was i unduly aggressive
Discussion
0000 said:
JonV8V said:
Your maths is somewhat flawed
The length of a queue is the number of cars in it, not the number of meters long.
I'm afraid you can measure the length of a queue in metres, especially when your junction's blocked because someone thinks you can't.The length of a queue is the number of cars in it, not the number of meters long.
ShaunTheSheep said:
JonV8V said:
That's actually quite funny ... Mistaken nonsense based on a logical error ...
You've misread (or misunderstood) the point in the previous postExplain Queing theory, how being in two lines makes the queue shorter when only one car can get through the gap and the other spurious challenges made by others.
There are a few roadworks on the route home from work recently so I've had more chance than usual to observe what happens.
Merge in turn is great in theory, as is "there's two lanes", but in reality when you're coming up at the back of the queue and, rightly or wrongly, everyone is in a single lane queuing, if you simply shoot up the empty lane and expect to "merge in turn" where the cones start people aren't going to think you're anything but an a
hole, and some of them will act accordingly and do silly things to try to stop you.
Merge in turn is great in theory, as is "there's two lanes", but in reality when you're coming up at the back of the queue and, rightly or wrongly, everyone is in a single lane queuing, if you simply shoot up the empty lane and expect to "merge in turn" where the cones start people aren't going to think you're anything but an a
hole, and some of them will act accordingly and do silly things to try to stop you.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: There are a few roadworks on the route home from work recently so I've had more chance than usual to observe what happens.
Merge in turn is great in theory, as is "there's two lanes", but in reality when you're coming up at the back of the queue and, rightly or wrongly, everyone is in a single lane queuing, if you simply shoot up the empty lane and expect to "merge in turn" where the cones start people aren't going to think you're anything but an ahole, and some of them will act accordingly and do silly things to try to stop you.
If everybody used both lanes as intended, there wouldn't be an empty lane and a full lane, thereby removing the problem completely. Merge in turn is great in theory, as is "there's two lanes", but in reality when you're coming up at the back of the queue and, rightly or wrongly, everyone is in a single lane queuing, if you simply shoot up the empty lane and expect to "merge in turn" where the cones start people aren't going to think you're anything but an a
hole, and some of them will act accordingly and do silly things to try to stop you.It is ironic, that the people who choose to join the longer queue are the ones creating the problem, and then they then moan about others, who correctly join the shorter queue.
Mandat said:
If everybody used both lanes as intended, there wouldn't be an empty lane and a full lane, thereby removing the problem completely.
It is ironic, that the people who choose to join the longer queue are the ones creating the problem, and then they then moan about others, who correctly join the shorter queue.
I agree, but when you come up on the back of such a queue and you apply that reasoning and simply scoot up and expect to be let in, saying "I'm merging in turn" doesn't really cut it - no idea if this happens overseas or if it's some weird British thing about queuing.It is ironic, that the people who choose to join the longer queue are the ones creating the problem, and then they then moan about others, who correctly join the shorter queue.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I agree, but when you come up on the back of such a queue and you apply that reasoning and simply scoot up and expect to be let in, saying "I'm merging in turn" doesn't really cut it - no idea if this happens overseas or if it's some weird British thing about queuing.
I've driven all over Europe and in the States, and whilst I've still seen long/short queues over there, the actual merge in turn at the merge point always seems to flow more smoothly than I've experienced in the UK. Perhaps it is down to the British sense of queuing that prevent them from seeing the error of their ways. Mandat said:
I've driven all over Europe and in the States, and whilst I've still seen long/short queues over there, the actual merge in turn at the merge point always seems to flow more smoothly than I've experienced in the UK. Perhaps it is down to the British sense of queuing that prevent them from seeing the error of their ways.
I'd agreeJonV8V said:
0000 said:
JonV8V said:
Your maths is somewhat flawed
The length of a queue is the number of cars in it, not the number of meters long.
I'm afraid you can measure the length of a queue in metres, especially when your junction's blocked because someone thinks you can't.The length of a queue is the number of cars in it, not the number of meters long.
Print this off and stare at it for a while, it might help.
Mandat said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I agree, but when you come up on the back of such a queue and you apply that reasoning and simply scoot up and expect to be let in, saying "I'm merging in turn" doesn't really cut it - no idea if this happens overseas or if it's some weird British thing about queuing.
I've driven all over Europe and in the States, and whilst I've still seen long/short queues over there, the actual merge in turn at the merge point always seems to flow more smoothly than I've experienced in the UK. Perhaps it is down to the British sense of queuing that prevent them from seeing the error of their ways. A more accurate analogy would be if its p
g down with rain on a cold day and there is a very large number of customers with only one teller window open in a bank or post office (much smaller premises than a supermarket). Rather than have half the people queuing out of the door into the street getting soaked you could bring them all inside and form two parallel lines with the person at the head of each one taking it in turn to go forward to be served. It's not rocket science but it seems a lot of Brits wouldn't be intelligent enough to stay warm and dry.Where anything to do with motoring is involved common sense, logic, and a level head go completely out of the window.
Or there's only one window (or check in desk at an airport) open with a long queue, then another one opens. Do the people at the back rush forward to fill the empty queue and get through first, or do they allow the people towards the front of the other queue swap and everyone gets through roughly in the order they arrived?
IcedKiwi said:
Or there's only one window (or check in desk at an airport) open with a long queue, then another one opens. Do the people at the back rush forward to fill the empty queue and get through first, or do they allow the people towards the front of the other queue swap and everyone gets through roughly in the order they arrived?
Nail meet head.The logical answer is "it doesn't matter", on the grounds that for any person in the queue their wait time was X but is now X - some number of minutes.
But that's not interesting, the interesting one is the emotional answer. How do we split a single queue into 2 where each person shares the same proportional saving of time?
1. take the first person from the big queue
2. Send them to service point A
3. Take the next person, service point b
4. Go back to 1.
In other words, the fairest system would be to merge them in turn.
ShaunTheSheep said:
Nail meet head.
The logical answer is "it doesn't matter", on the grounds that for any person in the queue their wait time was X but is now X - some number of minutes.
But that's not interesting, the interesting one is the emotional answer. How do we split a single queue into 2 where each person shares the same proportional saving of time?
1. take the first person from the big queue
2. Send them to service point A
3. Take the next person, service point b
4. Go back to 1.
In other words, the fairest system would be to merge them in turn.
That's not two queues merging, that's one queue diverging!The logical answer is "it doesn't matter", on the grounds that for any person in the queue their wait time was X but is now X - some number of minutes.
But that's not interesting, the interesting one is the emotional answer. How do we split a single queue into 2 where each person shares the same proportional saving of time?
1. take the first person from the big queue
2. Send them to service point A
3. Take the next person, service point b
4. Go back to 1.
In other words, the fairest system would be to merge them in turn.
PoleDriver said:
That's not two queues merging, that's one queue diverging!
Makes no difference. If you'd prefer, pretend the situation is 2 queues and one service desk closes for lunch.Same outcome - logical answer = doesn't matter, everyone's stuffed. Emotional answer = do them in turn. Both lanes were going to get serviced, neither has a higher right or priority to service than the other.
But then I suspect you already worked this all out before posting
Hard to say if you were too aggressive but I'd expect so if the Toyota driver had to back off. This was presumably because you were forcing your car into the gap and not simply because you were indicating and sitting patiently. TBH if you drive down the outside of queues this reaction is only what is to be expected. People see signs to move over and do so and then you and countless others think 'sod that, see you later' and drive down the lane which you have been told to move out of and then expect people to let you in. Would you do that if you were in a queue in a shop?
Frimley111R said:
Hard to say if you were too aggressive but I'd expect so if the Toyota driver had to back off. This was presumably because you were forcing your car into the gap and not simply because you were indicating and sitting patiently. TBH if you drive down the outside of queues this reaction is only what is to be expected. People see signs to move over and do so and then you and countless others think 'sod that, see you later' and drive down the lane which you have been told to move out of and then expect people to let you in. Would you do that if you were in a queue in a shop?
Coincidentally I've sat for 30 minutes today in possibly the angriest traffic jam I've ever experienced.
It was quite surreal, at one point one stupid cow was literally doing a slalom and literally just weaving in and around traffic on any side simply to get further ahead.
Fair enough, she was driving like a spanner (for no obvious reason) but the reactions it provoked did re-enforce that people don't like it when someone "pushes in".
It was quite surreal, at one point one stupid cow was literally doing a slalom and literally just weaving in and around traffic on any side simply to get further ahead.
Fair enough, she was driving like a spanner (for no obvious reason) but the reactions it provoked did re-enforce that people don't like it when someone "pushes in".
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