Cayman Advice - Looking to buy possibly
Discussion
Hello.
I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w
e also.
http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w
e also.http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
Hi, I have had a few TVRs (chimeara and T350T) but the last two cars have been Caymans. I only read the bad bits about the cars after purchase but as with TVR's problems are amplified by forums. During my TVR ownership I was prepared for an engine rebuild, clutch failure, big bill at service time etc. But I do see more Porsche threads now complaining about the cost of the 2 year (£500) service so the expectation from owners is different.
The car you have linked to has 'achieved' 106k miles in its life! You could be unlucky, but there are people on here better than me who can advise on the basics to look for and what preventive measures can be taken.
It does seem a shame when a cars value stops it being used for what it was intended, maybe one day I will want and buy a car that subsequently increases in value. But until then the Cayman is a great all round usable car.
The car you have linked to has 'achieved' 106k miles in its life! You could be unlucky, but there are people on here better than me who can advise on the basics to look for and what preventive measures can be taken.
It does seem a shame when a cars value stops it being used for what it was intended, maybe one day I will want and buy a car that subsequently increases in value. But until then the Cayman is a great all round usable car.
Agreed. Had a few sessions in it around F1 SPA at SPA classics month or so ago, it was great. But rarity of it now and I just cant take the risk of someone else punting me off. Rare I know, but a chance. I also find I don't push it as hard cos of that reason, which is a shame. So just looking for something I can chuck around a bit more freely and properly push it. But I am worried it will break....
T4NGO said:
Agreed. Had a few sessions in it around F1 SPA at SPA classics month or so ago, it was great. But rarity of it now and I just cant take the risk of someone else punting me off. Rare I know, but a chance. I also find I don't push it as hard cos of that reason, which is a shame. So just looking for something I can chuck around a bit more freely and properly push it. But I am worried it will break....
Why is this an issue if you have insurance? The risk is the same.T4NGO said:
Hello.
I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track we also.
http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
Slightly off beam, personally I would take a lot of convincing about the sense of tracking a car that I owned - unless it really was a track day car and I was doing a lot of days on track.I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w
e also.http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
I have a Cayman, but have decided to use Bookatrack R300 Caterhams for track days (absolutely no connection with them). Off season it is very cheap - you can't possibly track your own car comparably cheaply - and an R300 simply is a better track car than a Cayman by some margin.
Regarding the reliability issues - trawl this forum and you will have plenty of pointers.
T4NGO said:
Insurance on a track is usually has a 10% value of car excess. Big difference between a 55k and a 14k car. Plus ease of replacement / parts. I do not want a cat d Sag, I am not worried about a cat d cayman / chimaera
I get that, but the rising value of the sag will offset that wont it? Even if it is used hard. As long as you maintain it properly.It seems a shame to sell a Sag, they are massive fun and you would probably struggle to ever get another!
That's the problem I have looked through here and I am more worried about failures than I was before I read all this.
I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense.
Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners?
I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense.
Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners?
T4NGO said:
That's the problem I have looked through here and I am more worried about failures than I was before I read all this.
I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense.
Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners?
They are certainly 'real issues', its just the level of risk of one of these failures happening that people dont agree on.I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense.
Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners?
I am not sure that anybody really knows apart from Porsche themselves.
mollytherocker said:
I get that, but the rising value of the sag will offset that wont it? Even if it is used hard. As long as you maintain it properly.
It seems a shame to sell a Sag, they are massive fun and you would probably struggle to ever get another!
No panic, the Sag is going no where at all. The Cayman / Chimaera track wh0re is an addon, not a replacement It seems a shame to sell a Sag, they are massive fun and you would probably struggle to ever get another!
mollytherocker said:
They are certainly 'real issues', its just the level of risk of one of these failures happening that people dont agree on.
I am not sure that anybody really knows apart from Porsche themselves.
Yeah. I am trying to gauge that. As non TVR people believe the engine is made of chocolate and will die the second you open a door, but in reality they are great and maintained, very reliable.I am not sure that anybody really knows apart from Porsche themselves.
I am just trying to figure out if the same applies here. People love to pull things apart and scare monger all too easily nowadays
T4NGO said:
Yeah. I am trying to gauge that. As non TVR people believe the engine is made of chocolate and will die the second you open a door, but in reality they are great and maintained, very reliable.
I am just trying to figure out if the same applies here. People love to pull things apart and scare monger all too easily nowadays
The problem is that its a binary issue, it either happens to you during the time you own the car or it doesnt. The longer you keep the car, the higher the risk.I am just trying to figure out if the same applies here. People love to pull things apart and scare monger all too easily nowadays
The typical view tends to depend on whether its happened to you or not!
Is there a way to detect or pre-empt failure though? I did see a place advertising to do the RMS & IMS for about 1k. How on target is this or is it a possible DIY job. Looks like it is possible but requires some special tools in which case buying them and parts is going to be not a lot less. Especially if doing once and the problem is cured?
T4NGO said:
Is there a way to detect or pre-empt failure though? I did see a place advertising to do the RMS & IMS for about 1k. How on target is this or is it a possible DIY job. Looks like it is possible but requires some special tools in which case buying them and parts is going to be not a lot less. Especially if doing once and the problem is cured?
I am no expert, you should talk to Hartech about what can be done to reduce the risks. However, in basic terms;RMS - not an issue. Its just a seal that eventually leaks and can be done when the clutch is replaced.
IMS - if it disintegrates it will trash the engine. You can get an uprated one fitted for approx £1k but it depends on the specific engine, some cant be done without splitting the engine, and then you might aswell do everything.
Bore Scoring - caused by overheating in the area of pistons 5 and 6. You can fit a low temp thermostat an extra radiator and adjust your driving style. Most agree that its worth borescoping the engine of any potential purchase to see how scored they are.
Theres loads of advice on Hartechs website which is well worth reading, but it might scare you!
T4NGO said:
Hello.
I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track we also.
http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
In all honesty you are not really going to get much of a balanced answer to this although lots of posters on here have very strong views and will try to sway you one way or the other. I have spoken to various porsche specialist workshops who laugh when they hear of all the doom mongers on the net and told me they rarely see any failures in proportion to their many customers who have them. I tend to go with their knowledge considering they work on them all day every day, rather than listening to the many keyboard warriors on here and you can easily do that yourself including hartech. The only problem is they cannot give you the answer to the question you are looking for which is will YOUR car go pop. You could have it boroscoped and it might go pop 3 months later, its the luck of the draw. The only thing that does seem well established is that the gen1 cayman engine requires a lot of modifications if you are going to track it hard and regularly, including oiling modifications, a motorsport aos and they can suffer with overheating steering pumps. The Gen 2 car is far better suited to track work but obviously is going to push your budget. I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot.
Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring?
So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc..
As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w
e also.http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c...
My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it.
Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR.
Alan
T4NGO said:
ok, thanks I will speak to a few stealers. But to be honest I didnt think they would need modding to track them? That seems a bit odd as the Sag is ready to go and a lot of fun, none needed.
I am not referring to Porsche dealers, I am referring to Porsche specialist independent workshops, places like nine excellence, parr, hartech, etc. There are many gen 1 owners who 'occasionally' track their cars in totally standard form, but if you are tracking regularly and considering track specific mods like sticky tyres, lowered suspension etc then you have to start to think about engine specific mods, they can suffer oil starvation at high g, also they can blow smoke out the exhaust under high g due to the flimsy stock aos. You can read all about the suitability (or not..) of the gen 1 car for track work and the list of required mods on the planet 9 forum. It doesn't make for great reading, most will say if you are serious about a cayman track car it really makes more sense in the long run just to pay the extra to buy a gen 2 car. PR36 said:
I am not referring to Porsche dealers, I am referring to Porsche specialist independent workshops, places like nine excellence, parr, hartech, etc. There are many gen 1 owners who 'occasionally' track their cars in totally standard form, but if you are tracking regularly and considering track specific mods like sticky tyres, lowered suspension etc then you have to start to think about engine specific mods, they can suffer oil starvation at high g, also they can blow smoke out the exhaust under high g due to the flimsy stock aos. You can read all about the suitability (or not..) of the gen 1 car for track work and the list of required mods on the planet 9 forum. It doesn't make for great reading, most will say if you are serious about a cayman track car it really makes more sense in the long run just to pay the extra to buy a gen 2 car.
I am confused on gen 2? I have seen one for sale on an 09, but seems gen 2 started in 2012? I will research more but what is the main difference gen 1 to gen 2?987.1 is the gen 1 car from 06-08, the gen 2 car 987.2 starts from 09. The latest model is then called the 981. You have to be careful that many dealers advertise later 987 caymans as an 09 model but 'forget' to mention it is still a gen 1 - the gen 2 car has a totally different dfi engine design.
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