Buying ex race car, opening a can of worms?
Discussion
I'm looking at buying a 2006 ex academy racer, thats been tracked and raced for a few years since finishing the academy.
Would I be walking into a world of problems buying a pretty heavily raced car for mostly road and track day use?
It's still got its MSA seal but its had forged pistons, but other than that its pretty standard.
It has nearly 10,000 miles on it, is this high for a Caterham?
Anything in particular I should be looking at in addition to normal stuff? Or am I best off spending a bit more and getting something that hasn't been raced?
Would I be walking into a world of problems buying a pretty heavily raced car for mostly road and track day use?
It's still got its MSA seal but its had forged pistons, but other than that its pretty standard.
It has nearly 10,000 miles on it, is this high for a Caterham?
Anything in particular I should be looking at in addition to normal stuff? Or am I best off spending a bit more and getting something that hasn't been raced?
Many will have an opinion on this. No doubt ex racers are cheap but I was always told that 1 race mile is equivalent to 10 road miles.
I almost bought an ex racer but in the end spent a few grand more on a road car as it would have costed more to buy the racer and upgrade the bits I wanted.
I almost bought an ex racer but in the end spent a few grand more on a road car as it would have costed more to buy the racer and upgrade the bits I wanted.
SidewaysSi said:
I was always told that 1 race mile is equivalent to 10 road miles.
That old chestnut has been bandied about for years and basically its b
ks. Many road cars will have been neglected and had the bare minimum of maintenance. On the other hand race cars tend to be looked after extremely well by people who know what they are doing and who aren't afraid to spend what is necessary to keep the car in top mechanical form. Especially on a lightweight car like a caterham a race car can make a very solid buy.
I tend to find road cars are cosmetically good and mechanically poor, and the reverse for race cars.
In both cases however, always buy on current condition, if the chassis is straight and everything checks out I wouldn't let it stop you.
10k miles isn't much for any car, I wouldn't let the mileage concern you.
GreigM said:
SidewaysSi said:
I was always told that 1 race mile is equivalent to 10 road miles.
That old chestnut has been bandied about for years and basically its bks. Many road cars will have been neglected and had the bare minimum of maintenance. On the other hand race cars tend to be looked after extremely well by people who know what they are doing and who aren't afraid to spend what is necessary to keep the car in top mechanical form. Especially on a lightweight car like a caterham a race car can make a very solid buy.
I tend to find road cars are cosmetically good and mechanically poor, and the reverse for race cars.
In both cases however, always buy on current condition, if the chassis is straight and everything checks out I wouldn't let it stop you.
10k miles isn't much for any car, I wouldn't let the mileage concern you.
Good points, and 10,000 certainly isn't excessive. Less than that would be bad for the car in that time.
The main concern must be accident damage and how well it has been repaired. It's got to be unlikely that has never had a minor shunt. If the chassis has been repaired by Arch then it will be as good as new.
The main concern must be accident damage and how well it has been repaired. It's got to be unlikely that has never had a minor shunt. If the chassis has been repaired by Arch then it will be as good as new.
I think once you've owned a seven, you realise just how simple they are - some tubing with a bit aluminium around them. It really makes no difference whether that tube and aluminium is in a 'normal' or ex race car. If it's bent, then Arch can fix it as good as new, just make sure the price you pay reflects that.
I put my money where my mouth is and bought an ex race car at substantially less than I would have paid for a 'normal' equivalent. Part of the appeal was I knew that having owned one previously, I wasn't going to keep it standard - upgraditis is addictive. So if you're intending swapping/changing bits then a race car makes even more sense.
Reasons not to buy one include the possibility of finding a better spec'd 'normal' version at less than the cost of buying and upgrading a more basic race car - it depends on what you want and what you pay. Secondly, IMHO they are not best suited for the polishers amongst us. They tend to be put together with a more practical rather than aesthetic eye which you will either see as character and patina or messy if you're a little OCD. Do you want to use and drive it or tour and polish it?
I put my money where my mouth is and bought an ex race car at substantially less than I would have paid for a 'normal' equivalent. Part of the appeal was I knew that having owned one previously, I wasn't going to keep it standard - upgraditis is addictive. So if you're intending swapping/changing bits then a race car makes even more sense.
Reasons not to buy one include the possibility of finding a better spec'd 'normal' version at less than the cost of buying and upgrading a more basic race car - it depends on what you want and what you pay. Secondly, IMHO they are not best suited for the polishers amongst us. They tend to be put together with a more practical rather than aesthetic eye which you will either see as character and patina or messy if you're a little OCD. Do you want to use and drive it or tour and polish it?
Speaking from experience, there are poorly looked after race cars too. This car, you say, has subsequently been tracked and raced after its life as an Academy car. If it comes with a sheaf of bills from a reputable race prep company, you're OK. If there's nothing to show, then judge it on its appearance.
Always remember that just as you'd expect to pay less for an ex racecar so you'd also expect to sell it for less and your market will be narrower.
And think about the average racecar. It's driven hard for 20 minute races, plus practice and qualifying. Each of those miles it covers is, aside from in and out laps, at full throttle, metaphorically (and in some cases actually) speaking. With the best will in the world a road car doesn't get driven in such an extreme fashion.
Final point. 7 owners don't generally neglect their cars. They're proud of owning them and will have a thick file of the car's history. Neglected cars stand out like a sore thumb. And they should be assessed on that fact too.
Always remember that just as you'd expect to pay less for an ex racecar so you'd also expect to sell it for less and your market will be narrower.
And think about the average racecar. It's driven hard for 20 minute races, plus practice and qualifying. Each of those miles it covers is, aside from in and out laps, at full throttle, metaphorically (and in some cases actually) speaking. With the best will in the world a road car doesn't get driven in such an extreme fashion.
Final point. 7 owners don't generally neglect their cars. They're proud of owning them and will have a thick file of the car's history. Neglected cars stand out like a sore thumb. And they should be assessed on that fact too.
GreigM said:
SidewaysSi said:
I was always told that 1 race mile is equivalent to 10 road miles.
That old chestnut has been bandied about for years and basically its bks. Jonny
BaT
I'm in agreement with Jonny on this one. Track driving is a big step from road and racing is probably up a step.
But I'd happily consider an ex-racer, but it needs to be bought on condition. I've seen ex-race caterhams that were completely knacked and bodged - shockingly so.
As an example, I had to bodge my single seater to get back racing again recently. I took a corner off. We had to weld the top of the shock back on, don't even think about the suspension mounting point ripped off the chassis
Horrendous, but got me back out. So if you buy an ex-racer that has 10 of those bodges, it's going to be ste.
So buy on condition. As someone else said, they are not complex cars to inspect and check out.
Bert
But I'd happily consider an ex-racer, but it needs to be bought on condition. I've seen ex-race caterhams that were completely knacked and bodged - shockingly so.
As an example, I had to bodge my single seater to get back racing again recently. I took a corner off. We had to weld the top of the shock back on, don't even think about the suspension mounting point ripped off the chassis
Horrendous, but got me back out. So if you buy an ex-racer that has 10 of those bodges, it's going to be ste.So buy on condition. As someone else said, they are not complex cars to inspect and check out.
Bert
BertBert said:
I'm in agreement with Jonny on this one. Track driving is a big step from road and racing is probably up a step.
But I'd happily consider an ex-racer, but it needs to be bought on condition. I've seen ex-race caterhams that were completely knacked and bodged - shockingly so.
As an example, I had to bodge my single seater to get back racing again recently. I took a corner off. We had to weld the top of the shock back on, don't even think about the suspension mounting point ripped off the chassis Horrendous, but got me back out. So if you buy an ex-racer that has 10 of those bodges, it's going to be ste.
So buy on condition. As someone else said, they are not complex cars to inspect and check out.
Bert
Wot I said. And if BaT's cars are still fettle by Stuart Faulds, then he's one of the reputable chaps too But I'd happily consider an ex-racer, but it needs to be bought on condition. I've seen ex-race caterhams that were completely knacked and bodged - shockingly so.
As an example, I had to bodge my single seater to get back racing again recently. I took a corner off. We had to weld the top of the shock back on, don't even think about the suspension mounting point ripped off the chassis
Horrendous, but got me back out. So if you buy an ex-racer that has 10 of those bodges, it's going to be ste.So buy on condition. As someone else said, they are not complex cars to inspect and check out.
Bert
I'd agree totally with Ruby.
Having had three ex Academy cars now I'd say it's a cheaper route into 7 ownership but it's not without it's pitfalls and, as Ruby said, you should judge the car on it's present mechanical and cosmetic condition (mechanicals over looks every time in my opinion though)
The trouble comes, as it did for me, when you throw a lot of money at the car to personalise it, you end up putting as much money in to an ex racer as it would have cost you to by a road car of the same spec in the first place.
My last car probably owed me in the region of £18000 but I struggled to sell it because it was an Academy car and many ask themselves the same questions you are now when looking.
So in all my waffle what am I saying - a good ex racer is a good bet if it's in decent condition, it'll never achieve resale of a road car despite what you do to it, it's a cheaper route to ownership and in my opinion only, worth a punt.
My current car is an ex Academy / Roadsport Championship Sigma - it's brilliant, tidy and sound but I won't be throwing a lot of money at it - I'll just drive it.
Good luck!
Having had three ex Academy cars now I'd say it's a cheaper route into 7 ownership but it's not without it's pitfalls and, as Ruby said, you should judge the car on it's present mechanical and cosmetic condition (mechanicals over looks every time in my opinion though)
The trouble comes, as it did for me, when you throw a lot of money at the car to personalise it, you end up putting as much money in to an ex racer as it would have cost you to by a road car of the same spec in the first place.
My last car probably owed me in the region of £18000 but I struggled to sell it because it was an Academy car and many ask themselves the same questions you are now when looking.
So in all my waffle what am I saying - a good ex racer is a good bet if it's in decent condition, it'll never achieve resale of a road car despite what you do to it, it's a cheaper route to ownership and in my opinion only, worth a punt.
My current car is an ex Academy / Roadsport Championship Sigma - it's brilliant, tidy and sound but I won't be throwing a lot of money at it - I'll just drive it.
Good luck!
rubystone said:
Speaking from experience, there are poorly looked after race cars too. This car, you say, has subsequently been tracked and raced after its life as an Academy car. If it comes with a sheaf of bills from a reputable race prep company, you're OK. If there's nothing to show, then judge it on its appearance.
Always remember that just as you'd expect to pay less for an ex racecar so you'd also expect to sell it for less and your market will be narrower.
And think about the average racecar. It's driven hard for 20 minute races, plus practice and qualifying. Each of those miles it covers is, aside from in and out laps, at full throttle, metaphorically (and in some cases actually) speaking. With the best will in the world a road car doesn't get driven in such an extreme fashion.
Final point. 7 owners don't generally neglect their cars. They're proud of owning them and will have a thick file of the car's history. Neglected cars stand out like a sore thumb. And they should be assessed on that fact too.
Spot on, my R400 is not raced, I have never scrimped on the maintenance or servicing, the chassis (arch) and mechanics are as good as they can be and should get top £ if I ever chose to sell it compared to a raced R400 and the new owner would actually be getting a car in good mechanical condition, then again those who wish to bag themselves a bargain of an ex raced car are welcome to do so. Always remember that just as you'd expect to pay less for an ex racecar so you'd also expect to sell it for less and your market will be narrower.
And think about the average racecar. It's driven hard for 20 minute races, plus practice and qualifying. Each of those miles it covers is, aside from in and out laps, at full throttle, metaphorically (and in some cases actually) speaking. With the best will in the world a road car doesn't get driven in such an extreme fashion.
Final point. 7 owners don't generally neglect their cars. They're proud of owning them and will have a thick file of the car's history. Neglected cars stand out like a sore thumb. And they should be assessed on that fact too.
radical78 said:
bough a2006 super grad similar to the one described above 10k miles had it 3 years been a greet car. even the non race will have done track days no one buys a caterham to drive slowly . just have a good look at the car and buy on condition don't worry about the past
Again another generalised statement, one golden rule for me is always use someone else's car for track days track and road use are two different things you cannot drive a car on the road like you can on track !
It's not my car you're interested in which is for sale ?
;-)
Ex academy car - a hand full of races in the first two years of its life then retired from racing.
Has less then 10,000 miles ( my Freelander had a k series engine that had done 160k miles with no problems - they are good engines ).
Cars been resprayed, has new carpets, leather seats, wide track, bilstein adjustable suspension and it's in very good condition .
I didn't really want to spend too much money when I brought the car just in case I hated the 7 experience but I love it. It's for sale because I want a car that has a LSD, 160-170 bhp, and aero screen and it's cheaper to get a car already in that spec then modifying my car.
Or is it ?
;-)
Ex academy car - a hand full of races in the first two years of its life then retired from racing.
Has less then 10,000 miles ( my Freelander had a k series engine that had done 160k miles with no problems - they are good engines ).
Cars been resprayed, has new carpets, leather seats, wide track, bilstein adjustable suspension and it's in very good condition .
I didn't really want to spend too much money when I brought the car just in case I hated the 7 experience but I love it. It's for sale because I want a car that has a LSD, 160-170 bhp, and aero screen and it's cheaper to get a car already in that spec then modifying my car.
Or is it ?
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