Swinley Forest fatality

Swinley Forest fatality

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daddy cool

Original Poster:

3,996 posts

228 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Very sad news...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-336...

From the FB page, it sounds like he was riding alone, and came off on Red 25 ("Kevlar", or "Rollercoaster") - thats the 2nd of the main fast downhill sections, though i always think of that one as the safer/easier one as its much wider and more open, and feels like theres less to hit. Mind you, i dont have the balls to go down without braking.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SwinleyforestMTB/

Thoughts go out to the family, and also the riders who tried their best to save him before the medics got there.

Edited by daddy cool on Monday 27th July 08:15

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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I just caught a few lines about this on the BBC local news last night. No more than what's in your link to be honest, just bare facts, thankfully, and no scaremongering or conjecture about how it happened. I'm not "on facebook" and can't access what's being said on there, so no comment on that from me.

Very sad for the rider and those close to him, and food for thought for those of us who regularly ride/have ridden in the area. Hopefully no-one else involved, but that place does get very busy on summer weekends. Most of my rides up there have been solo, and in quieter times, mid week days. That can be a worry, wondering what might happen, how long it would take for someone to find you if you were injured from a crash.

Last time I rode there was a PH get-together, and I recall seeing at least two separate 'ambulance attendance' incidents on that day. I know that it's wrong to say that something like this was "inevitable", but when you have so many people riding so often in a relatively small area, then the separation between 'incidents' is bound to be shorter, and every incident has the potential to be 'serious'. Swinley also seems to have a reputation for being quite benign, and "rideable by all", even the Red Trail. I'm not suggesting this is right or wrong, just that it does draw in riders of very varied ability.

I'm without a MTB right now, so won't be up there any time soon, but if/when I do visit Swinley again, I'm sure I'll be giving the trails a bit more respect than usual, at least while I get my confidence back up there. A sobering thought, really, to think that a place that brings so much joy to so many riders, has been the site of a fatal accident involving one of those erstwhile happy users. Knowing the trails there, but only reasonably well, I can honestly say that I never expected something quite as serious as this to happen at Swinley.

frown

Justin S

3,637 posts

260 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Sad news for all concerned. I rode there last weekend and certain areas are now very beaten up and need work to put them back together. Not saying this was the case for his incident, but to keep ambulances away, following Yellowjacks comments , they need to keep it 'safer' for people who push their talents to the limits and beyond.
Its amazing how people are focussed also on helping people with CPR etc, as that's the second time this year that someone has fallen in the Lookout this year, I believe. Thanks to them for trying their hardest to keep him alive.

ukbabz

1,538 posts

125 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Always sad news to hear someone has been hurt frown To echo the thoughts above about Swinley, it's a good centre but in a few places it lulls you into a false sense of confidence. There's a few bits where it suddenly gets tricky and the wet doesn't help.

Gren

1,947 posts

251 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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yellowjack said:
Last time I rode there was a PH get-together, and I recall seeing at least two separate 'ambulance attendance' incidents on that day.

frown
Yep and a 3rd ambulance as I was leaving the car park.

Kevlar is pretty fast and has the potential to go wrong badly if you get it wrong but it is pretty wide and open. Makes you think...



Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Justin S said:
They need to keep it 'safer' for people who push their talents to the limits and beyond.
That way lies health and safety obliterating all the fun, which would, in turn, probably result in more deaths or serious injuries as people go off looking elsewhere for fun places to ride.

I rode Swinley yesterday (pissing rain, so hardly anyone there! smile ) and whilst there are indeed a few places that are quite badly cut up, there's a lot less that's likely to cause you real issues than on various natural trails riding out of Peaslake, for example. They also have the very clear warning about the red run being for competent riders on decent bikes and the like. What else would you have them do? Take out the jumps (which can all be rolled anyway) just in case someone decides to ride over them sat in the saddle and face plants over the bars?

Yes, it's tragic that a rider has died, but it's one person in tens of thousands or more every year, all of whom are fitter, healthier and probably destined for a longer life than they would be sat at home in front of the telly instead.

By all means, work on greater education, and make the warning signs bigger if you want, but don't, for Gods sake, let an extreme rarity (which may well have had nothing to do with trail features and/or conditions in the first place, the last guy to die there went down with a heart attack iirc) cause a kneejerk reaction which ruins the trails!

Justin S

3,637 posts

260 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
That way lies health and safety obliterating all the fun, which would, in turn, probably result in more deaths or serious injuries as people go off looking elsewhere for fun places to ride.

I rode Swinley yesterday (pissing rain, so hardly anyone there! smile ) and whilst there are indeed a few places that are quite badly cut up, there's a lot less that's likely to cause you real issues than on various natural trails riding out of Peaslake, for example. They also have the very clear warning about the red run being for competent riders on decent bikes and the like. What else would you have them do? Take out the jumps (which can all be rolled anyway) just in case someone decides to ride over them sat in the saddle and face plants over the bars?

Yes, it's tragic that a rider has died, but it's one person in tens of thousands or more every year, all of whom are fitter, healthier and probably destined for a longer life than they would be sat at home in front of the telly instead.

By all means, work on greater education, and make the warning signs bigger if you want, but don't, for Gods sake, let an extreme rarity (which may well have had nothing to do with trail features and/or conditions in the first place, the last guy to die there went down with a heart attack iirc) cause a kneejerk reaction which ruins the trails!
I agree with you , Kermit, but what one person is competent, is anothers belief they are. From the early days of Coed Y Brenin, which I had ridden before its major sponsorship deals, it was very technical and difficult, but had to be dumbed down to a level to prevent injuries. The sport is a dangerous game to play, but by all accounts, he impacted a tree, which killed him, rather than a talent loss. From someone who used to build a lot of the trails with BOB's in the lookout, we would always look into the safety aspect as well as the technical side of what we did. The game is not to injure people and with areas like the Labyrinth slowly being broken up , surface wise , just needs regular maintaining to make it fun and swoopy. More injuries would then impact further on the area as the HSE may get involved and then we may loose the right to ride.

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Kermit power said:
Yes, it's tragic that a rider has died, but it's one person in tens of thousands or more every year, all of whom are fitter, healthier and probably destined for a longer life than they would be sat at home in front of the telly instead.
If it was 'Kevlar' that was the location, it has nearly 50,000 'attempts' by nearly 10,000 riders on Strava alone. And I'd suggest that a majority of the MTBers riding it are not Strava users, so at least twice those figures would be a conservative estimate.

So I guess that, yes, we need to look at this isolated incident in context, and keep it in perspective. The HSE, though, won't have any choice but to investigate the circumstances of this fatality. It's a feature of modern life that we no longer accept fatalities and serious injuries without at least attempting to discover the cause in order to reduce any contributory risk factors, and it's right that this happens with regard to the current incident. That said, tens of thousands of amateur riders negotiate those trails on a regular basis, overwhelmingly without incident (of any kind). Too much alteration of trails, in a knee-jerk response to one fatality, would likely induce MORE speed and over-confidence in riders, and potentially cause more frequent serious accidents. In many cases, folk see a difficult section, and wisely decide to take it easy for fear of injury. Take away that (apparent) danger, and those same riders push closer to their limit of ability, and when it does go wrong, it does so on a grander scale. Anyways. I feel like I'm getting drawn toward speculation now, and I've said my piece on the subject. I'll step back for now, until more is known about the specific circumstances of this sad event...

frown

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Just to add, GetReading have picked up the story. A bit more text, but not a great deal more in the way of facts for now, but for those interested, here's the link...

http://www.getreading.co.uk/incoming/man-dies-afte...

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Is Red 25 the one that starts by the reservoir? Or the one that got altered after it opened - it was a jump line with a left hander mid way and had a decent sized jump just after the left?

Tragic news. RIP to him. Sounds like he was a family man aswell so thoughts to them at this time.

I've not heard of any such fatalities before so it appears to be a very rare event thankfully.

P-Jay

10,551 posts

190 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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I read about this on Singletrack, very sad news. I've read the Guy was a Iraq Veteran and had done 22 years in the Army.

I've never had the chance to ride Swinley, but I had a look on YT last night, 'Red 25' looks like one of those trails where it's very easy to go very quickly, it's very smooth and wide, bike park style. I nearly came unstuck at FOD recently riding 'Launch Pad' I'd ridden Blue and Red Extension in the morning and my legs were barking, but we decided to push up and have a go at an easy DH track, like Red 25 (judging by YT) it's very wide, very smooth and not so steep that you immediately clock just how fast you're going, I went into a bend thinking I'd try it faster next time, only to realise I was going too quickly really and had to straighten and brake hard to make it - there was a massive tree on the outside of it.

That's not me calling for trees to be uprooted, or trails to be made slower, but we've chosen a dangerous sport as a hobby, it's very rarely fatal thankfully, but we should never forget the risks involved.

daddy cool

Original Poster:

3,996 posts

228 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
joema said:
Is Red 25 the one that starts by the reservoir? Or the one that got altered after it opened - it was a jump line with a left hander mid way and had a decent sized jump just after the left?
No, the one starting at the reservoir is the 1st of the fast downhill sections (14 or 15, i forget). That one is actually the harder one technically, with off camber routes down, and lots of opportunity to mess it up. I always take that one slow.

The one the chap died on is later on - its a lovely descent and one of the few places in Swinley that my wheels leave the ground, simply because by the end you are going a fair pace, and absolutely no effort is required over the bumps (and when i say leave the ground, im talking a few inches - though the cool kids can get big air)

On FB, people are already calling it an "accident black spot" and calling for it to be made safer. I ride Swinley a couple of times a week usually, and think the entire trail is safe enough considering the classification (of either Blue or Red). Lets face it, a flat gravel path is dangerous if there is one tree at the side and you ride into it at 25mph.

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
That's the one I thought. It had already been modified since it opened due to someone else spannering themselves. But there are more difficult bits there and everywhere else. Accidents happen and I dont think thats section inherently dangerous. But lets not speculate. No one will ever know what happened.

Gren

1,947 posts

251 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
joema said:
Is Red 25 the one that starts by the reservoir? Or the one that got altered after it opened - it was a jump line with a left hander mid way and had a decent sized jump just after the left?
Yep. It's the second comes shortly after the Deerstalker/Labyrinth section. Starts off with a nasty short sharp climb and usually has a little group at the top getting their breath back.

It's not a technical section at all but one of the fastest on the loop and like Daddy, it's one of the sections where I get some air (again, inches)

MadDad

3,834 posts

260 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Such sad news, thoughts go out to the poor guys who found him and worked to revive him for over 20 mins until help arrived, and to the riders family.

I read this morning that he had a 'medical episode' that lead to his passing rather than as a result of an accident.

Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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MadDad said:
Such sad news, thoughts go out to the poor guys who found him and worked to revive him for over 20 mins until help arrived, and to the riders family.

I read this morning that he had a 'medical episode' that lead to his passing rather than as a result of an accident.
I think (if you read about it on Singletrack) that that was another incident back in 2013? It was being erroneously linked to yesterday on there.

MadDad

3,834 posts

260 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
MadDad said:
Such sad news, thoughts go out to the poor guys who found him and worked to revive him for over 20 mins until help arrived, and to the riders family.

I read this morning that he had a 'medical episode' that lead to his passing rather than as a result of an accident.
I think (if you read about it on Singletrack) that that was another incident back in 2013? It was being erroneously linked to yesterday on there.
Yup, you are right - wife showed me it on her iPad this morning - wrong story.

I can only imagine how traumatic it was for the guy's who found him. I crashed very badly in Swinley 4 years ago, was out cold for 15 mins and was worked on in the back of the ambalaunce for nearly 2 hours before they moved me to hospital. The mates who were riding with me at the time lost sleep for weeks following the accident.

Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Monday 27th July 2015
quotequote all
MadDad said:
Yup, you are right - wife showed me it on her iPad this morning - wrong story.

I can only imagine how traumatic it was for the guy's who found him. I crashed very badly in Swinley 4 years ago, was out cold for 15 mins and was worked on in the back of the ambalaunce for nearly 2 hours before they moved me to hospital. The mates who were riding with me at the time lost sleep for weeks following the accident.
Ouch!

I had similar when I came off my road bike 25 or so years ago. The complete stranger from a nearby house who looked after me until the ambulance came also looked after my bike until I could come back for it. I went to get it about a week later after I got out of hospital, he burst into tears as soon as he answered the door and just said "I thought you were going to die". Up until then, I really hadn't registered how serious it was at all...

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Yes it's very very sad for all involved and my condolences go to his friends and family.

But, the guy checked out doing something he loved so let's hope the PC brigade don't start banning bikes from places like this.

The nanny state will have us all mountain biking on flat areas with playground tarmac given half a chance.

Herman Toothrot

6,702 posts

197 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Very sad for the rider and family. However Swinley is super safe already, as Yellowjack said 50,000 Strava attempts, its ridden in the hundreds of thousands of time a year region at least, it doesn't need dulling down, its not even remotely the same ball park as Aston Hill, Tidworth Free ride, Pike Park Wales etc. Kevlar if its where I think it is by the reservoir is the best bit of the whole place and is tame, people should just ride within their comfort zone and slow down if worried about the dangers. I took my mates wife round Swinley a few weeks back as she wanted to see what "red" trails were like, she made it all the way round fine, ifs not a difficult or scary trail.

Tragic as this is, its just an accident, likely rider error, I crash a fair bit too often, it's never been mechanical or the trails fault, just my own, you can't prevent all accidents on trails unless you close them, in which case they just get built hidden in inaccessible woodlands.