Tube Strike

[AMG Merc]

walm said:

FFS we're about to have self driving cars.
A fricking automated train set can't be anything like as hard.

Stick up a wall with doors along the platform, like the Westminster Jubilee Line, if you're worried about drunk muppets on the track and computers can't see them.

Agree

[itannum990]

Munter said:

itannum990 said:

Except that running slow into stations causes so many knock on delays,

As I said, a reduced service is better than no service. Which would only come about IF the automated system needed more help than the stand in CCTV operators could provide during a strike.

I didn't read the rest of your post. If you're not going to read and/or comprehend the basics of what I'm typing. There is little point. It's bound to be more poorly thought though excuses about the need for drivers.

Cost is the only reason. Technically it can be done. It can be done cheaper this year than it could last year. The more strikes (and a poor service compared to an automated system), put up the cost of not doing it, and the cheaper it gets to do it, then the sooner it will happen. But it could be done with todays technology.

'Interesting' attitude, towards someone who's basically agreeing with you.

[technodup]

walm said:

FFS we're about to have self driving cars.
A fricking automated train set can't be anything like as hard.

Stick up a wall with doors along the platform, like the Westminster Jubilee Line, if you're worried about drunk muppets on the track and computers can't see them.

Yep. Glasgow's tube is a wee diddy circle but at Ibrox due to the football crowds has a perspex barrier to stop people falling on the track. It's not train side but it wouldn't take a genius to put it at the edge and have gaps to line up with the doors. Or even have doors itself which open at the same time as the train doors.

Yes it'll take decades, yes it'll cost a fortune but it can be done. And ultimately it will be done. In a hundred years time train driver won't be a career choice for kids, it'll be a history lesson.

[C.A.R.]

AMG Merc said:

walm said:

FFS we're about to have self driving cars.
A fricking automated train set can't be anything like as hard.

Stick up a wall with doors along the platform, like the Westminster Jubilee Line, if you're worried about drunk muppets on the track and computers can't see them.

Agree

Exactly this - it's what would be mandatory for an automated system I reckon.



Why risk human error with a tolerance of +/- 250mm when a computerised system could probably consistently maintain less?

[Rick101]

Love how people are happily deciding how we spend the counties limited funds. Considering the arguments that have been going on about how much HS2 could cost I don't see the tube being changed to driverless anytime soon.

[BJG1]

Rick101 said:

Love how people are happily deciding how we spend the counties limited funds. Considering the arguments that have been going on about how much HS2 could cost I don't see the tube being changed to driverless anytime soon.

To be fair the original point was that "a computer can't do these things" and people have just pointed out that it can. That doesn't mean we should be doing it straight away but automated railways would be better than human manned ones if done properly. Like you I have no faith that we could do something so big in this country though without pissing away 10s of billions and then probably killing people after because Bob forgot to put a sensor in.

[Impasse]

Today sees yet another 24 hour strike begin at 6:30 this evening. Good luck Londoners. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/tube-strike

[Smollet]

There was a union delegate on BBC Breakfast this morning saying it wasn't about money however in the next breath said the overnight tubes would probably generate an extra £350m a year for London and that benefit should be shared with all conferenced. Make your fking mind up. I gather they'll get an extra £200 per shift for working nights.

Edited by Smollet on Wednesday 5th August 06:56

[truck71]

Whilst it's a ballache dealing with the strikes I hope TFL don't back down here; I'd rather tolerate a bit of inconvenience and have them show some backbone against a bunch of greedy militants. If they keep rolling over it simply proves the union tactics work. As has been mentioned numerous times already, if these people had a genuine cause I'd have sympathy; they don't and I don't.

[Du1point8]

To try to reassure staff, LU has just sent out draft copies of what new shift-patterns might look like. It says staff will either work the same number of weekends a year, or fewer. And in the end, anyone who doesn't want to work nights won't have to.

Unions have still said its not fair and demand changes.

Plus they are demanding ticket offices back, this despite the fact I hardly ever saw them open and most people don't use them as they have oyster/contactless, the ticket machines are hardly rocket science to use.

[eccles]

Du1point8 said:

And in the end, anyone who doesn't want to work nights won't have to.

I remember such promises when sunday trading started!

[Transmitter Man]

Smollet said:

There was a union delegate on BBC Breakfast this morning saying it wasn't about money however in the next breath said the overnight tubes would probably generate an extra £350m a year for London and that benefit should be shared with all conferenced. Make your fking mind up. I gather they'll get an extra £200 per shift for working nights.

Edited by Smollet on Wednesday 5th August 06:56

Can we not do an 'Eddie Shah' and sort this out once & for all?

Phil

[crankedup]

Many of these posts point to replacing the current system over to a technology reliant method. Fine until the software develops a glitch. Built in fail safe! didn't work on a funfair ride recently, no thanks I would rather have a person in charge of the train.

[KTF]

crankedup said:

Many of these posts point to replacing the current system over to a technology reliant method. Fine until the software develops a glitch. Built in fail safe! didn't work on a funfair ride recently, no thanks I would rather have a person in charge of the train.

I thought the person in charge of the 'train' at alton towers over-rode the fail safe?

[RichB]

crankedup said:

... I would rather have a person in charge of the train.

But CU, does that mean you would not use the Docklands Light Railway (DLR)?

[MrBarry123]

As a Conservative voter and continued supporter...

I've had a [very] slight change of thought around this...

I do actually feel sorry for people such as tube drivers who, whilst earning a relatively good wage, are simply not able to live anywhere near to where they work due to rising house prices in the centre of London. The same applies to teachers, the Police etc. They all provide a valuable service (one we would all be worse off without) however end up in a financially less than ideal situation as a result of facilitating that service.

As such, whilst I don't believe a strike will help to solve anything, I do have a degree of sympathy when they say that working in the centre of London becomes almost unsustainable.

I remember there was a thread on here a while back discussing the viability of living in London on a £60k wage where the general consensus was yes, as long as you weren't wanting to be a baller. Given a large proportion of these workers have families, I would hazard a guess that living in London on £60k and with a family is like something out of Oliver Twist.

I accept however that there's very little that can be done because the "growth" of our economy relies somewhat on rising house prices (helped along by London no-end) and no government is ever going to discourage that.

Still, a bit of a shame it's so fked up.

[Fleegle]

Du1point8 said:

To try to reassure staff, LU has just sent out draft copies of what new shift-patterns might look like. It says staff will either work the same number of weekends a year, or fewer. And in the end, anyone who doesn't want to work nights won't have to.

Unions have still said its not fair and demand changes.

Plus they are demanding ticket offices back, this despite the fact I hardly ever saw them open and most people don't use them as they have oyster/contactless, the ticket machines are hardly rocket science to use.

They have also thrown in a '32 hour, 4 day week' into the mix.


Sack the fking lot of them and start again

[barryrs]

MrBarry123 said:

As a Conservative voter and continued supporter...

I've had a [very] slight change of thought around this...

I do actually feel sorry for people such as tube drivers who, whilst earning a relatively good wage, are simply not able to live anywhere near to where they work due to rising house prices in the centre of London. The same applies to teachers, the Police etc. They all provide a valuable service (one we would all be worse off without) however end up in a financially less than ideal situation as a result of facilitating that service.

As such, whilst I don't believe a strike will help to solve anything, I do have a degree of sympathy when they say that working in the centre of London becomes almost unsustainable.

I remember there was a thread on here a while back discussing the viability of living in London on a £60k wage where the general consensus was yes, as long as you weren't wanting to be a baller. Given a large proportion of these workers have families, I would hazard a guess that living in London on £60k and with a family is like something out of Oliver Twist.

I accept however that there's very little that can be done because the "growth" of our economy relies somewhat on rising house prices (helped along by London no-end) and no government is ever going to discourage that.

Still, a bit of a shame it's so fked up.

With 3 bedroom houses for sale in Wembley at circa £275k - £300k and less than 1km to the underground network living around London for drivers shouldn't be that difficult.

[anonymous-user]

Fleegle said:

Du1point8 said:

To try to reassure staff, LU has just sent out draft copies of what new shift-patterns might look like. It says staff will either work the same number of weekends a year, or fewer. And in the end, anyone who doesn't want to work nights won't have to.

Unions have still said its not fair and demand changes.

Plus they are demanding ticket offices back, this despite the fact I hardly ever saw them open and most people don't use them as they have oyster/contactless, the ticket machines are hardly rocket science to use.

They have also thrown in a '32 hour, 4 day week' into the mix.


Sack the fking lot of them and start again

I do love that the unions have thrown in the "work/life balance" argument when station staff have upto 53 days a year holiday entitlement and drivers 43. Id be more than happy to work one or two nights shifts per month to get that holiday deal in itself.

[crankedup]

RichB said:

crankedup said:

... I would rather have a person in charge of the train.

But CU, does that mean you would not use the Docklands Light Railway (DLR)?

Given a choice I would much rather choose a travel system which operated a 'human back-up' at the very least. But we have to do things in life that compromise our preferences occasionally. I, like most people travel by aircraft from time to time, the automation of some aircraft has reached limits of which I currently find uncomfortable. My preference is certainly favouring the 'human touch'.