This is desperately sad and upsetting (Greek Crisis)

This is desperately sad and upsetting (Greek Crisis)

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Discussion

doosht

Original Poster:

200 posts

155 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/crying-gree...

It's times like this i really wish i was rich as i would damn well make sure this guy was alright.

Sadly, i'm on less than minimum wage (as a director of a declining business) and living at my mums as all my equity was lost in the split up with my son's mum and cant even afford to rent a place yet.

It really makes me want to do something to help. 77 years old - so sad. Imagine if it was your father. The desperation is gut wrenching.

There must be something we can do?

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
It is a very sad sight to see, someone came up with a figure (few quid) last week that if everyone in GB donated it would pull them out of the st.

Foppo

2,344 posts

123 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Don't make a mistake what happens in Greece can happen anywhere.Spain is not far behind with all their problems.The majority of European bank money what went into Greece the rich got.A bit like a revolving door.The rich are richer and the poor poorer.

Everybody for themselves and God for us all is the financial elite motto.

KemP

492 posts

206 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Evoluzione said:
It is a very sad sight to see, someone came up with a figure (few quid) last week that if everyone in GB donated it would pull them out of the st.
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.

Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.




doosht

Original Poster:

200 posts

155 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.

Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree with all that, but people like this man have probably done nothing wrong.

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Maybe .... just maybe - if Greek Governments were actually were serious about collecting taxes....

But they have never been - and are still not.


It is like an alcoholic.
You can't help them until they recognise - that they have a problem - and it involves not drinking.

Or in this case....

Collect taxes/ VAT etc.
Retirement age increased from 62 to 65-67 etc
No final salary pension.
etc
etc
etc


Greece will need help for a long time, but....they have to be prepared to change everything they are used to.



Heck... even the big 5 consulting companies are corrupt.
I have had - from a partner of a big 5 in Greece "If you award company x ( another big 5 consulting company) the contract, we have an agreement that they can sub-contract it to our IT team, then we can audit it, and we can provide a bonus for me as an individual.

The corruption is endemic.

The answer is not simply just giving more money. The culture, and attititudes to taxation, anti-corruption etc etc must change.

Otherwise.... nothing will change.

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.

Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree it is a totally stty situation, however the situation is more complex than just what happens when people don't pay the taxes due.
I recently learned that while we in the UK spend about 2% of GDP or thereabouts on our military, Greece spent nearer 6% (maybe not the best use of their money, I know) but what is the clincher is who they spent the lion's share of their money with - any guesses?
It was Germany, the very same Germany that forced Greece to take out billions (at today's prices) of loans to fund the German occupation of Greece, which they never paid back.
The very same Germany who are insisting that Greece should not be allowed to renegotiate the terms of their current debt. Angela Merkel should resign and hang her head in shame.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
doosht said:
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.

Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree with all that, but people like this man have probably done nothing wrong.
From the article, the criticisms above do not apply to this chap. He would appear to be a victim. A miner and foundry worker. Not likely to piss it all away I would have thought.

Whether it is the fault of the politicians or those with authority, it would seem that this chap needs money from abroad.

There does not seem to be an suggestion that this bloke has overspent.

It seems likely that someone has taken the cream off the top, and it ain't him.

He states he was crying for his country. I see his point.


doosht

Original Poster:

200 posts

155 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
From the article, the criticisms above do not apply to this chap. He would appear to be a victim. A miner and foundry worker. Not likely to piss it all away I would have thought.

Whether it is the fault of the politicians or those with authority, it would seem that this chap needs money from abroad.

There does not seem to be an suggestion that this bloke has overspent.

It seems likely that someone has taken the cream off the top, and it ain't him.

He states he was crying for his country. I see his point.

Exactly Sir. I think folk have been missing the point of this post.

superkartracer

8,959 posts

221 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
KemP said:
Evoluzione said:
It is a very sad sight to see, someone came up with a figure (few quid) last week that if everyone in GB donated it would pull them out of the st.
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.
Sounds like the UK in a few years, we still borrow billions a week.

Luke Warm

496 posts

143 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
It's always sad when an old man cries but this chap has lived the dream.

His grandchildren will live the nightmare.

doosht

Original Poster:

200 posts

155 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Luke Warm said:
It's always sad when an old man cries but this chap has lived the dream.

His grandchildren will live the nightmare.
maybe i'm just too soft then smile

Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
I'm not sure those who should care actually do about such people. They almost get looked down upon as a PR disaster when the focus is on keeping the Euro project alive.

By the way, how did Greece get by before its Euro entry ?

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Debt relief isn't always the answer

It often depends who holds the purse strings

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/732971.stm

I'm not saying this would happen in Greece, I'm saying it probably already has.


anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
It's a horrible scene and expect it to be repeated many more times from now. It's interesting that there are still so many people, even on this forum, who still think NR, Lloyds and RBS should have been allowed to fail!

ian in lancs

3,769 posts

197 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Whilst the causal factors are as said above it is the ordinary Greeks that are suffering big-time. The queues around the working cashpoints are getting longer and in the town centre ones there are security guards maintaining order. Nowhere is taking plastic nd there were queues around the petrol stations but as they are now only taking cash most are deserted - food or fuel I suppose. The tourists aren't here in force yet so everywhere is quiet, especially the shops - few are buying more than the essentials. The wheels have clearly fallen off; the circle of funds is not circulating. A situation that can't continue. Quite how they fix it (capitalisation and flow of funds and austerity) without making it worse is anybodies guess. Not good, not good at all.

Edited by ian in lancs on Sunday 5th July 07:04

longshot

3,286 posts

197 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
I'm in Greece at the moment. The people are scared.
It is their No1 topic of conversation and simply don't know what to do for the best.

There is much talk of corrupt politicians lining their own pockets and huge amounts of Euro zone money disappearing.

One man said how he is going to vote no but his mother who would have done is having to vote yes because she is a pensioner and her future is uncertain.

She used to live in her own house but now her and her sister have been forced to live in one house together to be able to make ends meet.

All our bar/restaurant bills come to round Euro totals because no-one can get change from the banks.
Store owners are telling how they no longer can have credit from suppliers who want paying up front for anything they have.
No money up front, no stock.

There is graffiti here and there saying "fk No!"
Give you a fair indication of the mood out here.

Goodness knows what will happen tomorrow and what it will bring.





KemP

492 posts

206 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
I agree it is a totally stty situation, however the situation is more complex than just what happens when people don't pay the taxes due.
I recently learned that while we in the UK spend about 2% of GDP or thereabouts on our military, Greece spent nearer 6% (maybe not the best use of their money, I know) but what is the clincher is who they spent the lion's share of their money with - any guesses?
It was Germany, the very same Germany that forced Greece to take out billions (at today's prices) of loans to fund the German occupation of Greece, which they never paid back.
The very same Germany who are insisting that Greece should not be allowed to renegotiate the terms of their current debt. Angela Merkel should resign and hang her head in shame.
Why should they be allowed to renegotiate the terms? They knew what they were signing up for when they borrowed the money. If I default on paying my mortgage I would expect the bank to take the house from me. I wouldn't expect to hold a vote within the house hold so see if i was going to except the house being taken and then renegotiate with the bank.
.

Who do you think should pick up the tab for Greece? Or do you think we should keep throwing money at them? Remember they defaulted on the interest payment not the loan its self

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
H
Luke Warm said:
It's always sad when an old man cries but this chap has lived the dream.

His grandchildren will live the nightmare.
I can't really see that this man has lived the dream.

Fishtigua

9,786 posts

194 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
Many southern EU countries should never been allowed to join the Euro. Their economy was a dead duck from the start, they manufacture very little and import tons.

The bigwigs at the EU wanted a Grande Europe, so wanted all countries to join the Euro. The Greek/Spanish/Portugues/Italian politicos lied their butts off about debts and income. The EU knew this but still allowed them to join. This creationism from the Germans and the French has come back to bite them in the arse.

It's all the EU's own fault for trying to manufacture parity between such hugely diverse rich or massively in debt economies.