Add surround sound to my stereo set up?

[Revs_Addiction]

So I currently have a stereo set up for music that I'm very happy with.

I want to add surround sound for films, (have already bought the speakers), but don't want to compromise on sound quality for my music.

Limiting factors are:

1. No more speakers! So running a separate AV Receiver with dedicated AV front speakers is not an option.
2. Budget. I don't want to spend mega bucks on a receiver, to get one that sounds great playing music and could replace my current music amp.

Can I use my current amp to power my current speakers for front sound effects, and a dedicated AV amp to power the centre and rear speakers and do all the processing?

I'm sure this ins't ideal, with both amps running, and the issue of balancing the volumes of each amp, (do you have to turn both up at the same time, or does the av amp 'take control' of the stereo volume? However I listen to music more than watching films, and am more critical about the sound quality for music than I will be for film soundtracks.

Any thoughts or suggestions for another option I've missed?

Cheers!

[sprouting]

Can't comment on sound quality, but seems like just the thing for you.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_tr...

[kingston12]

You have got three options that I can think of.

The first is to buy an AV Receiver that has got front pre-outs so that your stereo amp can keep running your front two speakers for movies as well as music. I think that you set your stereo amp to half way up on the volume dial when you want to use it that way and then the AV Receiver controls the volume from then on.

The second is to buy a speaker switch that will allow both the stereo amp and an AV Receiver to use the same pair of speakers. You just have to switch manually between them. The advantage of doing it this way is that you will have the same amps in the AVR powering all three front speakers and/or it will allow you to buy a cheaper AVR without preouts. Something like this:

http://www.beresford.me/S/tc-7220.htm

The third option is to buy an add-on surround sound processor that just powers the centre and rear speakers. I am not sure how readily available these are now because I think most people in your position would use one of the first two options.

I have tried different combinations before, but in the end I bought a reasonably high end AVR and use that for everything. It is a Marantz one with and RRP of £1,500 and I like it for music at least as much as £500 stereo amps I have tried. It is not for everyone, though, and I am sure I will be adding a stereo amp again before long!

[kingston12]

sprouting said:

Can't comment on sound quality, but seems like just the thing for you.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_tr...

I used to have that E580 years ago. It was a great unit at the time, but things move on quite quickly in terms of processing. The E-580 supports Dolby Pro-Logic, but since then we have had Pro-Logic II, Dolby Digital and now Dolby TrueHD, and similar advancements on the DTS side of the fence.

The amp sections are probably just as good or better as current units, but the new codecs make a huge difference.

[Revs_Addiction]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I'll try the pre-out route 1st, and if I'm not happy with the balance, use the speaker switch thing so the AV amp is powering the front effects when watching films.

For the pre-outs, is it simply a case of interconnects between the AV amp and an appropriate input on the stereo amp?

I've just had a quick browse at Richer Sounds, and there seems to be lots of cheap options with pre-outs:

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/y...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/s...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/p...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/m...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/d...

Any experience of any of the above?

Going to pull the trigger on one at the w-end I think!

[tog]

I was once told of a 'cheat's' surround sound possible with a stereo amp. You need two sets of outputs on your amp, and you then connect the rear speakers in series to the spare speaker outs. Connect positive amp > positive speaker on both L and R, then connect negative speaker posts to each other. This way you only get the difference between the front channels in the rear. I haven't tried it, but the extra impedance presumably makes it quieter too.

Obviously this is a long way from proper Pro Logic what have you, but might be interesting to try one day. Personally I only use stereo, can't be bothered with speakers all round the room.

[paulmnz]

I had the exact same situation - I have a fairly large/high end stereo setup and I wanted to add a surround setup using my existing 'fronts'

I ended up buying a Marantaz NR1605 - it's small, so isn't an eye-sore. Has 50w outputs for 7.1 and pre-outs for front left/right plus a sub (I dont use a sub).

it has a calibration mic, so it sets the volume, time-aligns and EQs your speakers to match.

I using 4 KEF 2001 for centre and 3 rears. sounds great for films/TV and has a direct out / bypass for stereo applications.

it also has all the latest network streaming guff... it's basically the same as their larger A/V amps feature-wise, just with smaller per-channel amps. since I'm using my fronts to do all the sub frequencies, 50wpc is more than enough for the satellite-type speakers

[kingston12]

That's right, just run a stereo pair between the pre-outs on the AVR and the input on your stereo amp.

I am sure the instructions will guide you through the balancing process. All of the AVRs I have used recently have Audessey (or equivalent) which uses a microphone to set all of the levels correctly. If this is built into the model you buy, it should just adjust the level of the fronts to match the rest of the speakers. The important thing then is to always have your stereo amp volume at the same level as when you set it up when you watch films.

I don't think that you will go far wrong with any of those that you have linked. I always use Denon and Marantz (the same company these days) as I like their sound. When I last looked into these, Denon/Marantz were at the more easy going end of the range and the Pioneer/Sony were generally much brighter.

What stereo amp are you using? It might be best to choose on AVR with a similar sound signature.

[Revs_Addiction]

My stereo amp is an Arcam Diva A85. Speakers are Tannoy DC6T for music, and I've bought some Tannoy DC4 for surround duties, and a DC4LCR for the centre.

[JimbobVFR]

Revs_Addiction said:

My stereo amp is an Arcam Diva A85. Speakers are Tannoy DC6T for music, and I've bought some Tannoy DC4 for surround duties, and a DC4LCR for the centre.

Doesn't the A85 have a HT bypass anyway, that will make it much easier to integrate with an AV amp, no faffing with volume levels.

[stevoknevo]

You'll not go wrong with any of them - I remember the Sony being well thought of when it came out last year at £500.

[Revs_Addiction]

JimbobVFR said:

Revs_Addiction said:

My stereo amp is an Arcam Diva A85. Speakers are Tannoy DC6T for music, and I've bought some Tannoy DC4 for surround duties, and a DC4LCR for the centre.

Doesn't the A85 have a HT bypass anyway, that will make it much easier to integrate with an AV amp, no faffing with volume levels.

I have absolutely no clue I'm afraid! It's certainly more, 'computery', for want of a better word than a traditional power amp. Lots of processor settings and the like that I've never fiddled about with.

[anotherjohnv]

buy one of these they were over £2500 when new and are a real bargain now, use it for 2 channel pre-amp and surround processing

[OldSkoolRS]

In a similar vein I picked up a used Arcam AV8 processor that would have cost about £2,500 new and I paid £65 for it and it sounds fantastic with stereo music (and a matching P7 power amp I bought used, but that wasn't as cheap...).

[lostmotel]

Revs_Addiction said:

My stereo amp is an Arcam Diva A85. Speakers are Tannoy DC6T for music, and I've bought some Tannoy DC4 for surround duties, and a DC4LCR for the centre.

You have virtually the same setup as me!

Just to add to previous comments on the A85, to integrate with it, you need the 2.2 firmware on the A85 (check by holding down the phono, tuner and DVD buttons together) so that you can use processor mode. You'll need to connect the pre-outs of the receiver you get to the tape inputs of the A85. You can then set the gain from 0 to -72 dB for processor mode so it matches the rest of your system. The A90 manual here has details on how to configure it.

I'm still on the lookout for a 7.1 board for mine so I can team it up with a P85/3, but both are as rare as hens' teeth.

[Revs_Addiction]

Well I've just picked up a used Denon AVR 2807 for silly money, hooked up my CD player to it, and it's actually VERY good with music. Certainly good enough for me to box up the Arcam in the short term to avoid a definite divorce!

The Denon is bloody HUGE and along with the recently acquired centre and surround speakers has given our living room the feel of an AV demo room!

Once I get a hifi cabinet I'll come back to this thread and get the Arcam out of retirement, and also get a sub to finally kill off my marriage!