Discussion
Blib said:
Taken in isolation, these strikes could possibly be justified. However, we Londoners have suffered decades of such action.
We know the score. We're not idiots. The tube union leaders are notoriously political. Funny how these strikes have been ramped up since the Tories got an overall majority.
Smilie -------->
it was 40 strikes in 10 years from the last ones they put forward.We know the score. We're not idiots. The tube union leaders are notoriously political. Funny how these strikes have been ramped up since the Tories got an overall majority.
Smilie -------->
they obviously needed 40 pay rises in those 10 years.
legzr1 said:
It's a shame that some on £23K still aren't happy but I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash.
In pretty much every business in the country the younger and or less skilled workers are on £23k or less, that doesn't make it wrong, its more than the Living Wage. If those people want to earn more the way to do it is for them to take steps to improve their skills and seek alternative employment, not to hold cities to ransom.When I left uni, my first job was answering the phones for the British Gas flotation, I made the effort to add more value to that business, I was promoted and trained, I left that business and went to another that paid more, I took a risk and switched my career to another sector, I built my skills further. 30 years later I earn a very good salary. I got there through effort and risk, not through holding a gun to peoples heads.
Pretty much everyone I know who earns decent money has got there through their own efforts of training and risk. These are the people that abhor the strikers and the Unions that encourage such action.
Not everyone can be a Surgeon/Lawyer/Doctor/Director/Engineer, but everyone can take the initiative to better themselves and off it off their own back, they will be all the more rounded as individuals for it and all the more respected by others.
CorbynFTW said:
If you read the responses to the announcement by Boris on twitter that the strike has been postponed, they're ~90% anti union...
Funny that ain't it.
Funny?Funny that ain't it.
Not really - a strike is designed to inconvenience as many people as possible, that's it's very nature and a lot of people will be annoyed.
90% isn't surprising.
Du1point8 said:
it was 40 strikes in 10 years from the last ones they put forward.
they obviously needed 40 pay rises in those 10 years.
I wasn't aware that every industrial dispute in the timescale you mention resulted in a pay rise - perhaps you could supply your source?they obviously needed 40 pay rises in those 10 years.
blueg33 said:
Stuff
Pleased for you.Thanks for the CV.
Now, fancy answering the question I've asked you a few times now?
FGW, drivers and RMT?
legzr1 said:
Now, fancy answering the question I've asked you a few times now?
FGW, drivers and RMT?
With regard to FGW workers and RMT, pretty obvious if you think about it. I don't really care whether its drivers or workers, the end result is the same and the point I was making is the same. Not hard to work out really.FGW, drivers and RMT?
blueg33 said:
With regard to FGW workers and RMT, pretty obvious if you think about it. I don't really care whether its drivers or workers, the end result is the same and the point I was making is the same. Not hard to work out really.
I've thought about it and found it easy to work out - you're supplying incorrect information based on little-to-no understanding and wrapping it all up as fact.And your train is often late or cancelled because staff can't be bothered to turn up.
Fair summary of your 'point'?
legzr1 said:
blueg33 said:
With regard to FGW workers and RMT, pretty obvious if you think about it. I don't really care whether its drivers or workers, the end result is the same and the point I was making is the same. Not hard to work out really.
I've thought about it and found it easy to work out - you're supplying incorrect information based on little-to-no understanding and wrapping it all up as fact.And your train is often late or cancelled because staff can't be bothered to turn up.
Fair summary of your 'point'?
The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
blueg33 said:
No of course not.
The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
You said (and it was your leading sentence) that RMT were urging drivers to vote for strike action.The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
Accept that, in your haste to add this 'breaking' news to this thread, you didn't really understand what you were posting.
I call bulls
t on your anecdote that a lot of your delays and cancellations are down to staff simply failing to turn up for duty.I see you've moved position to a 'measurable amount' - well, electron microscopes are capable of small measurements.
I'm quite sure that FGW have robust MFA procedures and I'll take that knowledge over any fuzzy musings you put forward
legzr1 said:
crankedup said:
So its fine to use a wider context as in making your point (your Company) but when that point is countered you focus back into minutiae. Hmmmmm.
I'm still waiting for blueg to explain how RMT intend to force ASLEF drivers out on strike over in FGW land 
Slight change of direction but very interesting tele last night concerning the railway's of India. Six years to fully train up a passenger train driver, well just pull a lever here and push a button there. Interestingly and tellingly the program presenter, who had a go at driving on a simulator expressed his genuine surprise at the level of concentration required of the job. It is this level of concentration, 100%, for long time spans that rewards the train drivers with six times the average salary of other workers. Not just London then!
legzr1 said:
blueg33 said:
No of course not.
The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
You said (and it was your leading sentence) that RMT were urging drivers to vote for strike action.The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
Accept that, in your haste to add this 'breaking' news to this thread, you didn't really understand what you were posting.
I call bulls
t on your anecdote that a lot of your delays and cancellations are down to staff simply failing to turn up for duty.I see you've moved position to a 'measurable amount' - well, electron microscopes are capable of small measurements.
I'm quite sure that FGW have robust MFA procedures and I'll take that knowledge over any fuzzy musings you put forward
t if you like it doesn't stop you being wrongFind out for yourself, come to Evesham Station any morning between 5 and 7 am and ask the people on the platform. Be there at 5.20 tomorrow and I will personally introduce you to a score of them. Of course you won't do this, because you will have to get your head out of the sand and that's scary
The day that railway workers realise that the railways are there for the passengers not just to serve the workers can't come soon enough.
crankedup said:
Indeed, still why let common-sense get in the way of political ideology and whatever else drives some to such language as scum et al whilst referring to working people.
It's a shame and IME normally only something spouted anonymously on the Internet.crankedup said:
Slight change of direction but very interesting tele last night concerning the railway's of India. Six years to fully train up a passenger train driver, well just pull a lever here and push a button there. Interestingly and tellingly the program presenter, who had a go at driving on a simulator expressed his genuine surprise at the level of concentration required of the job. It is this level of concentration, 100%, for long time spans that rewards the train drivers with six times the average salary of other workers. Not just London then!
It's mad over there (missing from programs I've seen - never actually visited).As for driver training, it's still very much based on the old BR model (as is much of Indias railway in general) of dead mans shoes - some time ago there were second men and passed men (qualified drivers passed out on rules and traction) well into their 50's still waiting for a drivers vacancy - some where know to retire before ever getting a vacancy!
Interesting stuff, getting away from the thread topic slightly, back to India and their railways. It was said that should a driver pass a red signal light that constitutes instant dismissal, guess that accounts for the intense concentration level required! Also the passengers are so ram packed into the carriages that the presenter was in the middle of the carriage and such was the crush his feet were not on the floor at all. Upside to this was the fact that he wouldn't be able to fall over. Have to decide which rail system makes the 'standing room only' claim honestly relevant. Must be Japan!
blueg33 said:
No of course not.
The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
A little bit late to the party as usual (been busy helping to keep the railway running...), but do you know that every such example of delay is caused by a member of staff simply not turning up, or was it merely announced as a more generic "waiting for a staff member" or "member of traincrew unavailable"...? The latter two cover all sorts of possibilities, such as a driver delayed on a previous working, no-one booked to work the turn because of a staff shortage, genuine sickness, stuck in traffic on the way to work...all sorts of possibilities. It's very very rare for someone simply not to bother turning up, and even then it's probably a misunderstanding rather than laziness.The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
blueg33 said:
The day that railway workers realise that the railways are there for the passengers not just to serve the workers can't come soon enough.
Agree although the railway is NOT there to serve the workers at all - its ONLY there for the passengers (called customers or revenue-stream in all other businesses). Someone should send chummies on a sales course to show them where the money comes from in a business and how!Late Turn said:
blueg33 said:
No of course not.
The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
A little bit late to the party as usual (been busy helping to keep the railway running...), but do you know that every such example of delay is caused by a member of staff simply not turning up, or was it merely announced as a more generic "waiting for a staff member" or "member of traincrew unavailable"...? The latter two cover all sorts of possibilities, such as a driver delayed on a previous working, no-one booked to work the turn because of a staff shortage, genuine sickness, stuck in traffic on the way to work...all sorts of possibilities. It's very very rare for someone simply not to bother turning up, and even then it's probably a misunderstanding rather than laziness.The information was a direct cut and paste from the RMT website, if relates to people who work on the railways for FGW, whether they are drivers, guards or fitters has no bearing on the impact of the action.
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
Slaav said:
As someone who almost certainly knows more than almost all of us about the detail, is the RMT behaving honourably in this? As in when the bigger picture is taken and not just for the benefit of their members?
The RMT exist for one purpose only - to benefit their members!!The RMT IS the members.
And the members aren't happy that safety critical staff are being taken off trains.
legzr1 said:
Slaav said:
As someone who almost certainly knows more than almost all of us about the detail, is the RMT behaving honourably in this? As in when the bigger picture is taken and not just for the benefit of their members?
The RMT exist for one purpose only - to benefit their members!!The RMT IS the members.
And the members aren't happy that safety critical staff are being taken off trains.
legzr1 said:
The RMT exist for one purpose only - to benefit their members!!
The RMT IS the members.
And the members aren't happy that safety critical staff are being taken off trains.
This may be fundamentally where the problem lies..... Surely the purer aim is to 'protect the members' rather than 'screw the bastids for as much as possible - why wouldn't we?'The RMT IS the members.
And the members aren't happy that safety critical staff are being taken off trains.
Sad position to come from in my view!
blueg33 said:
The train is frequently late because start have not reported in for work, yes, that's a fact and I have several hundred pounds worth of compensation vouchers to prove it. I did not state that its the most common reason for delay, that's usually signalling or trespass, but it is a measureable amount.
Or maybe someone hasn't turned up to work, because they don't exist. Or as most would call it 'under staffed'Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff