This is desperately sad and upsetting (Greek Crisis)
Discussion
When your entire poplulation seem hell bent on not paying their fair share of tax, what do you expect.
Retiring at 45 on a final salary pension.
Reckless borrowing to purchase things you don't need and can't afford.
Welcome to the world of greed, selfishness and wanting something for nothing.
Jog on.
Retiring at 45 on a final salary pension.
Reckless borrowing to purchase things you don't need and can't afford.
Welcome to the world of greed, selfishness and wanting something for nothing.
Jog on.
Have a look at this video of the voting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33399718
The Greeks might be skint but that won't stop them putting their voting papers into expensive looking envelopes and employing polling station people to write down lots of really interesting detail in a big book.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33399718
The Greeks might be skint but that won't stop them putting their voting papers into expensive looking envelopes and employing polling station people to write down lots of really interesting detail in a big book.
Interesting bullit points from that BBC page.
Lenders' proposals: Key sticking points
VAT (sales tax): Alexis Tsipras accepts a new three-tier system, but wants to keep 30% discount on the Greek islands' VAT rates. Lenders want the islands' discounts scrapped
Pensions: Ekas top-up grant for some 200,000 poorer pensioners will be phased out by 2020 - as demanded by lenders. But Mr Tsipras says no to immediate Ekas cut for the wealthiest 20% of Ekas recipients
Defence: Mr Tsipras says reduce ceiling for military spending by €200m in 2016 and €400m in 2017. Lenders call for €400m reduction - no mention of €200m.
In code, this means the Ostrich is in charge of navigation and only headed in one direction.
Lenders' proposals: Key sticking points
VAT (sales tax): Alexis Tsipras accepts a new three-tier system, but wants to keep 30% discount on the Greek islands' VAT rates. Lenders want the islands' discounts scrapped
Pensions: Ekas top-up grant for some 200,000 poorer pensioners will be phased out by 2020 - as demanded by lenders. But Mr Tsipras says no to immediate Ekas cut for the wealthiest 20% of Ekas recipients
Defence: Mr Tsipras says reduce ceiling for military spending by €200m in 2016 and €400m in 2017. Lenders call for €400m reduction - no mention of €200m.
In code, this means the Ostrich is in charge of navigation and only headed in one direction.
Fishtigua said:
Interesting bullit points from that BBC page.
Lenders' proposals: Key sticking points
VAT (sales tax): Alexis Tsipras accepts a new three-tier system, but wants to keep 30% discount on the Greek islands' VAT rates. Lenders want the islands' discounts scrapped
Pensions: Ekas top-up grant for some 200,000 poorer pensioners will be phased out by 2020 - as demanded by lenders. But Mr Tsipras says no to immediate Ekas cut for the wealthiest 20% of Ekas recipients
Defence: Mr Tsipras says reduce ceiling for military spending by €200m in 2016 and €400m in 2017. Lenders call for €400m reduction - no mention of €200m.
In code, this means the Ostrich is in charge of navigation and only headed in one direction.
Either an ostrich or he's under orders. Lenders' proposals: Key sticking points
VAT (sales tax): Alexis Tsipras accepts a new three-tier system, but wants to keep 30% discount on the Greek islands' VAT rates. Lenders want the islands' discounts scrapped
Pensions: Ekas top-up grant for some 200,000 poorer pensioners will be phased out by 2020 - as demanded by lenders. But Mr Tsipras says no to immediate Ekas cut for the wealthiest 20% of Ekas recipients
Defence: Mr Tsipras says reduce ceiling for military spending by €200m in 2016 and €400m in 2017. Lenders call for €400m reduction - no mention of €200m.
In code, this means the Ostrich is in charge of navigation and only headed in one direction.
Why are the Greeks so pissed off at the Germans, are they meant to just keep stumping up cash and say nothing ?
I suppose that sometimes you get to a point and your position is untenable, if a nation is not productive, over generous, corrupt and allowed to avoid tax wholesale then eventually the lenders will tire of it, sorry but Greece looks likely to wither and die, hopefully to be reborn as something viable in future.
We need to look at their example, I think we are trying to, the welfare state is overburdened and too expensive, it is now for some a lifestyle choice, in the animal kingdom if you don't muck in and catch your dinner, you die.
I really feel sorry for the Greeks, most wont have understood that retiring at 50 on a huge pension is not sustainable, the money saved on tax, they wont see it as affecting the bottom line and we have a similar mindset here, nobody really gives a toss about the countries success as long as they have their personal gratification.
I suppose that sometimes you get to a point and your position is untenable, if a nation is not productive, over generous, corrupt and allowed to avoid tax wholesale then eventually the lenders will tire of it, sorry but Greece looks likely to wither and die, hopefully to be reborn as something viable in future.
We need to look at their example, I think we are trying to, the welfare state is overburdened and too expensive, it is now for some a lifestyle choice, in the animal kingdom if you don't muck in and catch your dinner, you die.
I really feel sorry for the Greeks, most wont have understood that retiring at 50 on a huge pension is not sustainable, the money saved on tax, they wont see it as affecting the bottom line and we have a similar mindset here, nobody really gives a toss about the countries success as long as they have their personal gratification.
forgive me for being naive and simplistic, but the way I always thought this(Europe's economy) would work is this...
currency goes up and down in value according to how well the economy is doing.
The better it does, the more it is worth, so the less other countries can afford to buy from it. When the economy does worse the currency becomes worth less, and so other countries can buy things from there for cheaper. So essentially self-regulating.
Then when you put all the economies together, you remove the ability of this currency fluctuation. so a country doing well will keep on increasing, without the currency value changing there is nothing to bring it into check.
On the other side of the coin are the poorer countries, who can never sell their products because their currency is worth exactly the same as the wealthy ones without the investment the wealthy countries are getting.
Exactly what has happened with Germany and Greece.
Am I wrong here?
currency goes up and down in value according to how well the economy is doing.
The better it does, the more it is worth, so the less other countries can afford to buy from it. When the economy does worse the currency becomes worth less, and so other countries can buy things from there for cheaper. So essentially self-regulating.
Then when you put all the economies together, you remove the ability of this currency fluctuation. so a country doing well will keep on increasing, without the currency value changing there is nothing to bring it into check.
On the other side of the coin are the poorer countries, who can never sell their products because their currency is worth exactly the same as the wealthy ones without the investment the wealthy countries are getting.
Exactly what has happened with Germany and Greece.
Am I wrong here?
kapiteinlangzaam said:
It infuriates me somewhat to see the 'NO' campaigners singing and dancing in the streets like they just won the lotto.
They really, really haven't.
It reminds me of when I was in the South, OJ Simpson was found not guilty.They really, really haven't.
Some danced around singing "We won, we won".
Won what?
Beating "The Man"?
Germans may still look down, a lot, at immigrants from Greece and Turkey who live in Germany. They were the first wave of immigrant labour before more eductated Easterners became a ready workforce. They are now a homegrown millstone for their domestic welfare system. There is some mild racism involved in this that some may not know about.
jsf said:
Give the Greek people more credit (not financial), they are well aware they have a lot of pain ahead. They have been given the opportunity to reject the current medicine prescribed, that doesn't mean they don't know they still have to find another way to deal with the illness.
What, like this? - totally delusional. The creditors are not going to eat humble pie, at least, i hope not. What an example to the other spendthrift nations.'Greece’s labour minister, Panos Skourletis, has reacted to the results, and hailed the outcome as a very good thing for democracy.
“The goverment can go now with a very strong card to continue negotiations [with creditors],” he told reporters outside the prime minister’s office.
NicD said:
jsf said:
Its not about eating humble pie, its about finding a solution to a problem that is realistic.
Been obvious to all for years.Either accept the hard medicine or leave the Euro.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff