Resignation,notice period and written offers
Discussion
I work in retail management. It's not glamorous, but it pays the bills (just). I have been offered another job in a similar role which I would like to accept.
Firstly, should I wait until a written offer has arrived before resigning from my current role? I have been assured the job is mine
Secondly, my current employer states a weeks notice for every year of service up to a maximum of 12 weeks. I've been there 14 years so should offer 12 weeks notice. Can I be made to work this? I understand that not doing so is technically a breach of contract .I am about to have two weeks holiday, so was thinking of offering 6 weeks notice. That way my holiday stands, then a further 4 weeks working with them, giving them 6 weeks to cover my role but I will only be working for 4 weeks.
Any advice and opinions would be appreciated .
Firstly, should I wait until a written offer has arrived before resigning from my current role? I have been assured the job is mine
Secondly, my current employer states a weeks notice for every year of service up to a maximum of 12 weeks. I've been there 14 years so should offer 12 weeks notice. Can I be made to work this? I understand that not doing so is technically a breach of contract .I am about to have two weeks holiday, so was thinking of offering 6 weeks notice. That way my holiday stands, then a further 4 weeks working with them, giving them 6 weeks to cover my role but I will only be working for 4 weeks.
Any advice and opinions would be appreciated .
Jettagti said:
Firstly, should I wait until a written offer has arrived before resigning from my current role? I have been assured the job is mine
Yes, you should wait. Nothing in writing means they can pull their offer and deny offering you anything at all!Jettagti said:
Secondly, my current employer states a weeks notice for every year of service up to a maximum of 12 weeks. I've been there 14 years so should offer 12 weeks notice. Can I be made to work this?
Yes, you are contractually bound to work your notice period. Failure to do so can mean them pursuing you for....breach of contract.If they made you redundant, would you accept 6 weeks notice instead of 12?
Jettagti said:
I understand that not doing so is technically a breach of contract .I am about to have two weeks holiday, so was thinking of offering 6 weeks notice. That way my holiday stands, then a further 4 weeks working with them, giving them 6 weeks to cover my role but I will only be working for 4 weeks.
You can offer to do this, but they are under no obligation to accept and usually don't unless they have a reason for wanting you to go (Get you off the payroll/prevent you from having access to company info, etc) I have a colleague in your exact situation. He has a 6 month notice period and thought he could negotiate his way to 3 months or similar.
Nothing doing - he finishes at Christmas this year......
Muzzer79 said:
Yes, you should wait. Nothing in writing means they can pull their offer and deny offering you anything at all!
Having it writing doesn't then mean they can't subsequently pull the offer. Until you have signed a contract there is nothing binding and even then they can get rid of you pretty quick.Not arguing, I would still wait for a letter just to be sure it has the blessing of HR etc and not just the hiring manager mouthing off.
944fan said:
Muzzer79 said:
Yes, you should wait. Nothing in writing means they can pull their offer and deny offering you anything at all!
... Until you have signed a contract there is nothing binding ...BTW, still sensible to wait for a written offer. If they welch on the deal, you would have a potential but modest financial beef with them, but that would be scant consolation, so don't jump until the safety net looks fairly secure.
As for short notice, pacta sunt servanda, dude. Contracts are supposed to be honoured. You cannot be forced to work, but in theory the employer could seek financial redress against you for leaving early. Also, in some circumstances an employer could obtain an injunction to prevent you working for someone else during the notice period, though in that context all would depend on what the old job and new job were and are and on various other blah that I need not bore you with.
A genuine question for Glen: what makes a "Leadership and team development consultant; interview and presentation training" dude want to give out incorrect legal opinions on the internet? I am truly interested in why people do this.
Another way of putting it: in your job, do you not check stuff, or do you just repeat whatever someone has told you? Presumably you picked up your mistaken view of the law of contract from somewhere, but did you never think to check what you had been told?
Another way of putting it: in your job, do you not check stuff, or do you just repeat whatever someone has told you? Presumably you picked up your mistaken view of the law of contract from somewhere, but did you never think to check what you had been told?
Found this:
https://www.gov.uk/job-offers-your-rights
Seems to answer most questions.
I shall hence forth refrain from offering any kind of legal related advice on the Internet as I do not know what I am chatting about and wish to avoid any kind of verbal battering from breadvan.
BV - found this for you:
http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/new...
Chill out dude, you'll be 6 feet under if you keep letting the plebs grinding you down.
https://www.gov.uk/job-offers-your-rights
Seems to answer most questions.
I shall hence forth refrain from offering any kind of legal related advice on the Internet as I do not know what I am chatting about and wish to avoid any kind of verbal battering from breadvan.
BV - found this for you:
http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/new...
Chill out dude, you'll be 6 feet under if you keep letting the plebs grinding you down.
wsurfa said:
Hahaha, haha, ha - oh that wasn't a joke. Oh dear god
Muzzer79 said:
I know several people this has happened to, and I worked for a firm that did it when were suddenly acquired.
In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
Sheepshanks said:
I know several people this has happened to, and I worked for a firm that did it when were suddenly acquired.
In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
Yup - me too.In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
And discussions with employment lawyers recently support Sheepshanks's statement.
Being legally right is often worth bugger all in this arena.
Sheepshanks said:
wsurfa said:
Hahaha, haha, ha - oh that wasn't a joke. Oh dear god
Muzzer79 said:
I know several people this has happened to, and I worked for a firm that did it when were suddenly acquired.
In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
GlenMH said:
The employment contract does not start until the day you walk in to the building for the first time.
An offer, written or verbal, can be pulled at any point until then with no compensation/recourse.
It wasn't An offer, written or verbal, can be pulled at any point until then with no compensation/recourse.
GlenMH said:
Legally you have an agreement when an offer is made but it's not worth pursuing if it's withdrawn, as your compensation will be too minimal to pursue, iMO.
Was it petal?
GlenMH said:
Sheepshanks said:
I know several people this has happened to, and I worked for a firm that did it when were suddenly acquired.
In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
Yup - me too.In practice, even if it was pushed all the way, how much compo do you think someone working in a shop is going to get? The answer given above may not be legally correct, but it might as well be.
And discussions with employment lawyers recently support Sheepshanks's statement.
Being legally right is often worth bugger all in this arena.
t. And people like you and GlenMH cause no end of issues with your bloke in pub legal crap that some unfortunate might think was correct.How much compo, just from looking at contract yesterday about half a million if the company decided that, after advice from an over opinionated moron on a forum, they could just walk away as there was 'no contract'. And yes this was retail related, although perhaps not on a shop floor, but then that wasn't the statement made.
Next you'll go for 'don't worry about that non-compete mate they're not enforceable, you can ignore it, bloke in pub told me'
GlenMH said:
...
And discussions with employment lawyers recently support Sheepshanks's statement.
Being legally right is often worth bugger all in this arena.
Name these employment lawyers, so that we can laugh at them as well as you, Glen!And discussions with employment lawyers recently support Sheepshanks's statement.
Being legally right is often worth bugger all in this arena.
What price being legally wrong, I wonder? You should know, you're the expert at that.
wsurfa said:
How much compo, just from looking at contract yesterday about half a million if the company decided that, after advice from an over opinionated moron on a forum, they could just walk away as there was 'no contract'. And yes this was retail related, although perhaps not on a shop floor, but then that wasn't the statement made.
So the OP could get half-a-million out of this if it goes wrong? Brilliant!wsurfa said:
Next you'll go for 'don't worry about that non-compete mate they're not enforceable, you can ignore it, bloke in pub told me'
Try getting a straight answer on that. After my next door neighbour's new employers legal bill got to £40K they were still none-the-wiser.I will give you a straight answer on that, or any legal question within my field of expertise. The problem with lawyers is that way too many of them are rubbish, and way too many punters instruct the wrong lawyers and spend a lot of money getting nowhere. I am not a great lawyer, but I am not a rubbish one either, and one reason why I post in here is to try to counter not only the endless Tsunamis of bloke in pubbery, but also the effect on the hapless punter of crappy lawyers. It is a vain pursuit, and Sisyphus says he'd rather have his gig than this one, but at least it keeps me out of the betting shops.
Yes, but it is my business to be right most of the time, and I am good at my business. How many doctors do you know who are Papally infallible? How many car mechanics have X ray vision and see the fault inside the engine without opening it up? The good car mechanic gives an opinion and is usually correct, but sometimes gets it wrong.
I deplore lawyers who refuse to give clear opinions when properly instructed to do so. I get paid for expressing a view. That view might be wrong, but I should say what it is. Later, in court, I am not paid to express a view, but to argue a position. That position may be wrong (and I may have told the client that it is wrong), but if I do my job properly I argue the position as well as it can be argued, within the constraints of ethics (Yes, those. Good lawyers have them. Bad lawyers don't). In most cases, whether I win or lose, I think that the right side has won. The cases that I lose but should have won, and win but should have lost tend to rankle a bit, but luckily they are only a minority of the cases. Were it otherwise, I couldn't do the job.
PS: Do you think that law is a binary code, in which there is always a yes/no answer that can be pre determined, whatever the facts? Might it perhaps be that law reflects life, and life is a bit raggedy edged and grey sometimes?
PPS: There are, of course, some yes/no questions. Thus it can be stated with confidence that Glen is a billion and seventy three percent wrong in the view that he expresses above as to the law of contract. Some questions are nuanced, but that one's a no brainer.
I deplore lawyers who refuse to give clear opinions when properly instructed to do so. I get paid for expressing a view. That view might be wrong, but I should say what it is. Later, in court, I am not paid to express a view, but to argue a position. That position may be wrong (and I may have told the client that it is wrong), but if I do my job properly I argue the position as well as it can be argued, within the constraints of ethics (Yes, those. Good lawyers have them. Bad lawyers don't). In most cases, whether I win or lose, I think that the right side has won. The cases that I lose but should have won, and win but should have lost tend to rankle a bit, but luckily they are only a minority of the cases. Were it otherwise, I couldn't do the job.
PS: Do you think that law is a binary code, in which there is always a yes/no answer that can be pre determined, whatever the facts? Might it perhaps be that law reflects life, and life is a bit raggedy edged and grey sometimes?
PPS: There are, of course, some yes/no questions. Thus it can be stated with confidence that Glen is a billion and seventy three percent wrong in the view that he expresses above as to the law of contract. Some questions are nuanced, but that one's a no brainer.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th July 12:51
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