Is the bubble about to burst?

[david hockney]

Yes- that's the issue- opportunity cost if you sell.......so you make a nice profit when you sell your 964 or 993 but what do you buy for 40 grand that replaces it ? I can't think of any car for similar value that I'd want over my 993........so regardless of profit there is no point in selling.

[kel176506]

david hockney said:

.......so you make a nice profit when you sell your 964 or 993 but what do you buy for 40 grand that replaces it ? I can't think of any car for similar value that I'd want over my 993........so regardless of profit there is no point in selling.

Interestingly thats where i personally think part of the recent price increase came from on the air-cooled cars and why the bubble won't necessarily burst and values decrease dramatically but instead just stabilise at current prices.

As David says, what could you buy for 40k to replace a 911 (regardless of era/variant)?

911's have duality and regardless of what era/variant you buy have always been incredible capable. They should contiune to hold their value because of this reason.

[highway]

The answer to that question is of course, another 911. This is the question for me. Good 993's (my definition of good) tend to start at £40k now. That buys you a 996 Turbo, gen 2 997, good 964 and loads of other Porsche variants. There's much choice at £40k ish.
I'm very fond of my 993 which I've kept longer than any other car I've ever owned. The newer stuff is great to drive. To suggest otherwise is bonkers. I'm seriously tempted.

[SEE YA]

highway said:

The answer to that question is of course, another 911. This is the question for me. Good 993's (my definition of good) tend to start at £40k now. That buys you a 996 Turbo, gen 2 997, good 964 and loads of other Porsche variants. There's much choice at £40k ish.
I'm very fond of my 993 which I've kept longer than any other car I've ever owned. The newer stuff is great to drive. To suggest otherwise is bonkers. I'm seriously tempted.

The thing is even at those prices are they any good?

Once you go car hunting, you come across so many poor 911's even at so called top money.
Then you have to spend more money, to get them up to a good standard?
So in the end it cost, you 40k plus then 20k plus more.

I know of people spent 65k on a 911 still end up adding 25k within first two years.

Edited by SEE YA on Thursday 27th August 20:34

[Modern Classics]

SEE YA said:

The thing is even at those prices are they any good?

Once you go car hunting, you come across so many poor 911's even at so called top money.
Then you have to spend more money, to get them up to a good standard?
So in the end it cost, you 40k plus then 20k plus more.

I know of people spent 65k on a 911 still end up adding 25k within first two years.

Edited by SEE YA on Thursday 27th August 20:34

I got into Porsches 10 years ago, for me I wanted to drive the ultimate car,
and when you drive/own a Turbo you feel it to be just that the Ultimate.
Having owned and driven everything now virtually 70s on, the Turbo cars
are where it is at for me and everything else feels a bit flat after that.

[Geneve]

Modern Classics said:

I got into Porsches 10 years ago, for me I wanted to drive the ultimate car,
and when you drive/own a Turbo you feel it to be just that the Ultimate.
Having owned and driven everything now virtually 70s on, the Turbo cars
are where it is at for me and everything else feels a bit flat after that.

The 'turbo' v 'n/a' really polarises opinions.

I've been driving 911s for 25 years, and never warmed to the Turbos. Three years with a 997 Turbo S and, yes, a formidable machine, but somewhat clinical and lacking in the feel, feedback and involvement delivered by, say, a 993, GT3 or even a 991.

WRT the market, I would anticipate, and hope for, some correction. Economic factors and market fatigue may play a role, but I would expect the very best cars at the right prices to remain robust - the really desirable cars are now accepted as mainstream investments and, like art and antiques, valued for their tangibility and usability.

[ORD]

The problem with the Turbo as a classic is that it's always been all about pace.
Over time, they stop being so fast compared to what's available and then look a bit dated.

Just my opinion on them - I know others think there is more to the Turbo than speed

[_Leg_]

Not had time to read the entire thread but a quick glance at an events list for the year demonstrates another factor. I don't think Ive ever seen so many supercar, classic, concourse, classic rally, euro trip etc events and activities before. You Tube channels galore about cars promote the scene as well. People such as Schmee make a living out of making selfie videos, without much production input, talking about cars - wtf? Petrolicious, Jay Leno, Evo, Monkey Harris to name but a few (more well produced) channels that get massive hits.

I watched the Pebble Beach coverage last night on You Tube in full (Mrs Leg is away) and its massive. Im at Salon Prive next week, first time, another example. Goodwood is internationally huge, both major events, too. They're the biggies, there are a myriad of grass roots events all across the world from the UK to Hong Kong, USA, South Africa, Europe. The "Scene" seems to be bigger than ever to me.

Lots and lots of people want to join in.

I did a local show 2 weeks ago that I did 2 years ago. Last time there were about 50 cars there, this year there must have been 250.

Be interesting to know how many members PH has now compared to 5 years ago. Anyone know?

[SEE YA]

ORD said:

The problem with the Turbo as a classic is that it's always been all about pace.
Over time, they stop being so fast compared to what's available and then look a bit dated.

Just my opinion on them - I know others think there is more to the Turbo than speed

The thing is people forget as above these old 911's are over twenty years old.

They are what they are, old cars warts and all. You buy one you know what they are? As for me A/C Turbo is sex on wheels for all angles, the looks pace its a package no one buys a ugly car no one goes out with a ugly women I bet.

To compare them with a today's Porsche's no point.

[stichill99]

Warts and all indeed! When I was getting my 993 airbag module fitted at OPC the technician said 'Well at least there are only 6 modules on this car,he pointed to a new 911 and said there are over 40 on it and then added, They will be a bloody nightmare when they are 20 years old and I bet your 993 will be a lot less bother!!

[Innowaybored]

Some people are getting greedy but I've noticed some cars seem to be really sticking.

Putting a £2K mark up on a 996 C4S (for example) after 6 weeks of ownership is taking the mick imo. (Lets hope he sees sense!)

[ORD]

Innowaybored said:

Some people are getting greedy but I've noticed some cars seem to be really sticking.

Putting a £2K mark up on a 996 C4S (for example) after 6 weeks of ownership is taking the mick imo. (Lets hope he sees sense!)

I dunno about that. £2k is about the right price for an AWD 996 But I am surprised he got it for free.

[roygarth]

_Leg_ said:

Not had time to read the entire thread but a quick glance at an events list for the year demonstrates another factor. I don't think Ive ever seen so many supercar, classic, concourse, classic rally, euro trip etc events and activities before. You Tube channels galore about cars promote the scene as well. People such as Schmee make a living out of making selfie videos, without much production input, talking about cars - wtf? Petrolicious, Jay Leno, Evo, Monkey Harris to name but a few (more well produced) channels that get massive hits.

I watched the Pebble Beach coverage last night on You Tube in full (Mrs Leg is away) and its massive. Im at Salon Prive next week, first time, another example. Goodwood is internationally huge, both major events, too. They're the biggies, there are a myriad of grass roots events all across the world from the UK to Hong Kong, USA, South Africa, Europe. The "Scene" seems to be bigger than ever to me.

Lots and lots of people want to join in.

I did a local show 2 weeks ago that I did 2 years ago. Last time there were about 50 cars there, this year there must have been 250.

Be interesting to know how many members PH has now compared to 5 years ago. Anyone know?

So true. I've been a car-nut forever. But its amazing how many not-so-car-nut friends have asked me for advice re. buying a classic or two in the last few years.

[Colonel Panic]

That has to be the sign of a bubble that's about to burst, surely!

[roygarth]

Colonel Panic said:

That has to be the sign of a bubble that's about to burst, surely!

LOL..fair comment….but their interest is not primarily from an investment point of view, more of a 'having fun with a classic' type of interest.

[g7jhp]

roygarth said:

So true. I've been a car-nut forever. But its amazing how many not-so-car-nut friends have asked me for advice re. buying a classic or two in the last few years.

I've had a number of friends asking me for advice over the last few months on buying a classic car. I always ask if it's for the fun of driving or more of an investment before pointing out that they need maintenance, insurance and prices could go up or down - that usually sorts out the enthusiasts from the speculators.

[highway]

Much as I've loved owning my 993 these past 6 years, the current price rises are becoming to hard to ignore. Im minded to try and cash out at top dollar then dive back in for something more modern.

[Mermaid]

highway said:

Much as I've loved owning my 993 these past 6 years, the current price rises are becoming to hard to ignore. Im minded to try and cash out at top dollar then dive back in for something more modern.

Interesting - lot of hot air in the old stuff, but newish stuff is normal market value.

[roygarth]

highway said:

Much as I've loved owning my 993 these past 6 years, the current price rises are becoming to hard to ignore. Im minded to try and cash out at top dollar then dive back in for something more modern.

I could swap my Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale for a McLaren 650S.

But I rarely find roads where I can use the Fez to its full in terms of acceleration, cornering and braking, I really don't know what I'd do with the extra that the Mac offers in those departments. Would it be more fun to drive than the Fez? I doubt it..it certainly won't have the mental exhaust bark and its not, from what I've read, as raw and visceral as the Fez.

What is pretty certain is that the Mac will cost me £20k per year in depreciation. Now the Fez may depreciate from here, but maybe it won't…it may even go up in value over the next few years.

So I won't be swapping to the newer stuff. But to be fair I don't do new stuff at all - my daily driver is a 1990 Renault 5.

[highway]

I've posted before on this site and others. The 997.2 is the "new" 993. Made for the same period, last of a line. I've had long term recent exposure. 385bhp is enough. It's easy, easy to drive and savage enough when opportunity presents. My 993 is babied. It's very mechanical to drive and quite charming but for me, I'd use a more modern car, well, more.

If you are willing to pay TOP dollar for a completely sorted 993 with massive spec, get in touch.