4ft drain cover hinders my moat build

4ft drain cover hinders my moat build

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rfisher

Original Poster:

5,024 posts

282 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Is this a surface water drainage main access duct cover or a sewer cover?

Bit cross that it wasn't seen on the searches done by my conveyancing solicitor.

Was hidden under 8" of topsoil and a bush.






carreauchompeur

17,830 posts

203 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
The thread title is the very epitome of a first world problem hehe

TheEnd

15,370 posts

187 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
It's a manhold cover, so inside there will be something like a junction between a couple of pipes.
Lift the metal cover off and have a look.

The top concrete plate is informally called a biscuit, and if you have the space, you can take the biscuit off, cut the concrete ring down a bit, and put it back on.

citizensm1th

8,371 posts

136 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
things puzzle me about this

a manhole on a boundry?? or is that a shed? not a fence

also the manhole cover is not in the centre of the biscuit( the concrete top to the chamber)and as these thing are cast normally with the hole in the centre is this just the builders burring excess materials?

open it up and take a peak for god sake's!

Simpo Two

85,149 posts

264 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
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Well a moat has water in it and a manhole has water under it, so I'm sure you can connect the two somehow...

TheEnd

15,370 posts

187 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
citizensm1th said:
things puzzle me about this

a manhole on a boundry?? or is that a shed? not a fence

also the manhole cover is not in the centre of the biscuit( the concrete top to the chamber)and as these thing are cast normally with the hole in the centre is this just the builders burring excess materials?

open it up and take a peak for god sake's!
The covers usually are offset, so the hole could be aligned with ladder rungs for a deep manhole.

It is a bit dodgy as it hasn't been cemented or concreted in place, and also it has been buried, and it's a heavy duty cover too.

You can slide it sideways rather than try to get the lid out of the frame, but be careful that you don't drop it down the hole as it's not fun trying to get one out from the bottom of a stinking manhole that could be full of sewer gas.

If it is a big chamber underneath, don't be tempted to climb in, as that can cause a couple of deaths from the person down there, and that person's mate who goes for the rescue etc, but I'd probably expect it to be only a couple of foot deep, and probably just a connection between a couple of sewer runs.





rfisher

Original Poster:

5,024 posts

282 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Ahhh so it's a Nazi bunker cover.

It's a nice new fence wot I built. But the actual boundry is about 2ft behind the fence so the whole thing is on my property. Too many tree stumps to build right up to the boundry line.

A dropped stone indicates a 6ft drop into water underneath.

Moving the cast iron cover may be tricky.

I presume the Council owns it not me so I'm a bit limited as to how much I can 'revise' it.

Ilovejapcrap

3,274 posts

111 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
citizensm1th said:
things puzzle me about this

a manhole on a boundry??
What has the boundary of a house got to do with a sewage distribution system layout ?

The answer is nothing by the way

citizensm1th

8,371 posts

136 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
TheEnd said:
citizensm1th said:
things puzzle me about this

a manhole on a boundry?? or is that a shed? not a fence

also the manhole cover is not in the centre of the biscuit( the concrete top to the chamber)and as these thing are cast normally with the hole in the centre is this just the builders burring excess materials?

open it up and take a peak for god sake's!
The covers usually are offset, so the hole could be aligned with ladder rungs for a deep manhole.

It is a bit dodgy as it hasn't been cemented or concreted in place, and also it has been buried, and it's a heavy duty cover too.

You can slide it sideways rather than try to get the lid out of the frame, but be careful that you don't drop it down the hole as it's not fun trying to get one out from the bottom of a stinking manhole that could be full of sewer gas.

If it is a big chamber underneath, don't be tempted to climb in, as that can cause a couple of deaths from the person down there, and that person's mate who goes for the rescue etc, but I'd probably expect it to be only a couple of foot deep, and probably just a connection between a couple of sewer runs.

I deliver these for a living and MOST (not all because some are offset) have the hole in the centre going by position of the cover in that picture it is very close to the edge and a hole that offset in the biscuit would compromise its strength. they are not that strong to start with iv broken plenty lol

happy to be proved wrong though every day is a school day etc.

citizensm1th

8,371 posts

136 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Ilovejapcrap said:
citizensm1th said:
things puzzle me about this

a manhole on a boundry??
What has the boundary of a house got to do with a sewage distribution system layout ?

The answer is nothing by the way
I would have though you would want the best access possible for a manhole for access, not having a bloody great big fence on the top of it.

TheEnd

15,370 posts

187 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
citizensm1th said:
I deliver these for a living and MOST (not all because some are offset) have the hole in the centre going by position of the cover in that picture it is very close to the edge and a hole that offset in the biscuit would compromise its strength. they are not that strong to start with iv broken plenty lol

happy to be proved wrong though every day is a school day etc.
You'd only be delivering the little tiddlers in that case. They might be more common for smaller housing jobs, but on the bigger sites that I worked on, they were always ordered as the offsets.

When they get over a certain side, the hole needs to be over the ladder rungs.

I forget the specs, but over a certain depth, they need to have steps in them, and they'll have the offset holes.



Squiggs

1,520 posts

154 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
We discovered something like that at our previous 35 year old property - when I removed the lid it was full of clean damp stones.
I always presumed it was some sort of soak-away, but I could never figure out what for as it was to far from the property to have anything to do with the house.
There was talk that donkeys years before our and the surrounding properties were built there used to be spring somewhere in the area - maybe it was something to do with that? Maybe if I had emptied it of stones I could have had a well?

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
TheEnd said:
citizensm1th said:
I deliver these for a living and MOST (not all because some are offset) have the hole in the centre going by position of the cover in that picture it is very close to the edge and a hole that offset in the biscuit would compromise its strength. they are not that strong to start with iv broken plenty lol

happy to be proved wrong though every day is a school day etc.
You'd only be delivering the little tiddlers in that case. They might be more common for smaller housing jobs, but on the bigger sites that I worked on, they were always ordered as the offsets.

When they get over a certain size, the hole needs to be over the ladder rungs.

I forget the specs, but over a certain depth, they need to have steps in them, and they'll have the offset holes.
The regs would seem to suggest that the hole is over 3m deep https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
where does the moat fit in?

dxg

8,122 posts

259 months

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
I design and build (road) drainage systems for a living and the ones we use have an offset chamber access within the biscuit so that the step irons line up rather than dumping someone in the middle of the chamber with a difficult climb out. Granted these are often going to be rather deeper than a residential manhole. That could be why the access is offset...

Rather than cut the chamber down, can you rotate the biscuit (anticlockwise about 60 degrees going by your photo), so that the access hole avoids the fence? Do you really want to build a moat or are you being all PH private? wink

If not a moat, then if you tell us the real reason, we may be able to give you better advice smile

m0ff

11 posts

105 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
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Judging by the 'PO' markings, I'd suggest it's a BT manhole and probably quite deep. To avoid all doubt, why not contact your local utility providers and BT/VM to obtain utilities plans to avoid any other surprises? They are usually provided for free.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
It's 100% not a BT lid, if it were old enough to have the PO markings it would have "GPO" or "Post Office", and would be a totally different style. It's definitely drainage, and a road-spec D400 lid.

ETA I have no idea if foul or surface, my first thought would be foul due to being in the (back?) garden, but it looks like a surface water lid/chamber.

Does the lid look like it has "FW" or "SW" stamped on it anywhere?


Edited by OpulentBob on Tuesday 4th August 07:12

normalbloke

7,401 posts

218 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
m0ff said:
Judging by the 'PO' markings, I'd suggest it's a BT manhole and probably quite deep. To avoid all doubt, why not contact your local utility providers and BT/VM to obtain utilities plans to avoid any other surprises? They are usually provided for free.
Awesome post!!

My money's on a soak away.

rfisher

Original Poster:

5,024 posts

282 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies.

I was actually planning to dig out the soil to make a pond.

This is at the side of the house but still within the front aspect.

Plot was a field before houses were built around 20 years ago. I reckon this drain was there before the houses were built and was heavy duty topped for agricultural vehicles. It's right up at the boundry line so it's unlikely that any crops would have been planted that close to the original fence.

AndrewEH1

4,917 posts

152 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
Have you gone down it yet?