an E30 M3 ten years ago, etc?

You're missing the point, there's nothing special about investing to a FTSE All-share tracker - it's the default choice for those not wanting to spend time researching and actively managing their investments. There's no rational comparison to buying a future classic car. Like it or not you have given money to the banks which have failed to give an average return. Time to get off your high horse and accept you've made duff choices like most of use here. You win some, you lose some.

You seem happy with your financial choices which is all that matters. But don't deny other people's which may be better or worse for their own circumstances.

[GreenArrow]

Having a laugh reading the posts on this thread..lots of handbag waving and people justifying their financial actions to others that they will never meet on a public forum.

Anyway, I have no problem with people leasing these prestige cars, I guess if my circumstances were different I could be tempted to lease too; just don't drive up behind me in my cheap 10 year old Japanese car that I own outright, like you're better than me and that I should move over. If you want to spend £4000- £8000 a year on a car you will never own, then fine! Its a free country after all!

[Tractor lad]

wemorgan said:

You're missing the point, there's nothing special about investing to a FTSE All-share tracker - it's the default choice for those not wanting to spend time researching and actively managing their investments. There's no rational comparison to buying a future classic car. Like it or not you have given money to the banks which have failed to give an average return. Time to get off your high horse and accept you've made duff choices like most of use here. You win some, you lose some.

You seem happy with your financial choices which is all that matters. But don't deny other people's which may be better or worse for their own circumstances.

Fair comments.

[leglessAlex]

I'm not sure about this, but for those wanting proof of the costs didn't some people do the math on the Golf R and it came out that leasing really, actually was a decent deal when comparing against buying cash and the expected three year depreciation?

I'm not sure it really matters as long as people have done the maths for what they want and considered all the options. I guess I'm a bit 'Victorian' as someone here put it despite being young, I'd generally lean towards buying a car outright. However, I am usually interested in second hand cars, if there was a new car I really wanted and the maths told me it would be cheaper to lease then I think I'd be a fool not to. I probably won't ever be super rich so I'd be more than happy to take the saving if it was sitting there.

[Dr Jekyll]

wemorgan said:

Tractor lad said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Assume you also bought a mk1 Escort 20 years ago, a Sierra Cosworth, an E30 M3 ten years ago, etc?

You're missing the point, there's nothing special about investing to a FTSE All-share tracker - it's the default choice for those not wanting to spend time researching and actively managing their investments. There's no rational comparison to buying a future classic car. Like it or not you have given money to the banks which have failed to give an average return. Time to get off your high horse and accept you've made duff choices like most of use here. You win some, you lose some.

But there is something special about choosing to sink your money into a tracker because you've predicted correctly that it will rise dramatically over the next few years. I had money in a tracker that benefitted from that rise, but I don't fool myself into thinking I'm a financial genius who should lease cars because I can make more on my savings. I was lucky, that's all.