This is desperately sad and upsetting (Greek Crisis)
Discussion
http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/crying-gree...
It's times like this i really wish i was rich as i would damn well make sure this guy was alright.
Sadly, i'm on less than minimum wage (as a director of a declining business) and living at my mums as all my equity was lost in the split up with my son's mum and cant even afford to rent a place yet.
It really makes me want to do something to help. 77 years old - so sad. Imagine if it was your father. The desperation is gut wrenching.
There must be something we can do?
It's times like this i really wish i was rich as i would damn well make sure this guy was alright.
Sadly, i'm on less than minimum wage (as a director of a declining business) and living at my mums as all my equity was lost in the split up with my son's mum and cant even afford to rent a place yet.
It really makes me want to do something to help. 77 years old - so sad. Imagine if it was your father. The desperation is gut wrenching.
There must be something we can do?
Don't make a mistake what happens in Greece can happen anywhere.Spain is not far behind with all their problems.The majority of European bank money what went into Greece the rich got.A bit like a revolving door.The rich are richer and the poor poorer.
Everybody for themselves and God for us all is the financial elite motto.
Everybody for themselves and God for us all is the financial elite motto.
Evoluzione said:
It is a very sad sight to see, someone came up with a figure (few quid) last week that if everyone in GB donated it would pull them out of the st.
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self. Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.
Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree with all that, but people like this man have probably done nothing wrong.Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
Maybe .... just maybe - if Greek Governments were actually were serious about collecting taxes....
But they have never been - and are still not.
It is like an alcoholic.
You can't help them until they recognise - that they have a problem - and it involves not drinking.
Or in this case....
Collect taxes/ VAT etc.
Retirement age increased from 62 to 65-67 etc
No final salary pension.
etc
etc
etc
Greece will need help for a long time, but....they have to be prepared to change everything they are used to.
Heck... even the big 5 consulting companies are corrupt.
I have had - from a partner of a big 5 in Greece "If you award company x ( another big 5 consulting company) the contract, we have an agreement that they can sub-contract it to our IT team, then we can audit it, and we can provide a bonus for me as an individual.
The corruption is endemic.
The answer is not simply just giving more money. The culture, and attititudes to taxation, anti-corruption etc etc must change.
Otherwise.... nothing will change.
But they have never been - and are still not.
It is like an alcoholic.
You can't help them until they recognise - that they have a problem - and it involves not drinking.
Or in this case....
Collect taxes/ VAT etc.
Retirement age increased from 62 to 65-67 etc
No final salary pension.
etc
etc
etc
Greece will need help for a long time, but....they have to be prepared to change everything they are used to.
Heck... even the big 5 consulting companies are corrupt.
I have had - from a partner of a big 5 in Greece "If you award company x ( another big 5 consulting company) the contract, we have an agreement that they can sub-contract it to our IT team, then we can audit it, and we can provide a bonus for me as an individual.
The corruption is endemic.
The answer is not simply just giving more money. The culture, and attititudes to taxation, anti-corruption etc etc must change.
Otherwise.... nothing will change.
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.
Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree it is a totally stty situation, however the situation is more complex than just what happens when people don't pay the taxes due. Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I recently learned that while we in the UK spend about 2% of GDP or thereabouts on our military, Greece spent nearer 6% (maybe not the best use of their money, I know) but what is the clincher is who they spent the lion's share of their money with - any guesses?
It was Germany, the very same Germany that forced Greece to take out billions (at today's prices) of loans to fund the German occupation of Greece, which they never paid back.
The very same Germany who are insisting that Greece should not be allowed to renegotiate the terms of their current debt. Angela Merkel should resign and hang her head in shame.
doosht said:
KemP said:
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self.
Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
I agree with all that, but people like this man have probably done nothing wrong.Its a really stty situation for sure but giving them more money isnt going to solve it.
Whether it is the fault of the politicians or those with authority, it would seem that this chap needs money from abroad.
There does not seem to be an suggestion that this bloke has overspent.
It seems likely that someone has taken the cream off the top, and it ain't him.
He states he was crying for his country. I see his point.
Derek Smith said:
From the article, the criticisms above do not apply to this chap. He would appear to be a victim. A miner and foundry worker. Not likely to piss it all away I would have thought.
Whether it is the fault of the politicians or those with authority, it would seem that this chap needs money from abroad.
There does not seem to be an suggestion that this bloke has overspent.
It seems likely that someone has taken the cream off the top, and it ain't him.
He states he was crying for his country. I see his point.
Exactly Sir. I think folk have been missing the point of this post.Whether it is the fault of the politicians or those with authority, it would seem that this chap needs money from abroad.
There does not seem to be an suggestion that this bloke has overspent.
It seems likely that someone has taken the cream off the top, and it ain't him.
He states he was crying for his country. I see his point.
KemP said:
Evoluzione said:
It is a very sad sight to see, someone came up with a figure (few quid) last week that if everyone in GB donated it would pull them out of the st.
And what happens when they piss it all away next week and need more? They have over spent every thing they borrowed and now cannot pay it the interest on the loan let alone the loan its self. Debt relief isn't always the answer
It often depends who holds the purse strings
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/732971.stm
I'm not saying this would happen in Greece, I'm saying it probably already has.
It often depends who holds the purse strings
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/732971.stm
I'm not saying this would happen in Greece, I'm saying it probably already has.
Whilst the causal factors are as said above it is the ordinary Greeks that are suffering big-time. The queues around the working cashpoints are getting longer and in the town centre ones there are security guards maintaining order. Nowhere is taking plastic nd there were queues around the petrol stations but as they are now only taking cash most are deserted - food or fuel I suppose. The tourists aren't here in force yet so everywhere is quiet, especially the shops - few are buying more than the essentials. The wheels have clearly fallen off; the circle of funds is not circulating. A situation that can't continue. Quite how they fix it (capitalisation and flow of funds and austerity) without making it worse is anybodies guess. Not good, not good at all.
Edited by ian in lancs on Sunday 5th July 07:04
I'm in Greece at the moment. The people are scared.
It is their No1 topic of conversation and simply don't know what to do for the best.
There is much talk of corrupt politicians lining their own pockets and huge amounts of Euro zone money disappearing.
One man said how he is going to vote no but his mother who would have done is having to vote yes because she is a pensioner and her future is uncertain.
She used to live in her own house but now her and her sister have been forced to live in one house together to be able to make ends meet.
All our bar/restaurant bills come to round Euro totals because no-one can get change from the banks.
Store owners are telling how they no longer can have credit from suppliers who want paying up front for anything they have.
No money up front, no stock.
There is graffiti here and there saying "fk No!"
Give you a fair indication of the mood out here.
Goodness knows what will happen tomorrow and what it will bring.
It is their No1 topic of conversation and simply don't know what to do for the best.
There is much talk of corrupt politicians lining their own pockets and huge amounts of Euro zone money disappearing.
One man said how he is going to vote no but his mother who would have done is having to vote yes because she is a pensioner and her future is uncertain.
She used to live in her own house but now her and her sister have been forced to live in one house together to be able to make ends meet.
All our bar/restaurant bills come to round Euro totals because no-one can get change from the banks.
Store owners are telling how they no longer can have credit from suppliers who want paying up front for anything they have.
No money up front, no stock.
There is graffiti here and there saying "fk No!"
Give you a fair indication of the mood out here.
Goodness knows what will happen tomorrow and what it will bring.
xjsdriver said:
I agree it is a totally stty situation, however the situation is more complex than just what happens when people don't pay the taxes due.
I recently learned that while we in the UK spend about 2% of GDP or thereabouts on our military, Greece spent nearer 6% (maybe not the best use of their money, I know) but what is the clincher is who they spent the lion's share of their money with - any guesses?
It was Germany, the very same Germany that forced Greece to take out billions (at today's prices) of loans to fund the German occupation of Greece, which they never paid back.
The very same Germany who are insisting that Greece should not be allowed to renegotiate the terms of their current debt. Angela Merkel should resign and hang her head in shame.
Why should they be allowed to renegotiate the terms? They knew what they were signing up for when they borrowed the money. If I default on paying my mortgage I would expect the bank to take the house from me. I wouldn't expect to hold a vote within the house hold so see if i was going to except the house being taken and then renegotiate with the bank.I recently learned that while we in the UK spend about 2% of GDP or thereabouts on our military, Greece spent nearer 6% (maybe not the best use of their money, I know) but what is the clincher is who they spent the lion's share of their money with - any guesses?
It was Germany, the very same Germany that forced Greece to take out billions (at today's prices) of loans to fund the German occupation of Greece, which they never paid back.
The very same Germany who are insisting that Greece should not be allowed to renegotiate the terms of their current debt. Angela Merkel should resign and hang her head in shame.
.
Who do you think should pick up the tab for Greece? Or do you think we should keep throwing money at them? Remember they defaulted on the interest payment not the loan its self
Many southern EU countries should never been allowed to join the Euro. Their economy was a dead duck from the start, they manufacture very little and import tons.
The bigwigs at the EU wanted a Grande Europe, so wanted all countries to join the Euro. The Greek/Spanish/Portugues/Italian politicos lied their butts off about debts and income. The EU knew this but still allowed them to join. This creationism from the Germans and the French has come back to bite them in the arse.
It's all the EU's own fault for trying to manufacture parity between such hugely diverse rich or massively in debt economies.
The bigwigs at the EU wanted a Grande Europe, so wanted all countries to join the Euro. The Greek/Spanish/Portugues/Italian politicos lied their butts off about debts and income. The EU knew this but still allowed them to join. This creationism from the Germans and the French has come back to bite them in the arse.
It's all the EU's own fault for trying to manufacture parity between such hugely diverse rich or massively in debt economies.
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