Topping up clutch fluid?
Discussion
Is it usual for these cars to naturally lose a bit over time? Having tackled the slave cylinder last Christmas, putting in the upgraded RP slave, I'd rather hoped I'd seen the back of clutch issues but it felt a bit odd today so thought I'd check the fluid, sure enough there wasn't much in the master cylinder, so I've topped it up and bled it for now. Did seem to be quite a lot of black crud in what came out, presumably from a seal somewhere so it doesn't look good, unless that as the new slave seals bedded in a bit (hopeful thinking there)?
This slave cylinder seals issue seems to have been a thorn in the side for many owners going back years, i cannot believe there is no solution to this problem, other cars don't seem to suffer from repeated slave seal failure so why do Cerbs? 
I too have had this problem, first time was shortly after i bought the car, after a rolling road session when the car got a bit hot 105c on the dash guage, i replaced the complete clutch assembly and slave unit (and seals) so i had a benchmark of all new parts, they were the standard AP racing parts from Racetech, 6000 miles later i once again have the 'DREADED DRIP' from the bellhousing.
I have a little switch under the dashboard to manually turn on the rad fans, once the car was back on the road i religiously used this whenever the temp got to 90c and the seals were fine for 4000 miles. After this point i got a bit over confident and started to let the ecu control the fans as i had checked the calibration with a laptop and the dash guage was spot on. Somewhere between the 4000 and 6000 miles the slave seals must have started to break down again and now i have gone complete circle.
I'm convinced this problem is temperature related and not faulty parts, i bought the temp chip from Joolz but havn't fitted it yet, i'm wondering weather this will indirectly reduce the temperatures around the slave cylinder area, as a knock on effect of a cooler engine.
Does anyone that has the cooling chip still suffer from leaking slave seals??????
I too have had this problem, first time was shortly after i bought the car, after a rolling road session when the car got a bit hot 105c on the dash guage, i replaced the complete clutch assembly and slave unit (and seals) so i had a benchmark of all new parts, they were the standard AP racing parts from Racetech, 6000 miles later i once again have the 'DREADED DRIP' from the bellhousing.
I have a little switch under the dashboard to manually turn on the rad fans, once the car was back on the road i religiously used this whenever the temp got to 90c and the seals were fine for 4000 miles. After this point i got a bit over confident and started to let the ecu control the fans as i had checked the calibration with a laptop and the dash guage was spot on. Somewhere between the 4000 and 6000 miles the slave seals must have started to break down again and now i have gone complete circle.
I'm convinced this problem is temperature related and not faulty parts, i bought the temp chip from Joolz but havn't fitted it yet, i'm wondering weather this will indirectly reduce the temperatures around the slave cylinder area, as a knock on effect of a cooler engine.
Does anyone that has the cooling chip still suffer from leaking slave seals??????
Thunderroad said:
This slave cylinder seals issue seems to have been a thorn in the side for many owners going back years, i cannot believe there is no solution to this problem, other cars don't seem to suffer from repeated slave seal failure so why do Cerbs?
I too have had this problem, first time was shortly after i bought the car, after a rolling road session when the car got a bit hot 105c on the dash guage, i replaced the complete clutch assembly and slave unit (and seals) so i had a benchmark of all new parts, they were the standard AP racing parts from Racetech, 6000 miles later i once again have the 'DREADED DRIP' from the bellhousing.
I have a little switch under the dashboard to manually turn on the rad fans, once the car was back on the road i religiously used this whenever the temp got to 90c and the seals were fine for 4000 miles. After this point i got a bit over confident and started to let the ecu control the fans as i had checked the calibration with a laptop and the dash guage was spot on. Somewhere between the 4000 and 6000 miles the slave seals must have started to break down again and now i have gone complete circle.
I'm convinced this problem is temperature related and not faulty parts, i bought the temp chip from Joolz but havn't fitted it yet, i'm wondering weather this will indirectly reduce the temperatures around the slave cylinder area, as a knock on effect of a cooler engine.
Does anyone that has the cooling chip still suffer from leaking slave seals??????
Have you taken your cats out? This helps with temperatures around the clutch area. I have Joolz' chip fitted but don't see this helping the life of the clutch seals.I too have had this problem, first time was shortly after i bought the car, after a rolling road session when the car got a bit hot 105c on the dash guage, i replaced the complete clutch assembly and slave unit (and seals) so i had a benchmark of all new parts, they were the standard AP racing parts from Racetech, 6000 miles later i once again have the 'DREADED DRIP' from the bellhousing.
I have a little switch under the dashboard to manually turn on the rad fans, once the car was back on the road i religiously used this whenever the temp got to 90c and the seals were fine for 4000 miles. After this point i got a bit over confident and started to let the ecu control the fans as i had checked the calibration with a laptop and the dash guage was spot on. Somewhere between the 4000 and 6000 miles the slave seals must have started to break down again and now i have gone complete circle.
I'm convinced this problem is temperature related and not faulty parts, i bought the temp chip from Joolz but havn't fitted it yet, i'm wondering weather this will indirectly reduce the temperatures around the slave cylinder area, as a knock on effect of a cooler engine.
Does anyone that has the cooling chip still suffer from leaking slave seals??????
Let's face it, the idea of an internal concentric slave is pretty crap at best. If we are all being honest, what is the real benefit of the application? None as far as I can see. Having had slave seals go 4 times in seperate occasions over the course of 600 miles, I came to conclusion that an external slave and fork operated clutch would be a much more robust application. I just need to find someone to design and engineer one for me.
I've got some original TVR cats in mine. It's leaking from the joint between the bellowing and the gearbox, which suggests its the rear seal that's failed, rather than the seals internal to the slave. TVR's idea of using the bellhousing to deliver fluid to the slave is fairly ridiculous in my opinion. It just adds an extra layer of complexity that isn't required. When I've got it all disassembled, which will be some time from now, I'll measure it all up and see if I can get a Tilton 6000 series to fit.
CerbWill said:
... When I've got it all disassembled, which will be some time from now, I'll measure it all up and see if I can get a Tilton 6000 series to fit.
I've got this one in. The position and allowed piston travel is of great importance. You will need to modify the bellhousing and make holes for the hydraulics.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
crypto said:
I've got this one in. The position and allowed piston travel is of great importance. You will need to modify the bellhousing and make holes for the hydraulics.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Have you got any more info on this please. I have a raceproved slave and it seals have gone for the second time, getting a bit fed up with it now. What bearing type and version did you get and was it a straight forward fit?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Cheers paul
plug said:
Have you got any more info on this please. I have a raceproved slave and it seals have gone for the second time, getting a bit fed up with it now. What bearing type and version did you get and was it a straight forward fit?
Cheers paul
I had the original AP, then the Raceproved version and now after 30000 miles the Tilton. I hope this will last longer than the clutch Cheers paul
You need to machine the bellhousing to allow space for the fingers of the Tilton release bearing. The wall thickness of the bellhousing gets very thin and therefore the bearing is supported by the gearbox via a support tube.
Unfortunately I have no pictures of it and once the bellhousing is modified you can not go back to AP / Raceproved.
Peter
I've had cooling chip and decat for 8+ years and it doesn't help. The only thing I've found that prolongs its life is regular fluid changes (eg every 6 months). By that method I had one last about 4 years and a lot of traffic jams. I would like to fit a reservoir extension (demon tweeks do them) that comes up through the black dome to make fluid changes and checks much easier. Ideally an angled one to bring the reservoir a bit more vertical.
What I can't understand is how brake caliper seals can survive a much harsher environment (what is the typical temp of a brake caliper on a track day?) using the same fluid and they don't break down every five minutes. Admittedly the amount of travel is much lower but otherwise it's a similar scenario. Just imagine if you had brake failure every year or two! The cars would obviously be recalled and fixed.
Clutch slave is #1 problem with the cerb
What I can't understand is how brake caliper seals can survive a much harsher environment (what is the typical temp of a brake caliper on a track day?) using the same fluid and they don't break down every five minutes. Admittedly the amount of travel is much lower but otherwise it's a similar scenario. Just imagine if you had brake failure every year or two! The cars would obviously be recalled and fixed.
Clutch slave is #1 problem with the cerb
Crypto, did you need to change the master cylinder for a larger bore when you put the Tilton clutch in? Looking at their website their slave cylinders all have the same hydraulic area and same maximum throw. If I've done the maths right it seems that a 7/8" master cylinder is needed provide the required volume of fluid for maximum slave travel.
My slave failure was definitely caused by excessive heat (35 degree ambient temp on a track day). I opted to take out the cats when I had the new RP slave fitted. What I am also tempted to do though is knock up a little heat shield and fit it between the manifold and where the clutch fluid pipe enters the bell housing. Not sure if anyone has tried this but I suspect it could help enormously.
CerbWill said:
Crypto, did you need to change the master cylinder for a larger bore when you put the Tilton clutch in? Looking at their website their slave cylinders all have the same hydraulic area and same maximum throw. If I've done the maths right it seems that a 7/8" master cylinder is needed provide the required volume of fluid for maximum slave travel.
No, the master cylinder wasn't changed.Peter
Well its all off the car now. Looks pretty terminal for the slave after 8 months and 4000 miles, done with Dot 4 fluid and cats in for reference, although as the cats are positioned further back down the transmission tunnel I'd have thought the airflow underneath the car when its moving would have kept a lot of the cat heat away from the bellhousing.
Anyway, having had a quick measure up there's not enough space in the bellhousing to fit an aftermarket slave without modifying the housing. My plan is to remove the centre of the housing that the standard slave bolts to, and fit one of these.
http://tiltonracing.com/product/6000-series-hydrau...
As part of all this I'll have to get some new clutch hoses made up, so does anyone know what thread TVR used for the connector in the offside wheelarch?
Anyway, having had a quick measure up there's not enough space in the bellhousing to fit an aftermarket slave without modifying the housing. My plan is to remove the centre of the housing that the standard slave bolts to, and fit one of these.
http://tiltonracing.com/product/6000-series-hydrau...
As part of all this I'll have to get some new clutch hoses made up, so does anyone know what thread TVR used for the connector in the offside wheelarch?
Edited by CerbWill on Wednesday 22 September 08:29
This thread makes me so nervous.
I fitted an RP slave two years ago, perhaps 10k miles. I have the gearbox off now so it would be easy to refurb the slave. What are my options? Buy and fit new seals, or send the unit back for new seals?
I destroyed one set of seals on my original slave when trying to fit them, so although I should be capable of replacing them myself, I'm not so sure.
Having just had the slave hose fail (melt) on the E40 a few weeks ago, I really don't want to be driving the car again with no clutch, that is no fun at all.
I fitted an RP slave two years ago, perhaps 10k miles. I have the gearbox off now so it would be easy to refurb the slave. What are my options? Buy and fit new seals, or send the unit back for new seals?
I destroyed one set of seals on my original slave when trying to fit them, so although I should be capable of replacing them myself, I'm not so sure.
Having just had the slave hose fail (melt) on the E40 a few weeks ago, I really don't want to be driving the car again with no clutch, that is no fun at all.
ukkid, my RP slave doesn't feel like its supposed to come to pieces by hand so, at least it didn't pretty much fall to pieces like my original TVR one, so I assume its probably best to send it back for refurb.
Irritatingly the input bearing retainer on my gearbox is broken.
Could someone with an intact one please measure the OD of the bearing retainer shaft so I know which variant of the slave cylinder I need to buy? Obviously my one needs replacing, so if anyone knows the correct part number I need that'd be great. I'm going to try googling the numbers that are on my bearing retainer and see what I can find. TVR Parts want £100 for it which seems a joke as they're available for $70 USD inc shipping, just need to know I'm ordering the right one!
Irritatingly the input bearing retainer on my gearbox is broken.
Could someone with an intact one please measure the OD of the bearing retainer shaft so I know which variant of the slave cylinder I need to buy? Obviously my one needs replacing, so if anyone knows the correct part number I need that'd be great. I'm going to try googling the numbers that are on my bearing retainer and see what I can find. TVR Parts want £100 for it which seems a joke as they're available for $70 USD inc shipping, just need to know I'm ordering the right one!
Edited by CerbWill on Wednesday 22 September 08:30
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff