BMW GS's

[bass gt3]

Silver993tt said:

On a track for sure but on the road definitely not, especially in real mountain, hilly areas.

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

[Renn Sport]

I hate it when threads decend into name calling. Its st.


I think the main issue for the GS is the image of the bike. Its adoption by middle agers and BMW kit has hurt it.

When I see someone riding a Tenere, KTM or the like I am more impressed. However I cannot deny the BMW is a fun bike. Just not my first choice. The new XR with the S1000R engine and tune appeals a hell of a lot more.

[Silver993tt]

bass gt3 said:

Silver993tt said:

On a track for sure but on the road definitely not, especially in real mountain, hilly areas.

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

I'm actually referring to big adventure bikes in general. That includes the GS, MS and 1290 SA for example. I say this from my experience which is mainly riding in the Alpine regions of Europe. That's what I see, so that's how I formulate my opinion.

[Ceeejay]

Mr2Mike said:

With 50kg more mass, 50bhp less power, the aerodynamics of a barn door and lumbered with some ropey dual sport tyres, I suspect even Marquez might struggle to keep up with a Fireblade ridden by one of the more competent BB riders.

I was quicker on a track on my GS than on my Daytona 675 or my RC8. Same track, same rider. GS gave me, as a pretty inexperienced rider, more confidence to brake later, and get on power earlier.

A GS inspires confidence like no other bike I have ridden. I think that's why they are so popular.

[Fleegle]

I used to have a GS for commuting in 1988. A red one... it was gutless....it got nicked....I didn't lose sleep

[Alex@POD]

bass gt3 said:

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

Would the chassis and riding position make it easier to push on on bumpy roads, with questionable surface? (Honest question, not baiting)

I'm thinking a proper sports bike may be unsettled where a GS (or other) may stay planted and use its limited power better...

[spareparts]

bass gt3 said:

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

Because it makes going as fast as a-public-road-with-other-road-users-and-furniture would allow, easy.
Rider benefits:

• you have big confidence to get on the throttle early and use the torque to drive/accelerate harder and get up to a [limited] speed faster. The prodigious torque allows you to deploy 90ftlbs _constantly_ at easily maintained revs instead of maintaining revs at 10-14k rpm of a sportsbike.
• Better stability when maintaining 4-7k rpm instead of 10-14k rpm.
• The suspension makes you impervious to conditions where ultra sensitive USD suspension would suggest backing off.
• The upright ergos, wide bars, and size/height of the bike give comfort, visibility, and ergos that allow easy comandeering of the bike through/around traffic where a sportsbike means you have less visibility. You just see more and over more miles.
• Tank range of 200+ miles allows you to keep going farther for longer in comfort. Ever overtaken a slow moving HGV to have to re-overtake it after your fuel stop?

If you are on open roads (ie, sweepers in SA or Spain or suchlike), then a sportsbike is definitely faster as long as you are prepared to cruise over the legal speed limit. In England, where you are constantly blighted by 30/40/50/70 zones, then you will go as fast as you can accelerate and navigate ahead within that approximate speed range.

All that being said, I still love taking my Ducati or SP2 out for the kicks. Am I much slower? Not a lot, and many times faster, but will need to stop more often for fuel/rest etc. But the benefits are all reasons why adventure bikes are great for long distance.

Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 29th July 12:10

[srob]

bass gt3 said:

Silver993tt said:

On a track for sure but on the road definitely not, especially in real mountain, hilly areas.

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

To be fair the original post was to do with Marquez on a GS and a good rider from here on a Fireblade.

My money on a twisty mountain road would certainly be on Marquez on the GS. But then I reckon if Marquez was on a mobility scooter I'd still have to bet each way

[hman]

I would have thought a VFR would make a decent alternative to a GS.

Lets face it 99.99999999% of GS's arent taken off road - and they have been designed by BMW to have an amount of off road ability (LOL) so they are , at a guess 70% tarmac 30% fire road focussed

If you are only going to tour on your bike then why not have a bike which is 100% road focussed like a VFR?

[scunnylad]

George111 said:

scunnylad said:

Never really got this blast to the alps asap thing anyway,loads of great roads south of Paris
Nyons to Serres yesterday,35 miles,50-140mph bends bike ride hardly vertical,now that's a road,fk that hairpin,squirt of throttle,hairpin stelvio type st.

Would I have rather done this trip on my fireblade or a GS?,no contest,you soon forget about the discomfort when the speed/bends increase

I speak as a 50 yr old who like many other long term riders has a few knocks/aches etc

Incidentally we passed a few fully loaded GS's on the way down here,a few of them on trailers behind various cars/motorhomes

All imho of course,get out and ride whatever floats your boat

Edited by scunnylad on Wednesday 29th July 07:01

Nyons to Serres ? So you're not really just south of Paris are you . . . you're a spit away from the French Alps, maybe 30 mins from Gap so you're enjoying the roads which are actually at the foot of the Alps

If you're down there then pop across to Barcelonnette and follow the D209 to Enchastrayes for a quick few hours or for something a little more spectacular follow the D900 to Jausiers and then the C4 followed by D64, M2205 and M97 to Isola 2000 and then pop over the border to Italy, that route was one of the best riding days I've ever had.

Have ridden them on a Hayabusa and a V-Strom and plan going back on a GS - the bike doesn't matter, we all choose the bike which fits our fragile physical frame the best, the riding is what's fun.

Cheers for those suggestions

Yep appreciate that road is well south of Paris,just cited that as I had just rode it.
My point was you don't need to blast straight to the alps to find good roads,get of the autoroute and have fun

Anyway I saw that road as climbing out of the Rhone valley

[George111]

scunnylad said:

George111 said:

scunnylad said:

Never really got this blast to the alps asap thing anyway,loads of great roads south of Paris
Nyons to Serres yesterday,35 miles,50-140mph bends bike ride hardly vertical,now that's a road,fk that hairpin,squirt of throttle,hairpin stelvio type st.

Would I have rather done this trip on my fireblade or a GS?,no contest,you soon forget about the discomfort when the speed/bends increase

I speak as a 50 yr old who like many other long term riders has a few knocks/aches etc

Incidentally we passed a few fully loaded GS's on the way down here,a few of them on trailers behind various cars/motorhomes

All imho of course,get out and ride whatever floats your boat

Edited by scunnylad on Wednesday 29th July 07:01

Nyons to Serres ? So you're not really just south of Paris are you . . . you're a spit away from the French Alps, maybe 30 mins from Gap so you're enjoying the roads which are actually at the foot of the Alps

If you're down there then pop across to Barcelonnette and follow the D209 to Enchastrayes for a quick few hours or for something a little more spectacular follow the D900 to Jausiers and then the C4 followed by D64, M2205 and M97 to Isola 2000 and then pop over the border to Italy, that route was one of the best riding days I've ever had.

Have ridden them on a Hayabusa and a V-Strom and plan going back on a GS - the bike doesn't matter, we all choose the bike which fits our fragile physical frame the best, the riding is what's fun.

Cheers for those suggestions

Yep appreciate that road is well south of Paris,just cited that as I had just rode it.
My point was you don't need to blast straight to the alps to find good roads,get of the autoroute and have fun

Anyway I saw that road as climbing out of the Rhone valley

The road to Isola 2000 is a Tour De France route and used for cycle racing so the surface is perfectly smooth and there are good ditches either side of the road to catch falling boulders, rocks and general dirt and vegetation and it winds up and up for miles, sometimes hugging the rock other times through fields but it's never straight or flat

[Mad Jock]

I am sure that the majority of GS's don't go off road either, but for those that do, they are far more capable than most will give them credit for. Of course, tyres make a difference, much the same for a track day bike I would imagine.

Anyway, I thought I'd have a quick trawl through YouTube, and came across a couple of good examples of what they are capable of. The first clip is from South Africa, I'm sure that BassGT3 knows of these guys. I'm not sure what riding from the pillion seat proves, but each to their own!

Some get their kicks from riding flat out on a track, but for others, a day out in the sticks is what does it for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilIZJEMXJf0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIp3mNZL6bo

[Esceptico]

Personally, how fast I ride on the public road is determined by a number of factors. Principally:

- can I stop within the road I see ahead?
- road surface (wet, bumpy, pot-holed, risk of diesel etc)
- visible and potential hazards (if I see someone at a junction waiting to pull out I wouldn't blitz past at a 100+)
- speed limits and risk of getting caught exceeding them (so avoid speeding on motorways, dual carriageways and main roads and if I do speed then within acceptable limits ie points not prison)

The list above is pretty much independent of the bike I'm riding and so I know I would not be quicker nor slower on a GS than my S 1000 R. The same applies to most bikes above a certain power.

A sportsbike can be ridden faster than a GS on the road (look at TT lap times of pretty much stock sportsbikes). However, I would suggest that anyone riding quick enough to get away from someone on a GS (who has the same riding ability) is riding recklessly and is a danger to themselves and others.

[George111]

spareparts said:

bass gt3 said:

Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....

Because it makes going as fast as a-public-road-with-other-road-users-and-furniture would allow, easy.
Rider benefits:

• you have big confidence to get on the throttle early and use the torque to drive/accelerate harder and get up to a [limited] speed faster. The prodigious torque allows you to deploy 90ftlbs _constantly_ at easily maintained revs instead of maintaining revs at 10-14k rpm of a sportsbike.
• Better stability when maintaining 4-7k rpm instead of 10-14k rpm.
• The suspension makes you impervious to conditions where ultra sensitive USD suspension would suggest backing off.
• The upright ergos, wide bars, and size/height of the bike give comfort, visibility, and ergos that allow easy comandeering of the bike through/around traffic where a sportsbike means you have less visibility. You just see more and over more miles.
• Tank range of 200+ miles allows you to keep going farther for longer in comfort. Ever overtaken a slow moving HGV to have to re-overtake it after your fuel stop?

If you are on open roads (ie, sweepers in SA or Spain or suchlike), then a sportsbike is definitely faster as long as you are prepared to cruise over the legal speed limit. In England, where you are constantly blighted by 30/40/50/70 zones, then you will go as fast as you can accelerate and navigate ahead within that approximate speed range.

All that being said, I still love taking my Ducati or SP2 out for the kicks. Am I much slower? Not a lot, and many times faster, but will need to stop more often for fuel/rest etc. But the benefits are all reasons why adventure bikes are great for long distance.

Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 29th July 12:10

I don't agree with that at all. I was fastest on twisty A/B roads on my ZX6R with just 600cc and about 45 lb/ft of torque with the typical arse up head down stance which my body doesn't really like any more. My Hayabusa was faster in a straight line but took a lot more to heave it round bends and it was slower to settle before you used full power - fantastic bike but for fast/twisty A/B roads the ZX6R was probably faster if you had the balls to keep it in the right zone and use the performance like you'd stolen it, 1000cc sports bike would be even faster. I've since had a V-Strom 1000 which has similar power to the ZX6 but more weight and that wouldn't have seen which way a well ridden 600cc sports bike went !

This argument is getting silly because it all comes down to the rider - I remember being at Brands Hatch years ago on a track day and thinking I've just got the hang of Paddock Hill bend, tucked down and winding it on only for somebody who was an ex Honda racer to come past me, on the outside, looking behind him holding on with one hand . . . there's always somebody faster . . . that's the nice thing about bikes, in a car any idiot can go reasonably fast, on a bike it takes a particular sort of idiot

[Andy XRV]

Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.

[Fleegle]

I went greenlaning with a group and passed through Frensham Sands (Surrey) on a ride. We had with us an Austrian fellow, about 6 foot 4 tall and he was out on a GS, which for most of the time he rode quite well for a Newbie to off-roading. However, sand offers a different challenge to other surfaces in which you have to lean back a little to allow the front wheel to skim the sand. As the TEC of the group, Hans or Klaus (forgot his name) was right in front of me when at approx. 30mph he took his eye of the ball and the front end dug into the sand. The bike stopped on a button, launching him clean over the touring screen and landing about 15 feet in front of the bike.


I couldn't believe he didn't have a first aid kit in his ample panniers

[Hooli]

Esceptico said:

Personally, how fast I ride on the public road is determined by a number of factors. Principally:

- can I stop within the road I see ahead?
- road surface (wet, bumpy, pot-holed, risk of diesel etc)
- visible and potential hazards (if I see someone at a junction waiting to pull out I wouldn't blitz past at a 100+)
- speed limits and risk of getting caught exceeding them (so avoid speeding on motorways, dual carriageways and main roads and if I do speed then within acceptable limits ie points not prison)

The list above is pretty much independent of the bike I'm riding and so I know I would not be quicker nor slower on a GS than my S 1000 R. The same applies to most bikes above a certain power.

I'd say the first two aren't independent of the bike tbh. A more softly sprung bike is much better on rough roads than a stiff sports bike. Plus the riding position of a naked often lifts your head that extra few inches which make the difference between seeing over hedges etc or not.

[braddersm3]

For what it's worth,i've just got back from France,Andorra then Spain,1500 miles in 5 days,great trip and with a variety of bikes including the contentious GS!
3 of us,all experienced but obviously not riding Gods like some and on quite different bikes.Street triple R,KTM RC8R AND BMW GS1200.
All i'd say is the GS is quick everywhere and up to a point as quick as you need,however when the conditions are right then both the Street and RC8 can clear off.Although the GS was by no means slow obviously it can't have the same degree of performance/handling but 80% of the time it's not relevant.
We decided GS1200 for the schlep down through Northern France(with the luggage),RC8R for the fast sweepers,and the Street Triple to go banzai in the twisties round Andorra!.
Looking like a BMW XR1000 will fill all roles best!

[bass gt3]

Fleegle said:

I went greenlaning with a group and passed through Frensham Sands (Surrey) on a ride. We had with us an Austrian fellow, about 6 foot 4 tall and he was out on a GS, which for most of the time he rode quite well for a Newbie to off-roading. However, sand offers a different challenge to other surfaces in which you have to lean back a little to allow the front wheel to skim the sand. As the TEC of the group, Hans or Klaus (forgot his name) was right in front of me when at approx. 30mph he took his eye of the ball and the front end dug into the sand. The bike stopped on a button, launching him clean over the touring screen and landing about 15 feet in front of the bike.


I couldn't believe he didn't have a first aid kit in his ample panniers

When I broke my wrist a couple of years ago, the guy in the next bed had exactly the same accident when his sand riding skills abandoned him/ never turned up in Moz. End result was a compound fracture of the Tib and Fib!!
Now for the avoidance of any confusion, I agree that an ADV type bike is a hugely competent machine and has many pluses over more sports orientated machinery. Hence why I took a KTM 1190 into Zim, Malawi and Moz rather than my RSV4.
But, it's this assertion that the GS in particular is in someway superior or faster than other machines on the road that makes me laugh. There isn't a planet in existence where you would call the GS fast. It just isn't, and the Adventure model even less so.
But it's competent, and if ridden by a competent rider who can conserve momentum can cover ground very quickly, especially on the sweeping stuff were acceleration isn't needed off tight corners. But going up a road like the Stelvio, where it needs to accelerate from a low speed, possibly well loaded and with a pillion the GS wouldn't see which way a superbike went or even a more powerful ADV/touring bike if the riders were of the same ability and loaded to an equivalent.
I just fail to understand what's appealing about a bike that's compromised in it's road abilities to cater for a perceived off road ability that never gets used??
It's like wearing wellies every day of the weak.....

Edited by bass gt3 on Wednesday 29th July 16:55

[Esceptico]

Hooli said:

I'd say the first two aren't independent of the bike tbh. A more softly sprung bike is much better on rough roads than a stiff sports bike. Plus the riding position of a naked often lifts your head that extra few inches which make the difference between seeing over hedges etc or not.

I should have added another criterion: a healthy margin for error. That is the limiting factor for me as I would rather undercook a bend every time than overcook it once and crash (at least on the road). A softy sprung bike and higher seating position might affect the maximum speed I could corner but I would hope to be below that anyway.