Vehicle Warranty Claim - Need Help
Discussion
Ok.. So I bought a Golf GTI Edition 30 DSG from the PH classifieds from a trader at the end of June, it came with 3 months extended warranty through warranty wise. On the drive back I noticed the air con wasn't working, had it re gassed and after a couple of days its blew all the gas/fluid out of the condenser. Got the car into a local garage and we found that one of the hoses has had its retaining bolt cut away so the pipe was only pushed into place, the pressure in the system had caused it blow out.
After 2 weeks of ownership the car went into limp mode, the PRNDS lights on the dash started to flash, slowed the car and it wouldn't shift down, when I stopped it clunked through 2nd and into 1st. Turned the car off and back on and managed to limp it the last 1/2 mile down the road to my house.
Called the garage I bought it from, they said they that needed so sort my warranty out - (at point of sale it wasn't made clear it was through warranty wise, the way they described it was as if they warranted it themselves) So after a couple of days I got the warranty paperwork through. Gold Cover warranty wise.
Called warranty wise and explained the issues and they told me to take it to a garage of my choice so I chose Leicester Volkswagen, a friend of mine is a technician there and I wanted a proper main dealer health check on the car.
They found the car to require replacement of the DSG Mechatronic unit £2500. Replacement of A/C condenser £500. Replacement of damaged A/C pipe work that had been cut, they also noted that the other A/C pipe had been bent in such a way that it was pressing hard against the radiator fan which was causing to not operate at all.
Warranty wise have rejected the work for these reasons: (extract taken from the email they sent me and VW)
1) Mechatronic Unit
However we are of the opinion as your repairer has stated that the vehicle is slightly jerking in gear. that the requested parts
have not suffered a sudden and unexpected mechanical or electrical breakdown as defined in your warranty booklet but is
suffering from wear and tear. Unfortunately parts which have not suffered a sudden failure as defined and parts which are
suffering from wear and tear within the first 30 days or 1000 miles are specifically excluded.
2) Air Conditioning
Your repairer has also requested to replace the air conditioning condenser as the bolt which holds the pipe into the condenser,
has been cut. We are therefore of the opinion the condenser has not suffered a sudden unexpected breakdown as defined.
We are also of the opinion that these would have likely been in development prior to plan inception.
I've also spoken to the garage I bought the car from and they are saying that warranty wise should be paying for the vehicle to be repaired. This isn't going to happen as Warranty wise have already stated they wont pay.
I feel like im stuck between a rock and hard place and I have no idea what to do next.
My own feeling is that I shouldn't have to spend a penny to get this car repaired. What I'd like is for the garage to either take the car back and refund me or repair the car to a high standard in a garage of my choosing.
On both occasions I rang the garage straight after the issues occurred and they had no interested in the air con fault it was only at the mention of the gearbox did they begin to sort any sort of warranty out.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
After 2 weeks of ownership the car went into limp mode, the PRNDS lights on the dash started to flash, slowed the car and it wouldn't shift down, when I stopped it clunked through 2nd and into 1st. Turned the car off and back on and managed to limp it the last 1/2 mile down the road to my house.
Called the garage I bought it from, they said they that needed so sort my warranty out - (at point of sale it wasn't made clear it was through warranty wise, the way they described it was as if they warranted it themselves) So after a couple of days I got the warranty paperwork through. Gold Cover warranty wise.
Called warranty wise and explained the issues and they told me to take it to a garage of my choice so I chose Leicester Volkswagen, a friend of mine is a technician there and I wanted a proper main dealer health check on the car.
They found the car to require replacement of the DSG Mechatronic unit £2500. Replacement of A/C condenser £500. Replacement of damaged A/C pipe work that had been cut, they also noted that the other A/C pipe had been bent in such a way that it was pressing hard against the radiator fan which was causing to not operate at all.
Warranty wise have rejected the work for these reasons: (extract taken from the email they sent me and VW)
1) Mechatronic Unit
However we are of the opinion as your repairer has stated that the vehicle is slightly jerking in gear. that the requested parts
have not suffered a sudden and unexpected mechanical or electrical breakdown as defined in your warranty booklet but is
suffering from wear and tear. Unfortunately parts which have not suffered a sudden failure as defined and parts which are
suffering from wear and tear within the first 30 days or 1000 miles are specifically excluded.
2) Air Conditioning
Your repairer has also requested to replace the air conditioning condenser as the bolt which holds the pipe into the condenser,
has been cut. We are therefore of the opinion the condenser has not suffered a sudden unexpected breakdown as defined.
We are also of the opinion that these would have likely been in development prior to plan inception.
I've also spoken to the garage I bought the car from and they are saying that warranty wise should be paying for the vehicle to be repaired. This isn't going to happen as Warranty wise have already stated they wont pay.
I feel like im stuck between a rock and hard place and I have no idea what to do next.
My own feeling is that I shouldn't have to spend a penny to get this car repaired. What I'd like is for the garage to either take the car back and refund me or repair the car to a high standard in a garage of my choosing.
On both occasions I rang the garage straight after the issues occurred and they had no interested in the air con fault it was only at the mention of the gearbox did they begin to sort any sort of warranty out.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
Edited by Jay_87 on Monday 27th July 13:30
Your claim is under SOGA against the dealer. The provision of a warranty does not absolve him of his obligation.
From his attitude so far I'd get it all in writing giving him the option to repair (or give you your money back) by recorded delivery and make it clear that you will have no hesitation taking legal action if necessary.
From his attitude so far I'd get it all in writing giving him the option to repair (or give you your money back) by recorded delivery and make it clear that you will have no hesitation taking legal action if necessary.
Edited by elanfan on Monday 27th July 13:37
Where's Quentin Wilson when you need him?
Not surprised at WW's response - I wonder what the qualifying criteria is for "a sudden and unexpected mechanical or electrical breakdown"? What do they actually expect the Mechatronic box to do when it "suddenly fails", explode into a million pieces? Melt into a ball of molten steel?
Not surprised at WW's response - I wonder what the qualifying criteria is for "a sudden and unexpected mechanical or electrical breakdown"? What do they actually expect the Mechatronic box to do when it "suddenly fails", explode into a million pieces? Melt into a ball of molten steel?
I can actually see WW point of view on this. Its like taking out life insurance when you have been giving 6 weeks to live.
WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
I already have a letter that ive typed up referring to the SOGA which has dates, issues, costs involved etc.
It basically says money back or see you in court... but in a much more legal way.
I just wanted to make 100% sure that im right in thinking that this isnt my issue to pay for and to see if there was any other options I had before going down the SOGA route
It basically says money back or see you in court... but in a much more legal way.
I just wanted to make 100% sure that im right in thinking that this isnt my issue to pay for and to see if there was any other options I had before going down the SOGA route
Jay_87 said:
I already have a letter that ive typed up referring to the SOGA which has dates, issues, costs involved etc.
It basically says money back or see you in court... but in a much more legal way.
I just wanted to make 100% sure that im right in thinking that this isnt my issue to pay for and to see if there was any other options I had before going down the SOGA route
What does "in a much more legal way" mean? Answer: nothing!It basically says money back or see you in court... but in a much more legal way.
I just wanted to make 100% sure that im right in thinking that this isnt my issue to pay for and to see if there was any other options I had before going down the SOGA route
Use plain English. There is no need for bizarre linguistic convolutions, and no need to adopt the writing style of a tallow chandler in the 1830s inviting business from a Dowager Countess. If you want me to look at the letter before you send it, PM me, but keep it short, please!
Torquey said:
I can actually see WW point of view on this. Its like taking out life insurance when you have been giving 6 weeks to live.
WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
I thought 'major issues' are deemed to be be pre-existing if found within six months. Of course, are these faults major?WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
For info, should you need it given you're going down the SOGA route, here's the link to the Institure of Automotive Engineer Assessors. I nearly pursued a dealer under SOGA and had planned on getting an independent report undertaken by one of this lot's accredited members.
http://www.iaea-online.org/about-the-iaea/
http://www.iaea-online.org/about-the-iaea/
Breadvan72 said:
What does "in a much more legal way" mean? Answer: nothing!
Use plain English. There is no need for bizarre linguistic convolutions, and no need to adopt the writing style of a tallow chandler in the 1830s inviting business from a Dowager Countess. If you want me to look at the letter before you send it, PM me, but keep it short, please!
When I say legal way there's nothing confusing or jargon, its simple and to the point, I just meant its a little bit more than "money back or court"Use plain English. There is no need for bizarre linguistic convolutions, and no need to adopt the writing style of a tallow chandler in the 1830s inviting business from a Dowager Countess. If you want me to look at the letter before you send it, PM me, but keep it short, please!
Just states facts, and dates more than anything. Happy for a second opinion on it though.
Hooli said:
I thought 'major issues' are deemed to be be pre-existing if found within six months. Of course, are these faults major?
I would say a combined repair bill that comes to £3996.48 could well be called major faults.Another thing, would I be correct to ask for the costs of the diagnostics to be paid for by the dealer I bought the car from as well, I was under instruction to get the car into a garage of my choosing by warranty wise for the diagnostics.
Notwithstanding all of the above (agreed SOGA would appear to be the right way forward) - I very much doubt the aftermarket warranty would cover the labour rates of a VW (or any other) main dealer either. My own personal poor experience with a warranty firm is that they supplement a pitiful labour rate that barely scratches the surface of a main dealer or half decent independent.
Jay_87 said:
I would say a combined repair bill that comes to £3996.48 could well be called major faults.
Another thing, would I be correct to ask for the costs of the diagnostics to be paid for by the dealer I bought the car from as well, I was under instruction to get the car into a garage of my choosing by warranty wise for the diagnostics.
Your first port of call should have been the trader who sold you the vehicle (under SOGA as others have posted); not doing this has probably terminally stopped any request for the garage to take the car back and return what you paid paid dead in its tracks (not that they would ever be obliged to do this in >99.95% of cases anyway) Another thing, would I be correct to ask for the costs of the diagnostics to be paid for by the dealer I bought the car from as well, I was under instruction to get the car into a garage of my choosing by warranty wise for the diagnostics.
.But if you can post up ballpark figures for how much you paid for the car, its cost when new, its age and its mileage, then we should be able to work out what proportion of the cost of repairs required the trader could reasonably be liable for (and their self-organised repairs would have been significantly less than £4k).
My cynical spidey sense is telling me that the garage stitched you up like a kipper by advising you as they did (and that they knew exactly what they were doing in acting this way)
.Torquey said:
I can actually see WW point of view on this. Its like taking out life insurance when you have been giving 6 weeks to live.
WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
Totally agree with this.WW say the car must have had these symptoms when you bought mean it, meaning the garage sold you a car with some faults. Its going to be a fine line determining if the faults were there pre sale (Garage pays) or post sale (WW Pays). Either way one of them should pick up the bill.
It looks like Elanfan has a better idea.
What the trader has effectively done is to sell a car he probably already knew to have faults and then try to con WW into standing the cost of fixing them.
^^^ This is my thoughts but....
It looks like I might actually be getting somewhere with this, Warranty Wise's basis for rejecting the claim was that the VW report was in a sort of grey area, leaving it open to interpretation. They have since reworded it and resent to in to basically confirm that the mechatronic unit is not a serviceable item and does not suffer from wear and tear and the vehicle suffered an "unexpected and mechanical breakdown"
WW will now review the claim and its looking likely that they'll pay out for it.
Its taken some doing, alot of phone calls and some perseverance but it finally seems im getting somewhere with it now.
It was never my first choice to chase this down the SOGA route but I had to have a back up plan should it come to it, fingers crossed i'l have my Golf back very soon.
I can see the points of both the supplying dealer and WW... neither of them seemed to see my point though. Just hoping this is the first steps to getting it sorted.
It looks like I might actually be getting somewhere with this, Warranty Wise's basis for rejecting the claim was that the VW report was in a sort of grey area, leaving it open to interpretation. They have since reworded it and resent to in to basically confirm that the mechatronic unit is not a serviceable item and does not suffer from wear and tear and the vehicle suffered an "unexpected and mechanical breakdown"
WW will now review the claim and its looking likely that they'll pay out for it.
Its taken some doing, alot of phone calls and some perseverance but it finally seems im getting somewhere with it now.
It was never my first choice to chase this down the SOGA route but I had to have a back up plan should it come to it, fingers crossed i'l have my Golf back very soon.
I can see the points of both the supplying dealer and WW... neither of them seemed to see my point though. Just hoping this is the first steps to getting it sorted.
I've seen comments elsewhere that if something fails in the first 30 days then the warranty company just bills the trader anyway.
What ever happens, I can't imagine WW being too thrilled about this, but perhaps it's small beer in the great scheme of things.
It's great for you, as you'll get the main dodgy area of the car replaced.
Now what's happening about the a/c? The dealer must have known about that.
What ever happens, I can't imagine WW being too thrilled about this, but perhaps it's small beer in the great scheme of things.
It's great for you, as you'll get the main dodgy area of the car replaced.
Now what's happening about the a/c? The dealer must have known about that.
The AC I plan to look into further, it's not something I'm happy with but I had planned to fix it myself. It's something I can easily repair at home/work without buying any new parts.
If I can get something from the dealer then that's a bonus. I'l just be happy if the DSG gets sorted. Waiting to hear what WW say tomorrow.
If I can get something from the dealer then that's a bonus. I'l just be happy if the DSG gets sorted. Waiting to hear what WW say tomorrow.
If I was buying a second hand Volkswagen Golf GTI from a general garage and had a friend who was a technician at a Volkswagen main dealers I would ask him to come to view the car with me for his expert opinion or better still to have the car taken to the VW dealer for a check up.
I dont think warranty wise will pay for the repairs as they were clearly present when you bought the car so the dealer is liable.
I dont think warranty wise will pay for the repairs as they were clearly present when you bought the car so the dealer is liable.
It is my opinion that all these aftermarket warranties are basically not worth the paper they are written on. Sure they will pay odd claims that they can use, but in the main they avoid paying.
Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
aw51 121565 said:
Jay_87 said:
I would say a combined repair bill that comes to £3996.48 could well be called major faults.
Another thing, would I be correct to ask for the costs of the diagnostics to be paid for by the dealer I bought the car from as well, I was under instruction to get the car into a garage of my choosing by warranty wise for the diagnostics.
Your first port of call should have been the trader who sold you the vehicle (under SOGA as others have posted); not doing this has probably terminally stopped any request for the garage to take the car back and return what you paid paid dead in its tracks (not that they would ever be obliged to do this in >99.95% of cases anyway) Another thing, would I be correct to ask for the costs of the diagnostics to be paid for by the dealer I bought the car from as well, I was under instruction to get the car into a garage of my choosing by warranty wise for the diagnostics.
.But if you can post up ballpark figures for how much you paid for the car, its cost when new, its age and its mileage, then we should be able to work out what proportion of the cost of repairs required the trader could reasonably be liable for (and their self-organised repairs would have been significantly less than £4k).
My cynical spidey sense is telling me that the garage stitched you up like a kipper by advising you as they did (and that they knew exactly what they were doing in acting this way)
.spaximus said:
It is my opinion that all these aftermarket warranties are basically not worth the paper they are written on. Sure they will pay odd claims that they can use, but in the main they avoid paying.
Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
Why would it be anything other than wear & tear at 80K? Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
spaximus said:
It is my opinion that all these aftermarket warranties are basically not worth the paper they are written on. Sure they will pay odd claims that they can use, but in the main they avoid paying.
Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
You have multiple vans all suffering from timing chain failure?Our fleet of vans at 80000 miles are suffering from timing chain failure, you would think they are covered, but no wear and tear is the one we are arguing with at present.
I can understand why they want to fight, £4.5k repair on a van worth £5k is bonkers but that is why we took them out.
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