997 C2S - any comments?

[ORD]

Any thoughts on this car? I think it looks pretty good and worth a look.

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

[The_Doc]

ORD said:

Any thoughts on this car? I think it looks pretty good and worth a look.

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

link doesn't work for me.

which dealer and what price, then we can look at it

[ORD]

Sorry. Details as follows. I think it's not got too much pointless tat and, frankly, it's a gorgeous colour!

Brookland OPC

C2S (manual)
Price: £ 43,995 (2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty)

Mileage: 49,172 m
Exterior Colour: Porsche Racing Green Metallic
Displacement: 3,800 cc
Power Output: 385 HP
Previous Owners: 3

Equipment

19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
6-speed manual transmission
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
BOSE® Surround Sound System
Extended navigation module for PCM 3.0
Heated seats
ParkAssist (parking aid rear)
Porsche crest embossed on head restraints
Rear section of center console in leather
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Sports seats
Telephone module
Trim strip switch panel leather
Universal audio interface
Windscreen with grey top tint

[The_Doc]

ORD said:

Sorry. Details as follows. I think it's not got too much pointless tat and, frankly, it's a gorgeous colour!

Brookland OPC

C2S (manual)
Price: £ 43,995 (2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty)

Mileage: 49,172 m
Exterior Colour: Porsche Racing Green Metallic
Displacement: 3,800 cc
Power Output: 385 HP
Previous Owners: 3

Equipment

19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
6-speed manual transmission
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
BOSE® Surround Sound System
Extended navigation module for PCM 3.0
Heated seats
ParkAssist (parking aid rear)
Porsche crest embossed on head restraints
Rear section of center console in leather
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Sports seats
Telephone module
Trim strip switch panel leather
Universal audio interface
Windscreen with grey top tint

All the non OPC 2010 cars at that money (and less) are <30,000 miles. So you are really paying a premium for an OPC car. And, the market is very much against manual Gen 2 997s when it comes to resale time. But it looks very nice, and you can relax happy with your purchase. I did note that recently OPCs are offering about 8% APR on the finance, which is pricey too seeing as the loan market is at it's 20 year best around 4.0%....

RSJ have a 2009 PDK 2S with 36k miles for £47k, so perhaps it is on the money.

oh and that colour would be an out-and-out no for me (again think not of the purchase, but of your resale of it in 2-3 years...)

just my opinions

[uktrailmonster]

The colour is the only unusual thing about it, so great if you like it. Not sure I'd want to be selling one that colour mind, so perhaps something to bear in mind down the road.

[uktrailmonster]

What amazes me is how well used prices of these are holding up. Pretty much the same price as they were 18 months ago. I suppose that's good and bad news depending on how you take it!

[ORD]

Thanks a lot for your help, Doc and UK.

If it will be worth less by reason of being green when I sell it, shouldn't it also be worth less now? The demand for the car from the garage is derivative of the demand for the car from punters, so surely the same factors apply? £43k does not look to me to include any "greenness" discount, given the mileage. I suppose the OPC might say that unusual cars impose higher costs on them because they sit around for longer (but those costs must be fairly small).

I think manual C2S Gen 2's should hold value better than PDKs once the cars edge towards being "classics", shouldn't they? Manual cars usually sell for more once only enthusiasts are interested. Rarity might also start to pay a part, mightn't it? Manual 911s are getting increasingly rare.

I don't think I would be put off because the on-sale value might be lower, but I don't want to take a hit without seeing it coming, so thanks for the warnings.

[Beknown]

Firstly, go for it! Also I think the manual is more desirable gearbox in 997 form.

Can I ask why the change though from your 987? I may be mistaken but from your other posts I thought you were after a current generation Porsche.

[ORD]

Beknown said:

Firstly, go for it! Also I think the manual is more desirable gearbox in 997 form.

Can I ask why the change though from your 987? I may be mistaken but from your other posts I thought you were after a current generation Porsche.

I am planning for when my son can go into a forward facing car seat. I figure that I may as well buy a good 997 now if I see one, rather than wait and then not have any turn up for months and months (which is fairly likely given that I am quite picky - manual, not black or white or silver, no PASM, etc).

No reason other than that to move on. I love the 987, and it has cost me a huge amount of money recently, so I would in principle prefer to keep it and let it earn its keep! (Biggest cost was due to me backing it into a post in a car park and needing a new bumper then deciding the get the rear cross-piece replaced just to be sure that it was back to 100% - about £2k. Other than that, just a major service, an extra minor service (because I don't think 2 years is sensible) and some re-spraying after a delivery driver mistook my parked car for a gap.

Once I found out that I couldn't buy a new 991, the attraction has fallen off completely. There are even fewer manual 991s than 997s, it seems, and the attraction of the 991 was that I could spec it myself and so get the bucket seats and pretty much nothing else. Nobody seems to think that the 991 drives better than the 997, so I am not inclined to spend much more to get a similar car with a worse gearbox. I'll of course test drive a 991 just to be sure, but I doubt it will be so much better as to make me spend another £20k.

[Beknown]

Thanks for sharing.

I am in a similar position although for slightly different reasons. Although I love my Cayman I have been looking to move into a 991 because they look nice and funds allow.

I had test drive a C4S and it just felt a bit average and I recently had a PDK loan car for over a week and no matter how much I try to convince myself I just couldn't live with PDK.

A Fiesta ST is more fun compared to a 400bhp 991 in my opinion, but can't hold a candle to a 987.

So where does that leave me? I have thought about a 997 but I don't know if its too similar to my current car, I don't want to pay an extra £15k for the same car in a slightly different body.

I'm genuinely a bit confused!

[ORD]

Perfectly good reasons to change car!

Perhaps some of your lack of love for the 991 is down to having driven the C4 variant. I don't doubt that the 991 is a bit more sanitised, but I would expect a 991 C2 to be at least much fun as a 997 C4 due to having only the correct wheels driven

It's a while since I drove a 997, but I do remember it feeling noticeably different from a 987, including that it was less flattering in corners and had even more traction on the way out. I found it slightly harder to drive quickly but perhaps a bit more engaging at normal speeds. This is all typical rear-engine vs mid-engine blah blah, I guess, but you don't have be at warp speed or trail braking or a driving God to notice the differences.

Why not look at a runout special 997? Would be about the same price as a lightly used 991 and probably a better prospect for holding value. Weren't there some GTS cars with a power kit and lots of cool pointless stuff in about 2010 or 2011? Prob cost 50-60k but a bit special.

[Beknown]

Thanks for your thoughts.

The drive of the 991 was in the dry and although I was making good progress I had a salesman next to me so couldn't push on as I normally would. I think I annoyed him when I called the car a bit poverty, £103k and no electric seat adjustment...

Also driven a 997 C4S PDK and yes it felt different at normal speeds although again I wasn't pushing it because the owner was sat next to me.

A 997 GTS is a nice idea, but then its that logical argument about paying more money for a car than the newer generation model costs. I will have to try one though as the power pack sounds very exciting.

[Chunk49]

ORD said:

Beknown said:

Firstly, go for it! Also I think the manual is more desirable gearbox in 997 form.

Can I ask why the change though from your 987? I may be mistaken but from your other posts I thought you were after a current generation Porsche.

I am planning for when my son can go into a forward facing car seat. I figure that I may as well buy a good 997 now if I see one, rather than wait and then not have any turn up for months and months (which is fairly likely given that I am quite picky - manual, not black or white or silver, no PASM, etc).

No reason other than that to move on. I love the 987, and it has cost me a huge amount of money recently, so I would in principle prefer to keep it and let it earn its keep! (Biggest cost was due to me backing it into a post in a car park and needing a new bumper then deciding the get the rear cross-piece replaced just to be sure that it was back to 100% - about £2k. Other than that, just a major service, an extra minor service (because I don't think 2 years is sensible) and some re-spraying after a delivery driver mistook my parked car for a gap.

Once I found out that I couldn't buy a new 991, the attraction has fallen off completely. There are even fewer manual 991s than 997s, it seems, and the attraction of the 991 was that I could spec it myself and so get the bucket seats and pretty much nothing else. Nobody seems to think that the 991 drives better than the 997, so I am not inclined to spend much more to get a similar car with a worse gearbox. I'll of course test drive a 991 just to be sure, but I doubt it will be so much better as to make me spend another £20k.

ORD - please can you PM me the details of where you got the respray and new bumper done and costs etc? I see from your profile you are in London. I am in London and looking to get quotes / find a good place to have the right wing / right bumper of my C2 resprayed after I scraped it on garage wall.

[uktrailmonster]

Yeah the 997 GTS would be a good shout and should hold value very well. They have so far. Centre lock wheels are a no-go for me though, but they can easily be swapped out and some didn't have them anyway.

I recently tested a 991 4GTS for the weekend and found it very nice, but not really worth the upgrade cost from my 997.2 4S. Difference between 2S and 4S is negligible by the way. 4S has slightly heavier steering and obviously works a bit better in slippery conditions. The difference in driving feel is very subtle and hard to tell which is which. I marginally prefer the 4S mainly because my wife drives it too and the handling is very safe in all conditions. We previously had a 996 C2 without stability control and she nearly lost it a couple of times in the wet and so 4WD was a must for the next one. Obviously worth saving the cash if you don't need the benefits of 4WD.

[charliedb2]

Hi - I have just gone through a similar purchase process. Ended up getting a 997.2 manual from Newcastle Porsche, it's a fantastic car and we can get our 1 and 3 year olds in the back when needed.

In regards to the car your looking at, seems a bit expensive for the mileage in my opinion, however I know there is a danger that we pay too much attention to mileage when buying a car in this country. I was conscious of it though as i will put 15k per annum on mine and plan is to keep it for 2 years and sell it before 50k miles are on the clock (it had 18k when I bought it).

I say if you want it absolutely go for it but push hard on price.

[Pepsi Max 996T]

High mileage, many owners, manual gearbox, unpopular colour, poor wheels. For goodness sake do not pay the asking price. Make an offer and don't budge. It will be a nightmare to sell later on so you really need to pay a lot less than the asking price. If they wont budge then walk away.

[ORD]

Mileage isn't a massive issue for me personally, but I agree that it should probably be reflected more in the price.

All work I had done to my 987 was through an OPC and therefore ruinously expensive, I am afraid! I wouldn't recommend it to you unless you need the OPC invoices for the purposes of selling your car back into the system. If you still want to know the exact details, though, I'll PM them.

Thanks for correcting me re the 4WD. I thought I might be spewing cliche and it turns out I was!

I have been sorely tempted by a 997 GTS in the past but agree re centre locks. I think it's a safe place to put money, though, to be honest. 'Specials' always do well even if not very special. It got rave reviews at the time.

[Chunk49]

Pepsi Max 996T said:

High mileage, many owners, manual gearbox, unpopular colour, poor wheels. For goodness sake do not pay the asking price. Make an offer and don't budge. It will be a nightmare to sell later on so you really need to pay a lot less than the asking price. If they wont budge then walk away.

Thanks ORD. Tried to PM you but it said you don't accept emails. It's a 996 C2 so not concerned with selling back into the OPC system (or paying inflated / marked-up OPC prices) but if you are happy with the work done and you happen do know which spray shop / garage the OPC sub-contracted the respray out to, please let me know and I may contact them for a quote.

[W12GT]

I have actually seen this car in the flesh when I went to look at another car. They've had it about 6weeks so might be able to get a deal. It's a really nice car and looks very different in that colour. Speak to Leon and he will look after you!

[g7jhp]

Looks like a good car but the colour would put me off.

If you've been looking at buying a new manual 991 surely you can spend a little more and get a 997.2 in a colour you really want.

It may take a month or so but one will come up. Just ask the usual suspects (911 Virgin, RSJ, JZM).

Porsche 911 Carrera S