Discussion
LoonR1 said:
Djtemeka said:
Makes me happy to see those numbers.
My BKing is currently on 183rwhp and 115 torques.
Massive torque but the only thing is the weight. It was 145kg new. I wonder how much or little the carbon exhausts make.
I know it's a lot as the back box weighs a ton and also the original tail tidy!
I've probably lost 15kg in total.
I'll leave the rest of you to it, but this post is just pure schoolkid fantasy. Maybe you should race your B-King in BSB alongside the GS, as it'll be the only bike that could compete with it. My BKing is currently on 183rwhp and 115 torques.
Massive torque but the only thing is the weight. It was 145kg new. I wonder how much or little the carbon exhausts make.
I know it's a lot as the back box weighs a ton and also the original tail tidy!
I've probably lost 15kg in total.
spareparts said:
Chipchap said:
Steve/Ade
Now that I have a chance to read and digest all of this I have spotted a big flaw in the torque graphs that I will ask Iain to correct if he can and has time. The torque graphs are at a different scale to the BHP graphs so by doing this is will make them shorter and sharper looking,
So to get an idea I will ask him to overlay yours/mine and MattS's just so we can see BHP and Torque for 3 bikes on one page.
It may take a day or two so in the meantime Steve can amuse himself by ripping the arms off his Steif bear and sticking pins in an effigy of Frank Wrathal [Dynojet UK]
A
LOL! Now that I have a chance to read and digest all of this I have spotted a big flaw in the torque graphs that I will ask Iain to correct if he can and has time. The torque graphs are at a different scale to the BHP graphs so by doing this is will make them shorter and sharper looking,
So to get an idea I will ask him to overlay yours/mine and MattS's just so we can see BHP and Torque for 3 bikes on one page.
It may take a day or two so in the meantime Steve can amuse himself by ripping the arms off his Steif bear and sticking pins in an effigy of Frank Wrathal [Dynojet UK]
A
Whilst you're at it, can you drop Wilf, Hopper, and Egan at MotoRapido a line to let them know that there's a chap in SA who would be brilliant as a tuner in the MR workshop! And apart from the effigy, I'll send an abacus to help calc the weight. 165-3-3.5-1 = (I think it's 157.5). A bike is a particular weight given its components, or it isn't, ceterus paribus.
And if you're going to argue that a bike is a particular weight given its components, why do you insist on using a weight at which the bike cannot function as said bike?? without oil, water, battery it cannot work, or do you dispute that??. So by that measure, why not ditch the wheels? Or the suspension? Why not the engine as it can't be used anyway? Then you can crow about the bike weighing 10kgs!!!! Yet you claim HP figures that require all those components AND fluids to deliver that number.
And maybe it's you who needs the abacus?? Not sure how you can deduct the weight of a battery that doesn't exist in Ducats dry weight measurement to begin with???
So 165 -1 - 3.5 = 160.5
Maybe Wilf, Hopper or Egan can show you how it works....
Edited by bass gt3 on Monday 17th August 19:49
Some more dross:
1] The 1098R is heavily modified from std. The MV has light mods as does the K7 GSX-R, the Desmo had the factory race ECU and Race pipe. The K5 had a pipe and PC3 etc. The 14BE R1 was std apart from Akra system. The R1-M was std apart from full Akra sys and decat.
2] So there were no absolutely std bikes to use as a comparison of manufacturers quoted crank bhp vs Dyno Jet numbers at the tyre.
3] Steve is correct that a full bore through the gears run against a time axis would have reflected which bike accelerated fastest irrespective of whatever "horse power it is supposed to have"
4] It was just a fun day and I refrained from posting anything about the day so as to avoid the paralysis by analysis but have somehow managed to get embroiled anyway.
5]The scale on bhp vs torque is wrong so they don't cross at 5252 and this distorts the way the torque curve is reflected. I have asked for new ones if its poss ?
6] Mine is still the fastest :tongueout:
7] We could not locate anywhere to get a pick up for the R1-M as it was an unfamiliar bike and yes we could have done a calculation on speed/revs and entered it manually but decided not to in the end.
8] There is apparently some ongoing litigation over a blown R1-M ECU so the owner was nervous about dicking around with it, so the biggest safety mode was him.
9] It's a shame that there was no R1200GS as we all know that they are the fastest with the widest envelope of performance
10] Steve is probably "on the money" in that the 1098R could do with softening off a touch by changing the overlap as it is just too violent in its delivery. However I am not sure what the valve pockets look like in those 13.5:1 Pistal pistons or whatever Wilf put in or the actual lift or duration of the cams he fitted. What I do know is that my old crate is similar in that it has a hole at 6000 then it just climbs a mountain and wants to wheelie.
11} The most important thing of all was that this was 7 mates just dicking around and it was for fun and simple boasting rights down the pub. Even the owner of the dyno is still learning about it all. He is a fine motorcycle technician but that's no longer enough with todays advanced bikes. So the message here is : Chill out peeps.
1] The 1098R is heavily modified from std. The MV has light mods as does the K7 GSX-R, the Desmo had the factory race ECU and Race pipe. The K5 had a pipe and PC3 etc. The 14BE R1 was std apart from Akra system. The R1-M was std apart from full Akra sys and decat.
2] So there were no absolutely std bikes to use as a comparison of manufacturers quoted crank bhp vs Dyno Jet numbers at the tyre.
3] Steve is correct that a full bore through the gears run against a time axis would have reflected which bike accelerated fastest irrespective of whatever "horse power it is supposed to have"
4] It was just a fun day and I refrained from posting anything about the day so as to avoid the paralysis by analysis but have somehow managed to get embroiled anyway.
5]The scale on bhp vs torque is wrong so they don't cross at 5252 and this distorts the way the torque curve is reflected. I have asked for new ones if its poss ?
6] Mine is still the fastest :tongueout:
7] We could not locate anywhere to get a pick up for the R1-M as it was an unfamiliar bike and yes we could have done a calculation on speed/revs and entered it manually but decided not to in the end.
8] There is apparently some ongoing litigation over a blown R1-M ECU so the owner was nervous about dicking around with it, so the biggest safety mode was him.
9] It's a shame that there was no R1200GS as we all know that they are the fastest with the widest envelope of performance
10] Steve is probably "on the money" in that the 1098R could do with softening off a touch by changing the overlap as it is just too violent in its delivery. However I am not sure what the valve pockets look like in those 13.5:1 Pistal pistons or whatever Wilf put in or the actual lift or duration of the cams he fitted. What I do know is that my old crate is similar in that it has a hole at 6000 then it just climbs a mountain and wants to wheelie.
11} The most important thing of all was that this was 7 mates just dicking around and it was for fun and simple boasting rights down the pub. Even the owner of the dyno is still learning about it all. He is a fine motorcycle technician but that's no longer enough with todays advanced bikes. So the message here is : Chill out peeps.
Tim85 said:
Im sure ive got a fast bike or performance bike issue from this year that did loads of data around a circuit comparing a load of random different genre bikes and the newish aprilia 500cc step through scooter had higher corner speed than a new b king on all but one big fast sweeping corner. although the straight line speeds were obviously tons better for the burger king.
I've seen similar things happen with scoot versus sport bike. The King grips fantastically well so long sweeping are great for them but short tracks or tight corners aren't great for them. Whilst the ground clearance is very good on a King, their weight is a massive disadvantage on trying to flip it from one side to another. for sure!I think I can throw it around as good as my mates can on their bikes but then both they and I are occasional riders and not track gods. I do love connecting corners on a bike but living in london usually means an hour commute before I can find these roads so I prefer camping at drag strips and trying to launch bikes and feeling the acceleration.
I LOVE ACCELERATION!
My perfect bike would be something like a MT-09 with more power. Tourer, grip, and 150bhp. I think I may have described an SX1000 bmw (whatever its name is)
Thats perfect for me. 200kg. 150bhp. upright. luggage potential when needed. perfect.
TBH. the King bores me now as I cant use the power all the time. I have a CB500 and have such a laugh on it because its stock. quiet, low powered and I can get the exhaust down on corners
Love that bike. alas, its a bit broken, along with me after a car took us out
Chipchap said:
Some more dross:
1] The 1098R is heavily modified from std. The MV has light mods as does the K7 GSX-R, the Desmo had the factory race ECU and Race pipe. The K5 had a pipe and PC3 etc. The 14BE R1 was std apart from Akra system. The R1-M was std apart from full Akra sys and decat.
Only thing to say here is the D16RR torque curve is horrid!! Hopefully seeing that has got the owner onto sorting the bike out...1] The 1098R is heavily modified from std. The MV has light mods as does the K7 GSX-R, the Desmo had the factory race ECU and Race pipe. The K5 had a pipe and PC3 etc. The 14BE R1 was std apart from Akra system. The R1-M was std apart from full Akra sys and decat.
Chipchap]2 said:
So there were no absolutely std bikes to use as a comparison of manufacturers quoted crank bhp vs Dyno Jet numbers at the tyre.
Which is why inertia sweeps are pointless Chipchap]3 said:
Steve is correct that a full bore through the gears run against a time axis would have reflected which bike accelerated fastest irrespective of whatever "horse power it is supposed to have"
Not sure why this isn't used more as it's a better window on the bike. hey ho..
Chipchap]4 said:
It was just a fun day and I refrained from posting anything about the day so as to avoid the paralysis by analysis but have somehow managed to get embroiled anyway.
100%
Chipchap]5 said:
The scale on bhp vs torque is wrong so they don't cross at 5252 and this distorts the way the torque curve is reflected. I have asked for new ones if its poss ?
not really my gripe.. I take issue with DJ HP numbers Chipchap]6 said:
Mine is still the fastest :tongueout:
I expected nothing less Out of interest, I saw your bike is listed as running the MicroTec ECU?? How did you find it WRT fixing the power step characteristics on the MV engine?? Your curves don't look typical MV tbh
Chipchap]7 said:
We could not locate anywhere to get a pick up for the R1-M as it was an unfamiliar bike and yes we could have done a calculation on speed/revs and entered it manually but decided not to in the end.
Which is really odd. I thought the DJ Dyno could pick up LT or HT spark pulses from pretty much anywhere, even a single wire wrapped on a coil stick... Chipchap]8 said:
There is apparently some ongoing litigation over a blown R1-M ECU so the owner was nervous about dicking around with it, so the biggest safety mode was him.
Understandable..Chipchap]9 said:
It's a shame that there was no R1200GS as we all know that they are the fastest with the widest envelope of performance
Which kind of invalidates the test really... Chipchap]10 said:
Steve is probably "on the money" in that the 1098R could do with softening off a touch by changing the overlap as it is just too violent in its delivery. However I am not sure what the valve pockets look like in those 13.5:1 Pistal pistons or whatever Wilf put in or the actual lift or duration of the cams he fitted. What I do know is that my old crate is similar in that it has a hole at 6000 then it just climbs a mountain and wants to wheelie.
If the motor is running Pistal Hi Comps then it's identical in config to the curve I posted earlier depending on cams. There's plenty of scope for cam timing swings within the available valve timing window to mitigate excessive valve overlap but the bigger issue is which cams and such are employed in the first case I will never profess to know much about IL4's or such but I've built and dyno'd enough of these motors to have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. And Ades Torque trace says something isn't right.
And the question could be asked in retort that if these guys at MR or wherever are so good, how come Ades bike has the curve it does????? Just askin' like
Chipchap said:
11} The most important thing of all was that this was 7 mates just dicking around and it was for fun and simple boasting rights down the pub. Even the owner of the dyno is still learning about it all. He is a fine motorcycle technician but that's no longer enough with todays advanced bikes. So the message here is : Chill out peeps.
Edited by bass gt3 on Monday 17th August 19:15
Steve
I have the older M196 Microtec ECU [I think] and it was done in March 2011 so it has been on a while now. I never had a problem with the original as I am an old fart that harks back to riding bikes with 33mm Mikuni Smoothbores and the like so have developed a really smooth throttle technique over the years. However I was aware that it could be snatchy and that the ignition curves were engineered to get through emissions and drive by noise etc so the bike was not as good as it could be.
Another issue was the management of the temperatures which the Microtec addresses by being able to switch in the fans earlier and leave them on longer.
The ECU also controls the engine bleed valves better. They have some fancy name and functionality but in essence they are there to equalise crank case pressures I think.......
Overall the bike is cooler, faster and easier to ride. Add in the decat and modified silencers, air filter, billet water pump, samco hoses, alloy fans etc it is much improved but is still underneath it all an old design with slow but stable handling backed up an angry snarling motor.
Its way too much bike for an old duffer but hey I own it now so wont swap it.
A
I have the older M196 Microtec ECU [I think] and it was done in March 2011 so it has been on a while now. I never had a problem with the original as I am an old fart that harks back to riding bikes with 33mm Mikuni Smoothbores and the like so have developed a really smooth throttle technique over the years. However I was aware that it could be snatchy and that the ignition curves were engineered to get through emissions and drive by noise etc so the bike was not as good as it could be.
Another issue was the management of the temperatures which the Microtec addresses by being able to switch in the fans earlier and leave them on longer.
The ECU also controls the engine bleed valves better. They have some fancy name and functionality but in essence they are there to equalise crank case pressures I think.......
Overall the bike is cooler, faster and easier to ride. Add in the decat and modified silencers, air filter, billet water pump, samco hoses, alloy fans etc it is much improved but is still underneath it all an old design with slow but stable handling backed up an angry snarling motor.
Its way too much bike for an old duffer but hey I own it now so wont swap it.
A
Chipchap said:
Steve
I have the older M196 Microtec ECU [I think] and it was done in March 2011 so it has been on a while now. I never had a problem with the original as I am an old fart that harks back to riding bikes with 33mm Mikuni Smoothbores and the like so have developed a really smooth throttle technique over the years. However I was aware that it could be snatchy and that the ignition curves were engineered to get through emissions and drive by noise etc so the bike was not as good as it could be.
Another issue was the management of the temperatures which the Microtec addresses by being able to switch in the fans earlier and leave them on longer.
The ECU also controls the engine bleed valves better. They have some fancy name and functionality but in essence they are there to equalise crank case pressures I think.......
Overall the bike is cooler, faster and easier to ride. Add in the decat and modified silencers, air filter, billet water pump, samco hoses, alloy fans etc it is much improved but is still underneath it all an old design with slow but stable handling backed up an angry snarling motor.
Its way too much bike for an old duffer but hey I own it now so wont swap it.
A
Cheers Allan,I have the older M196 Microtec ECU [I think] and it was done in March 2011 so it has been on a while now. I never had a problem with the original as I am an old fart that harks back to riding bikes with 33mm Mikuni Smoothbores and the like so have developed a really smooth throttle technique over the years. However I was aware that it could be snatchy and that the ignition curves were engineered to get through emissions and drive by noise etc so the bike was not as good as it could be.
Another issue was the management of the temperatures which the Microtec addresses by being able to switch in the fans earlier and leave them on longer.
The ECU also controls the engine bleed valves better. They have some fancy name and functionality but in essence they are there to equalise crank case pressures I think.......
Overall the bike is cooler, faster and easier to ride. Add in the decat and modified silencers, air filter, billet water pump, samco hoses, alloy fans etc it is much improved but is still underneath it all an old design with slow but stable handling backed up an angry snarling motor.
Its way too much bike for an old duffer but hey I own it now so wont swap it.
A
A friend has a quite new MV which he's added to his garage and he's not too happy with the way it runs except at the top end. We were chatting about Microtec as I have the Ducati M197 version (Nemesis) on my Duc and he's been thinking of changing out for the M226 to try and get rid of some of the issues. And it works on the D16RR btw, maybe give your mate from the dyno day a nudge
bass gt3 said:
Cheers Allan,
A friend has a quite new MV which he's added to his garage and he's not too happy with the way it runs except at the top end. We were chatting about Microtec as I have the Ducati M197 version (Nemesis) on my Duc and he's been thinking of changing out for the M226 to try and get rid of some of the issues. And it works on the D16RR btw, maybe give your mate from the dyno day a nudge
SteveA friend has a quite new MV which he's added to his garage and he's not too happy with the way it runs except at the top end. We were chatting about Microtec as I have the Ducati M197 version (Nemesis) on my Duc and he's been thinking of changing out for the M226 to try and get rid of some of the issues. And it works on the D16RR btw, maybe give your mate from the dyno day a nudge
Gaven who owns the D16 will not mod anything I think. His D16 and his Bayliss 1098R are both as they left Bologna. As for the MV F4RR not sure if the Eyties have gotten around to sorting an ECU for the fly by wire bikes ? It seems to be the variable trumpets that bind and this causes the snatchy behavious, that and yet another s
tty ignition curve.Chris at X-Bikes in Wisbech is yer maun for Microtec though
A
Chipchap said:
Steve
Gaven who owns the D16 will not mod anything I think. His D16 and his Bayliss 1098R are both as they left Bologna. As for the MV F4RR not sure if the Eyties have gotten around to sorting an ECU for the fly by wire bikes ? It seems to be the variable trumpets that bind and this causes the snatchy behavious, that and yet another stty ignition curve.
Chris at X-Bikes in Wisbech is yer maun for Microtec though
A
Cheers, I'll drop him a line. The M226 says MY09 but whether that's for that year only or onwards is a bit unclear. Gaven who owns the D16 will not mod anything I think. His D16 and his Bayliss 1098R are both as they left Bologna. As for the MV F4RR not sure if the Eyties have gotten around to sorting an ECU for the fly by wire bikes ? It seems to be the variable trumpets that bind and this causes the snatchy behavious, that and yet another s
tty ignition curve.Chris at X-Bikes in Wisbech is yer maun for Microtec though
A
cat with a hat said:
Man makes new thread about his day out with friends.
Man gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
Exactly this. You can't take a sMan gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
t round here without someone telling you did it wrong. Loon, have you never heard the phrase "letting one through to the keeper"? Not every damn thing that isn't quite accurate has to be jumped on and pissed all over for you to sleep at night, does it?
bass, this is obviously your forte but I can remember when you used to skip straight to the useful info and helpful experience, without the need to windmill everyone before you get started. It was better then.
Most of the agro of the last week could be solved by folks just taking deep breath before they start furiously trying to put the whole internet to rights. You know what you know, surely that's enough? Some people are at the other end of the knowledge and experience curve than others and they're ok with it.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Monday 17th August 22:12
Edited by Reardy Mister on Monday 17th August 22:14
3king pathetic.
cat with a hat said:
Man makes new thread about his day out with friends.
Man gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
Its fMan gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
king pathetic.twizellb said:
3king pathetic.
cat with a hat said:
Man makes new thread about his day out with friends.
Man gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
Its fMan gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
king pathetic.
Like watching a bunch of playground bullies egg each other on.
Edited by John D. on Tuesday 18th August 09:46
cat with a hat said:
Man makes new thread about his day out with friends.
Man gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
It would also be a bit stale if everybody just agreed about everything that was posted.Man gets attacked by Biker Banter members and defends his original post.
Man leaves thread and decides never to share his experiences again.
Biker Banter members complain forum is stale.
Rinse and repeat.
Bassgt3's knowledge of these things whooshes right over my head but he does seem to know what he's talking about.
neelyp said:
Bassgt3's . . . but he does seem to know what he's talking about.
This is what makes forums interesting If the OP didn't want to discuss the day then why post on a forum ? This is what PH is about.What they ought to do is go on a track day somewhere like Silverstone . . . that needs a bit of bravado on a bike, being a huge, wide track, so easy to go at serious speeds with difficult sight lines too. Dyno days are like who's got the biggest balls by proxy, a track day means you have to get them out and nobody can pretend or hide !
George111 said:
neelyp said:
Bassgt3's . . . but he does seem to know what he's talking about.
This is what makes forums interesting If the OP didn't want to discuss the day then why post on a forum ? This is what PH is about.What they ought to do is go on a track day somewhere like Silverstone . . . that needs a bit of bravado on a bike, being a huge, wide track, so easy to go at serious speeds with difficult sight lines too. Dyno days are like who's got the biggest balls by proxy, a track day means you have to get them out and nobody can pretend or hide !
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