RE: ARES Performance: Bahar's next move

[SidewaysSi]

ChristAlmighty said:

SidewaysSi said:

Entirely agree. The cars are starting to win the top trumps game which seems to be important to some. Prices are also going higher which may not be a bad thing, however I do wonder if a £100k plus Esprit is really a good idea. A halo car is all well and good but it would need to spank the competition in enough areas to be credible. And at that level, I fear image is ever important.

Agree with most of what you say - Lotus having a halo car doesn't mean they can't sell Elise's? Every model gets lifted in image, and therefore sales.

The new Esprit doesn't have to spank the competition. It has to be fast and agile - handling is a given, but it doesn't really need to top-trump *everything*. It needs to look awesome with a turbo v8 at a reasonable price point. Looks, image, sound, for many well heeled buyers, is *everything*.

As an Aston Vantage v12 owner, I don't care that my car isn't the last word in dynamics. I'm always getting the top-trump card played by Porsche 911 Turbo drivers... I simply don't care. My Aston is in a different league. It's *cool*.

Lotus need cool again.

When I said spank, I meant it has to be better than the competition at something such buyers want. Most of whom don't necessarily want the finest handling car at this price point. Like you said, they want cool. Why is an Aston deemed to be 'cool'? The Bond connection, the looks, the noisy exhaust etc. Very little to do with the ultimate in steering feel and damping. That's what people want (unfortunately). Ultimately it boils down to image.

Can Lotus really compete with this given their current position? I am not sure. Maybe in the future but expecting a new Esprit to do that overnight is probably asking too much.

A turbo V8 is not really a good thing either - not sure where they will get one and it will have other problems.

I think they are doing just fine right now qith their current strategy of maximising what is already a very good range without throwing too much cash at an area of the market that is (very) high risk.

[redroadster]

Works in London as there is such a glut of super cars rich people will clamour to pour away some money into bringing them up and it's a better name than Khan !!

[WokkaWokka]

Captain Muppet said:

WokkaWokka said:

Fair play to the bloke looks like he's having a good career and making money out of the rich.

If you don't like his business or customer base then keep it to yourself.

You want Positivefeedbackonly Heads. This site relies on forum disputes to drive up traffic for advertising revenue.

What he's doing now seems very much like making money out of people who don't know how to spend it, and I can't fault his selection of rich idiots as customers.

Theres no proper way to spend your personal money, unfortunately. If someone wants a diamanté gear knob in their Lamborghini then let that muppet do that.

It's more like constantcomplaining heads. I don't like audis, I don't like finance etc. it's fking boring I think you'll agree.

[Ozzie Osmond]

^^^ The irony is strong, Skywalker.

[DonkeyApple]

SidewaysSi said:

ChristAlmighty said:

SidewaysSi said:

Entirely agree. The cars are starting to win the top trumps game which seems to be important to some. Prices are also going higher which may not be a bad thing, however I do wonder if a £100k plus Esprit is really a good idea. A halo car is all well and good but it would need to spank the competition in enough areas to be credible. And at that level, I fear image is ever important.

Agree with most of what you say - Lotus having a halo car doesn't mean they can't sell Elise's? Every model gets lifted in image, and therefore sales.

The new Esprit doesn't have to spank the competition. It has to be fast and agile - handling is a given, but it doesn't really need to top-trump *everything*. It needs to look awesome with a turbo v8 at a reasonable price point. Looks, image, sound, for many well heeled buyers, is *everything*.

As an Aston Vantage v12 owner, I don't care that my car isn't the last word in dynamics. I'm always getting the top-trump card played by Porsche 911 Turbo drivers... I simply don't care. My Aston is in a different league. It's *cool*.

Lotus need cool again.

When I said spank, I meant it has to be better than the competition at something such buyers want. Most of whom don't necessarily want the finest handling car at this price point. Like you said, they want cool. Why is an Aston deemed to be 'cool'? The Bond connection, the looks, the noisy exhaust etc. Very little to do with the ultimate in steering feel and damping. That's what people want (unfortunately). Ultimately it boils down to image.

Can Lotus really compete with this given their current position? I am not sure. Maybe in the future but expecting a new Esprit to do that overnight is probably asking too much.

A turbo V8 is not really a good thing either - not sure where they will get one and it will have other problems.

I think they are doing just fine right now qith their current strategy of maximising what is already a very good range without throwing too much cash at an area of the market that is (very) high risk.

I agree with both of you. Personally I think that under the Evora skin that car already exists and that the downsizing of engines is playing into Lotus' hands somewhat. Porsche's are going to 4 cylinders and Ferrari to 6 in their line ups for example.

[RoverP6B]

Perhaps the market is moving Lotus's way, but it's still a bloody crying shame they didn't get on and launch the new Esprit, which was reportedly almost ready to go.

[Ozzie Osmond]

DonkeyApple said:

Personally I think that under the Evora skin that car already exists and that the downsizing of engines is playing into Lotus' hands somewhat. Porsche's are going to 4 cylinders and Ferrari to 6 in their line ups for example.

IMO you are right. What's crazy is that Lotus have been so astoundingly slow to recognise that Evora goes well enough but doesn't look good enough for the price they want to charge. There's more to car ownership than performance statistics. As Honda found out with their excellent but frumpy NSX.

When Bahar did his "5 new cars in 5 years" presentation the newly launched Evora wasn't even allowed in the room! He had identified the problem but didn't get within a million miles of a viable solution.

[chelme]

ChristAlmighty said:

People mock this guy. But the only time I've noticed, raised an eyebrow, even so much as taken an interest in the walking corpse that is Lotus, is when HE had a vision.

Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.

Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.


Make of that what you will.

Edited by ChristAlmighty on Saturday 1st August 01:06

Couldn't agree with you more.

People forget the improvements made to the track, the Evora GTE (now selling/sold in small numbers for a lot more than the fugly 400) and the Exige V6S was conceived under him too no? Apart from the Evora GTE, the Exige V6 is the only other modern Lotus I noticed and thought worth considering. Like you, I was really very much hoping for the Esprit to be brought back too.

Not confident about the direction Lotus intend to take, I mean, what were they thinking with the 400?? Its dog st to look at and everything else is on par, or below par a 911. It just doesn't have the engineering integrity of its rival.

[JMF894]

Lot of people giving Bahar grief here.

Why? I've heard of certain questionable dealings whilst at Lotus but nothing public or confirmed. I see no reason to dislike the guy personally.

Vulgar or not, if people are stupid/tasteless enough and the market is out there then good luck to the bloke.

[anonymous-user]

Oh dear. He wasn't any good at making the whole car, so he has resorted to producing the easier stick on bits. Isn't this business model hugely overdone now anyway? Kahn, Overfinch, Gemballa, Mansory etc. They already do what Bahar is proposing here. Does anyone care?

[otolith]

What he was massively successful at was merchandising Ferrari branded tat.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Danii Bahar's whole career has been based on trying to disprove the old saying, "You can't polish a turd".

Bahar should be recognised in the next honours list as, "Turd-Polisher Extraordinaire".

[daytona111r]

How wrong was this man for Lotus ???? Becoming even more apparent now

[SteveCal]

Bahar's 'atelier' was indeed home for SAAB Piccadilly through the 80s.

Back then my dad worked nearby, and ordered and picked up his SAAB 9000i company car from here. I remember speccing it up with the wheels and rear spoiler from the Turbo, as his budget didn't stretch to the Turbo itself. It was the first reasonably quick car I drove with L plates :-)


Interesting history here: www.saabtala.com/saab-history-2/ along with a pic from the late 70s and lots of real PH-grade SAAB enthusiasm.