Number plate legalities

Author
Discussion

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
Landshark said:
The metal pressed plates are 'technically' not legal because the plates should be 'made of retroreflective material' and the metal plates are just covered in retroreflective paint/sticker.
The "plate" is made from retro reflective material. I.e the paint is what makes the plate and it's retro reflective and it's painted onto metal to support / host the plate.

The same pedantic interpretation can be applied to regular plates. They're made from transparent plastic as the main body to support the plate which is not a retro reflective material either.

jbsportstech

5,069 posts

178 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
Landshark said:
The metal pressed plates are 'technically' not legal because the plates should be 'made of retroreflective material' and the metal plates are just covered in retroreflective paint/sticker.
Best not to point that out, should make you MOT null and void if you do.

Had a woman trying to sell a car on facebook with german font pressed steel plates but gb. She was selling this 'upgraded' number plates I said its actually illegal and should fail mot. Woman posted the plates regs claiming they complied. I pointed out the section were they didnt and she posted some idiots just wont admit they are wrong!

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
jbsportstech said:
Best not to point that out, should make you MOT null and void if you do.

Had a woman trying to sell a car on facebook with german font pressed steel plates but gb. She was selling this 'upgraded' number plates I said its actually illegal and should fail mot. Woman posted the plates regs claiming they complied. I pointed out the section were they didnt and she posted some idiots just wont admit they are wrong!
Were they German font?

jbsportstech

5,069 posts

178 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
Retroman said:
Were they German font?
Yes

Cliftonite

8,406 posts

137 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
jbsportstech said:
Best not to point that out, should make you MOT null and void if you do.

Had a woman trying to sell a car on facebook with german font pressed steel plates but gb. She was selling this 'upgraded' number plates I said its actually illegal and should fail mot. Woman posted the plates regs claiming they complied. I pointed out the section were they didnt and she posted some idiots just wont admit they are wrong!
The irony!

smile



Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
Lgfst said:
So after a couple of car shows and generally noticing cars out and about, I've noticed that there seems to be quite a few cars with either different locations of front number plates, different sizes and letters in non standard format.

For instance, I saw a few with minute front numberplates (the letters were about 3cm tall), mainly on more high end cars.

Then there is the ones where the front numberplate is relocated. I recently saw one under the n/s headlight, which was a vinyl sticker, wrapped around the side of the bumper. Another at a car show had a sticker on the top of the windscreen confused

Then the usual letters in different format to make a word. Not the usual MK57 ABC format.

I never hear of anyone getting issues from the police or anything, has it become very lackadaisical in relation to numberplates recently?

Is there any actual law on position? I know there is on size and format.

Im not looking at doing it, just curious.
There is a difference between shows held off the public road and 'out and about'.
At the former you can do whatever takes your fancy (hint: that's why they are called show plates) smile
It's only when you forget to remove them and reinstall legal ones prior to exiting that you risk getting tugged.

Speed Badger

2,667 posts

116 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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To me, a registration plate is the thing that spoils a car's lines. It's the legal requirement serial number that I wish to draw the least attention to as possible, not have silly names, fonts or fun and interesting places to put them. I wouldn't peel the barcode/serial number off the back of my TV and slap it across the screen, or put it at a jaunty angle.

Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!

Slidingpillar

761 posts

135 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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LudaMusser said:
The law in this country at least states that the front numberplate must be in front of the front wheels snip
Only just spotted this. Real life suggests this has never been enforced as the majority of Morgan three wheelers from 1909, and quite a few four wheelers, the front wheels are ahead of the numberplate. Certainly true for my three wheeler, a 1930 Super Sport Aero.

But if a jobsworth complains, I'll have to point out that since the EU messed with definitions, it's a motorbike and I'll remove the front number-plate completely then to be legal.

V8forweekends

2,481 posts

123 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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Speed Badger said:
Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!
I doubt it - also, maybe I've just not been to the right places, but I've never noticed this kind of bellendery with number plates in France.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
Speed Badger said:
To me, a registration plate is the thing that spoils a car's lines. It's the legal requirement serial number that I wish to draw the least attention to as possible, not have silly names, fonts or fun and interesting places to put them. I wouldn't peel the barcode/serial number off the back of my TV and slap it across the screen, or put it at a jaunty angle.

Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!
The registration number isn't the vehicles "legal requirement serial number", it's the cars legal requirement registration number that is required for the purposes of identification of the vehicle where required.

If the registration number were the "legal requirement serial number", then you would never be allowed to change the registration number for another one.



The "legal requirement serial number" is the vehicles VIN number which these days tends to be openly displayed on the dashboard. This number cannot be changed or altered in any way legally.

If you're going to whine and bcensoredtch about something, at least get you facts right first! rolleyes

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
V8forweekends said:
Speed Badger said:
Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!
I doubt it - also, maybe I've just not been to the right places, but I've never noticed this kind of bellendery with number plates in France.
It may have something to do with the registration regimen in France being different from that in the UK.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
V8forweekends said:
Speed Badger said:
Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!
I doubt it - also, maybe I've just not been to the right places, but I've never noticed this kind of bellendery with number plates in France.
It may have something to do with the registration regimen in France being different from that in the UK.
Registration plate regimen in the rest of the world including France being different from that in UK.

The concept that you can make up a reg plate in a garden shed out of a few bits of plastic still blows my mind.

In every civilised country, and the rest, the state makes plates from stamped metal which as a result are exceedingly difficult to modify or clone.

We are told that insurance fraud is a major problem in UK. Is there any reason why we should not have state-supplied reg plates similar to those used by the rest of humanity, which does not have a plate cloning problem?

ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Speed Badger said:
To me, a registration plate is the thing that spoils a car's lines. It's the legal requirement serial number that I wish to draw the least attention to as possible, not have silly names, fonts or fun and interesting places to put them. I wouldn't peel the barcode/serial number off the back of my TV and slap it across the screen, or put it at a jaunty angle.

Is there any other product in existence where the serial number gets so much attention?!
The registration number isn't the vehicles "legal requirement serial number", it's the cars legal requirement registration number that is required for the purposes of identification of the vehicle where required.

If the registration number were the "legal requirement serial number", then you would never be allowed to change the registration number for another one.



The "legal requirement serial number" is the vehicles VIN number which these days tends to be openly displayed on the dashboard. This number cannot be changed or altered in any way legally.

If you're going to whine and bcensoredtch about something, at least get you facts right first! rolleyes
I would say a legal requirement serial number is a fairly accurate description of VRNs

no one ever says serial numbers must be non transferable or non reusable, just unique which VRNs are


ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
Registration plate regimen in the rest of the world including France being different from that in UK.

The concept that you can make up a reg plate in a garden shed out of a few bits of plastic still blows my mind.

In every civilised country, and the rest, the state makes plates from stamped metal which as a result are exceedingly difficult to modify or clone.

We are told that insurance fraud is a major problem in UK. Is there any reason why we should not have state-supplied reg plates similar to those used by the rest of humanity, which does not have a plate cloning problem?
That would just be common sense
Next you will be suggesting they start offering ones people want which don't conform to one of 3 or 4 arbitrary sets of rules, maybe even come up with a new arbitrary set of rules for new plates which doesn't automatically label a car with it's age automatically devaluing millions of cars every 6 months

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
ging84 said:
flemke said:
Registration plate regimen in the rest of the world including France being different from that in UK.

The concept that you can make up a reg plate in a garden shed out of a few bits of plastic still blows my mind.

In every civilised country, and the rest, the state makes plates from stamped metal which as a result are exceedingly difficult to modify or clone.

We are told that insurance fraud is a major problem in UK. Is there any reason why we should not have state-supplied reg plates similar to those used by the rest of humanity, which does not have a plate cloning problem?
That would just be common sense
Next you will be suggesting they start offering ones people want which don't conform to one of 3 or 4 arbitrary sets of rules, maybe even come up with a new arbitrary set of rules for new plates which doesn't automatically label a car with it's age automatically devaluing millions of cars every 6 months
If we're going to sort out the UK reg plate mess, may we please remedy the two other things that blight us?

1) Get us a decent font, FFS!

There is NO excuse for this abomination:



Most of its characters are merely bad, but that "5" deserves a plaque of its own in the Lettering Design Hall of Shame.

2) What is it with this white-front-yellow-rear bull5hit? The prescribed yellow is a particularly ugly hue, spoiling the aesthetics of literally every vehicle registered in the United Kingdom.

I have searched long and hard to work out exactly why the geniuses think that we need different colours front and rear. No evidence has come forth.

Someone speculated that the authorities wanted plates that would help one to identify whether one was looking at the front or the rear of a vehicle - but try to figure out when that could possibly matter, and whether, if it did matter, there would not be a multitude of other, less potentially misleading, information that would serve the same purpose.

AFAIK, the UK is the only country with different colour plates front and rear. All the other nations of the world are surviving with their pathetic monotone plate backgrounds. Why can't we do the same? Oh, I forgot, this is the country where grown men wear pink socks.

Sushifiend

5,093 posts

136 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
I have searched long and hard to work out exactly why the geniuses think that we need different colours front and rear. No evidence has come forth.
Not evidence granted, but the reasoning seems fairly clear to me. The yellow light reflected back from a following driver's headlights is less likely to dazzle or damage night vision than white light reflected back. I presume the dazzle factor is the reason I remember a majority of cars in France used to have yellow headlights.

So the question is - why not have yellow plates front and rear? We don't tend to follow cars which are driving in reverse at night (I don't tend to do it during the day either!) and white front plates reflects the maximum amount of light which may be necessary to read a plate when the car's own headlights are on.

Basically, you need as much reflectivity as possible on front plates, while reducing the dazzle from rear plates.

shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
Landshark said:
justanother5tar said:
yes

There are indeed pressed plates that conform to all required specifications.

Correct spacing, font and character size. Manufacturers post code and BSAU laser etched in. Painted with reflective paint.


ETA; http://dubmeister.co.uk/webshop/uk-legal-pressed-m...
The metal pressed plates are 'technically' not legal because the plates should be 'made of retroreflective material' and the metal plates are just covered in retroreflective paint/sticker.
Incorrect, 'normal' number plates aren't made of a retroreflective material either, the substrate is a clear acrylic, they have a retroreflective film stuck to the back. Pressed plates have a retroreflective film stuck to the front. There's nothing 'illegal' regarding pressed plates, as long as the font/size/marks are all in order.

NeilRoss

55 posts

219 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
I received a NIP about 4-5 years ago displaying F3ISTY incorrectly spaced. It was an ANPR camera van. 60 quid fine. No points. Obviously clear enough for the ANPR to pick up, so not quite sure what the issue was Vs some far more questionable plates i have seen... Irony there being the APNRS probably can't even get close to reading the properly dodgy numbers - obviously these drivers will only get it if plod is having a bored moment out on patrol.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
Slidingpillar said:
LudaMusser said:
The law in this country at least states that the front numberplate must be in front of the front wheels snip
Only just spotted this. Real life suggests this has never been enforced as the majority of Morgan three wheelers from 1909, and quite a few four wheelers, the front wheels are ahead of the numberplate. Certainly true for my three wheeler, a 1930 Super Sport Aero.

But if a jobsworth complains, I'll have to point out that since the EU messed with definitions, it's a motorbike and I'll remove the front number-plate completely then to be legal.
And god forbid if you put your number plate on the dash of an old VW splitty or Comma van!

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Friday 31st July 2015
quotequote all
Sushifiend said:
flemke said:
I have searched long and hard to work out exactly why the geniuses think that we need different colours front and rear. No evidence has come forth.
Not evidence granted, but the reasoning seems fairly clear to me. The yellow light reflected back from a following driver's headlights is less likely to dazzle or damage night vision than white light reflected back. I presume the dazzle factor is the reason I remember a majority of cars in France used to have yellow headlights.

So the question is - why not have yellow plates front and rear? We don't tend to follow cars which are driving in reverse at night (I don't tend to do it during the day either!) and white front plates reflects the maximum amount of light which may be necessary to read a plate when the car's own headlights are on.

Basically, you need as much reflectivity as possible on front plates, while reducing the dazzle from rear plates.
Why do you need as much reflectivity as poss on front plates?