Pulleys, Winch and Cable system for Scalextric Track
Discussion
I want to build a Scalectrc track in the garage on a large board, approx 14ft (4.2m) x 8ft (2.5m) that I would like to be able to raise to the ceiling. I'm a bit lost as to what size cable, pulleys and what type of winch to use to raise it up. Anyone done anything similar who can help?
I'm sure that will depend on many factors, how heavy your board is and how strong you are to start with. In terms of how hard it is to lift I think each pulley halves the amount of effort required to lift the load.
A board that size is at a guess going to have to be made of multiple sheets and so will require re-enforcing or an additional frame so I'm guessing quite heavy.
These Amazon Bike Pulley say they're up to 20kg if that helps.
A board that size is at a guess going to have to be made of multiple sheets and so will require re-enforcing or an additional frame so I'm guessing quite heavy.
These Amazon Bike Pulley say they're up to 20kg if that helps.
I was thinking of making the board out of some old doors (laminated with cardboard in the middle) so it will be solid, I think the whole thing with track will be a couple of hundred kgs). Something like this looks up to the job... http://www.amazon.co.uk/325924-630KG-Trailer-Webbi... .... but I guess it's how it's mounted to the wall that really matters as that will be taking the weight, unless I hitch it up when raised somehow.
Nick Grant said:
I was thinking of making the board out of some old doors (laminated with cardboard in the middle) so it will be solid, I think the whole thing with track will be a couple of hundred kgs). Something like this looks up to the job... http://www.amazon.co.uk/325924-630KG-Trailer-Webbi... .... but I guess it's how it's mounted to the wall that really matters as that will be taking the weight, unless I hitch it up when raised somehow.
Err... where is the motor on that? This is PH. Something driven from a starter motor? miniman said:
Err... where is the motor on that? This is PH. Something driven from a starter motor?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/500kg-Maxtra-Electric-Lift...
Better?
The weight you're talking about really isn't going to cause you any major problems.
I'm planning to do something similar to lift bikes up into the ceiling and have been working things out over the last few weeks. I'm putting up a mezzanine storage area at each end of my worshop, with a central section being lowerable. At one end to allow me to lift heavyish stuff up there and the other to get my bikes out of the way. The mezzanine means I can use bolts to take the weight when the sections are raised, rather than relying on the winch etc. That's a safety thing as much as anything.
I picked up a whinch on Gumtree for £10, it's good for a few hundred kg and similar sell on eBay for £80-100. The whinches are designed to be bolted to a box-section bit of steel, which you can mount anywhere that's convenient. so long as you get a couple of decent fixings in, it'll take the load. You should aim to get the fixings perpendicular to the cable direction, so they take the load in shear, rather than trying to pull the fixings from the wall. This will give you more margin for error.
What's the roof structure above? You don't want to fix pulleys to a ridge board, but a pair of purlins would be ideal.
I presume you realise that the more pulleys you use the more a motor will lift as it's gearing down the lift, but it'll move slower? More pulleys mean you can get better support on the panel for a smoother lift, without running multiple cables. Multiple cables will mean you'll need to have the winch far enough away from the pulleys that you can raise the panel without the joining of the cables to arrive at the winch spool.
I would plan the winch location and cable runs so that you can use the same winch to lift other stuff too if you can, I'm planning to use the one winch to lift either of the end panels, but also the top off a workbench, which will have a pool table hidden underneath and also a general lifting hook for moving heavy stuff when I'm on my own.
On the weight side of things, you could make a lightweight frame and not board it over, but add a thin ply where the track will run, depends if you plan to change the layout at all.
Sounds like an ace plan.
I'm planning to do something similar to lift bikes up into the ceiling and have been working things out over the last few weeks. I'm putting up a mezzanine storage area at each end of my worshop, with a central section being lowerable. At one end to allow me to lift heavyish stuff up there and the other to get my bikes out of the way. The mezzanine means I can use bolts to take the weight when the sections are raised, rather than relying on the winch etc. That's a safety thing as much as anything.
I picked up a whinch on Gumtree for £10, it's good for a few hundred kg and similar sell on eBay for £80-100. The whinches are designed to be bolted to a box-section bit of steel, which you can mount anywhere that's convenient. so long as you get a couple of decent fixings in, it'll take the load. You should aim to get the fixings perpendicular to the cable direction, so they take the load in shear, rather than trying to pull the fixings from the wall. This will give you more margin for error.
What's the roof structure above? You don't want to fix pulleys to a ridge board, but a pair of purlins would be ideal.
I presume you realise that the more pulleys you use the more a motor will lift as it's gearing down the lift, but it'll move slower? More pulleys mean you can get better support on the panel for a smoother lift, without running multiple cables. Multiple cables will mean you'll need to have the winch far enough away from the pulleys that you can raise the panel without the joining of the cables to arrive at the winch spool.
I would plan the winch location and cable runs so that you can use the same winch to lift other stuff too if you can, I'm planning to use the one winch to lift either of the end panels, but also the top off a workbench, which will have a pool table hidden underneath and also a general lifting hook for moving heavy stuff when I'm on my own.
On the weight side of things, you could make a lightweight frame and not board it over, but add a thin ply where the track will run, depends if you plan to change the layout at all.
Sounds like an ace plan.
RichB said:
My concern would be that at 14' x 8' you will need to reinforce the layout underneath the boards with some strong cross members to stop it sagging as you lift it. Assuming you will only be able to put ropes at the corners...
I had planned on six mouting points so it has support in the middle too. paulrockliffe said:
The weight you're talking about really isn't going to cause you any major problems.
I'm planning to do something similar to lift bikes up into the ceiling and have been working things out over the last few weeks. I'm putting up a mezzanine storage area at each end of my worshop, with a central section being lowerable. At one end to allow me to lift heavyish stuff up there and the other to get my bikes out of the way. The mezzanine means I can use bolts to take the weight when the sections are raised, rather than relying on the winch etc. That's a safety thing as much as anything.
I picked up a whinch on Gumtree for £10, it's good for a few hundred kg and similar sell on eBay for £80-100. The whinches are designed to be bolted to a box-section bit of steel, which you can mount anywhere that's convenient. so long as you get a couple of decent fixings in, it'll take the load. You should aim to get the fixings perpendicular to the cable direction, so they take the load in shear, rather than trying to pull the fixings from the wall. This will give you more margin for error.
What's the roof structure above? You don't want to fix pulleys to a ridge board, but a pair of purlins would be ideal.
I presume you realise that the more pulleys you use the more a motor will lift as it's gearing down the lift, but it'll move slower? More pulleys mean you can get better support on the panel for a smoother lift, without running multiple cables. Multiple cables will mean you'll need to have the winch far enough away from the pulleys that you can raise the panel without the joining of the cables to arrive at the winch spool.
I would plan the winch location and cable runs so that you can use the same winch to lift other stuff too if you can, I'm planning to use the one winch to lift either of the end panels, but also the top off a workbench, which will have a pool table hidden underneath and also a general lifting hook for moving heavy stuff when I'm on my own.
On the weight side of things, you could make a lightweight frame and not board it over, but add a thin ply where the track will run, depends if you plan to change the layout at all.
Sounds like an ace plan.
Thanks for the info, seems to support my thinking, on most counts. I'll get some pictures of the roof structure, its a double garage with flat roof, central RSJ with joists running above the RSJ out to the walls. I'm planning to do something similar to lift bikes up into the ceiling and have been working things out over the last few weeks. I'm putting up a mezzanine storage area at each end of my worshop, with a central section being lowerable. At one end to allow me to lift heavyish stuff up there and the other to get my bikes out of the way. The mezzanine means I can use bolts to take the weight when the sections are raised, rather than relying on the winch etc. That's a safety thing as much as anything.
I picked up a whinch on Gumtree for £10, it's good for a few hundred kg and similar sell on eBay for £80-100. The whinches are designed to be bolted to a box-section bit of steel, which you can mount anywhere that's convenient. so long as you get a couple of decent fixings in, it'll take the load. You should aim to get the fixings perpendicular to the cable direction, so they take the load in shear, rather than trying to pull the fixings from the wall. This will give you more margin for error.
What's the roof structure above? You don't want to fix pulleys to a ridge board, but a pair of purlins would be ideal.
I presume you realise that the more pulleys you use the more a motor will lift as it's gearing down the lift, but it'll move slower? More pulleys mean you can get better support on the panel for a smoother lift, without running multiple cables. Multiple cables will mean you'll need to have the winch far enough away from the pulleys that you can raise the panel without the joining of the cables to arrive at the winch spool.
I would plan the winch location and cable runs so that you can use the same winch to lift other stuff too if you can, I'm planning to use the one winch to lift either of the end panels, but also the top off a workbench, which will have a pool table hidden underneath and also a general lifting hook for moving heavy stuff when I'm on my own.
On the weight side of things, you could make a lightweight frame and not board it over, but add a thin ply where the track will run, depends if you plan to change the layout at all.
Sounds like an ace plan.
Edited by Nick Grant on Wednesday 29th July 14:46
We did this with a train set, must have been atleast 2m long. Some 18mm ply, and then braced lengthways underneath. Four pulleys, two at each end attached to the roof beams. Worked fine, was a little awkward to move up and down but I don't remember it being a big deal. Think we dropped it onto some stools as a base!
Worked a treat. I would just over spec the pulleys a bit, job done. come to think of it I'm not sure we did proper pulleys, just had some pulley wheels and pulled it up and down!
Worked a treat. I would just over spec the pulleys a bit, job done. come to think of it I'm not sure we did proper pulleys, just had some pulley wheels and pulled it up and down!
I had exactly this with a big trainset. A slab of blockboard about 8'x5', possibly just like Pheo's, with steel eyes at each corner. To these attached steel hooks attached to strong nylon cords, which vertically upwards to four ceiling-mounted pulleys, which ran to a wall-mounted axle on which were two drums. Follow the axle to the right and there was a cogwheel on the end, from which a chain desecended to a small gearbox from which sprouted a handle. It was worm drive so no chance of the board falling, but it did take a few turns to raise and lower!
Thanks all, not been out to get a photo, but I have this one of the area it will go. Will sit on the white fold up tables when down.
Tiki Bar by Nick Grant, on Flickr
I think I have a plan now
Tiki Bar by Nick Grant, on FlickrI think I have a plan now
I meant to add that if you look on eBay you can buy lengths of nylon coated steel wire quite cheaply and it tells you what weight it's rated for. I've used it to suspend my lights in the workshop using aluminium crimps to make the end connections, also on eBay.
I would get two lengths of angle iron to run the length of your board, one each side, then just use four lifting points, six is going to get more complicated than it needs to be. You want the wire to do the lifting and the board to keep itself straight, you'll struggle to make sure the wires are all equally tensioned if you rely on them to keep the board from sagging. It'll probably be fine, but the other way is the better solution.
I would get two lengths of angle iron to run the length of your board, one each side, then just use four lifting points, six is going to get more complicated than it needs to be. You want the wire to do the lifting and the board to keep itself straight, you'll struggle to make sure the wires are all equally tensioned if you rely on them to keep the board from sagging. It'll probably be fine, but the other way is the better solution.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff