M3 - the new road to hell?
Discussion
We went down to the New Forest today and had the pleasure of the M3 50mph specs monitored road works today. Well when I say road works I obviously don't mean actual works: the usual mix of cones and no cones wit some contraflow. In fact I believe circa 25 miles of it in each direction!
Damn nightmare and apparently 'works' ongoing until 2018 - which means we won't be going back to that area of the world for another 2.5yrs unless we really have to.
Can someone in the know explain why such long amounts have to be screwed up - I would mind if it were a rolling programme for one junction to the next but why so much disruption over such long distances?
Damn nightmare and apparently 'works' ongoing until 2018 - which means we won't be going back to that area of the world for another 2.5yrs unless we really have to.
Can someone in the know explain why such long amounts have to be screwed up - I would mind if it were a rolling programme for one junction to the next but why so much disruption over such long distances?
W12GT said:
We went down to the New Forest today and had the pleasure of the M3 50mph specs monitored road works today. Well when I say road works I obviously don't mean actual works: the usual mix of cones and no cones wit some contraflow. In fact I believe circa 25 miles of it in each direction!
Damn nightmare and apparently 'works' ongoing until 2018 - which means we won't be going back to that area of the world for another 2.5yrs unless we really have to.
Can someone in the know explain why such long amounts have to be screwed up - I would mind if it were a rolling programme for one junction to the next but why so much disruption over such long distances?
It has nothing on the M1, which is now so awful I use the A1 instead. Damn nightmare and apparently 'works' ongoing until 2018 - which means we won't be going back to that area of the world for another 2.5yrs unless we really have to.
Can someone in the know explain why such long amounts have to be screwed up - I would mind if it were a rolling programme for one junction to the next but why so much disruption over such long distances?
All these huge, massive 50 zones that run for many years, I am half expecting some sort of announcement along the lines of "after monitoring road safety and air quality levels during the road works, we have noticed such a big improvement that the 50 limits will now become permanent"....don't laugh.
zarjaz1991 said:
It has nothing on the M1, which is now so awful I use the A1 instead.
All these huge, massive 50 zones that run for many years, I am half expecting some sort of announcement along the lines of "after monitoring road safety and air quality levels during the road works, we have noticed such a big improvement that the 50 limits will now become permanent"....don't laugh.
The sceptical part of me (which is a big part) is in absolute agreement with you. It's so dangerous - really difficult to maintain a high level of concentration at that speed on such big roads. I have found myself running the B road routes a lot more these days as it is more of a challenge and I don't feel the 'sleep mode' trying to kick in after the first 5seconds'.All these huge, massive 50 zones that run for many years, I am half expecting some sort of announcement along the lines of "after monitoring road safety and air quality levels during the road works, we have noticed such a big improvement that the 50 limits will now become permanent"....don't laugh.
I wonder how many families would be broken down (and businesses of course) due to people making the decision not to travel?
zarjaz1991 said:
It has nothing on the M1, which is now so awful I use the A1 instead.
All these huge, massive 50 zones that run for many years, I am half expecting some sort of announcement along the lines of "after monitoring road safety and air quality levels during the road works, we have noticed such a big improvement that the 50 limits will now become permanent"....don't laugh.
No one is laughing as it is a very real threat - 2014 Consultation to reduce M3 speed limitAll these huge, massive 50 zones that run for many years, I am half expecting some sort of announcement along the lines of "after monitoring road safety and air quality levels during the road works, we have noticed such a big improvement that the 50 limits will now become permanent"....don't laugh.
Rejected this time round but I fear it's only a matter of time
Whenever I'm stuck in one of those controlled 50 mile an hour sections, I can't help thinking how dangerous it is. All vehicles on the road are capable of that speed and do so, which means that everybody, HGVs, vans, cars and bikes are all stuck together spread across three (usually narrow) lanes all travelling at the same speed. Getting off at junctions becomes difficult and as someone else has said, concentration levels either go through the roof or drop off completely.
I drove it last Sunday and it was bloody ridiculous! Me and my mate were literally cursing it every 30 seconds or so, just hoping it would end! I really don't see the need to do it in one massive go, surely they could do it in stages?!
The only mildly positive thing about it was the gain in mpg, after getting 12 to the gallon in London traffic!
The only mildly positive thing about it was the gain in mpg, after getting 12 to the gallon in London traffic!
I feel the urge to "chip in" here for a general moan about the management of UK roads but with particular reference to the M3 (unfortunately) as experienced earlier this week along with the M20 and M25 back from the Eurotunnel...
Having spent two weeks driving the glorious French roads (granted that many of those used were Peage/toll roads - although not all) I returned earlier this week to the UK and - my god! Our roads (even those without roadworks) are in a terrible state in general. This brought home as immediately juxtaposed with the French experience. I know the traffic density in the UK is higher due to populatiuon density vs France but i noticed the following...
The M3 roadworks mentioned above - why so long? (to reiterate previous question posted) - and why seemingly very little work going on? I do feel that we should benefit from additional information as we are in fact paying for these repairs through our road tax system. Perhaps i could find this if i searched long enough but i want to be told there and then.
Rough serfices aside, our roads appear to undulate more such that vertical motion (over a short distance) is considerably greater.
Questions that come to mind are:
- Is government short-term-ism to blame (pensions and the decision to "rent" many of our hospitals being other examples)
- Is inferior tarmac used that does not last as long?
- Does the interpretation of "health & safety" mean that massive tranches need to be put under low limits
- Who gains from this?
- How do the French do it? (granted many roads are Peage/toill roads but why did i only see one set of roadworks in two weeks & over 4000km?)
- How can we improve the situation in the UK? Is investment the only answer or a blunt tool?
- If we are paying for it shouldn't we get a say in the matter?
Rant (mode) off...
Having spent two weeks driving the glorious French roads (granted that many of those used were Peage/toll roads - although not all) I returned earlier this week to the UK and - my god! Our roads (even those without roadworks) are in a terrible state in general. This brought home as immediately juxtaposed with the French experience. I know the traffic density in the UK is higher due to populatiuon density vs France but i noticed the following...
The M3 roadworks mentioned above - why so long? (to reiterate previous question posted) - and why seemingly very little work going on? I do feel that we should benefit from additional information as we are in fact paying for these repairs through our road tax system. Perhaps i could find this if i searched long enough but i want to be told there and then.
Rough serfices aside, our roads appear to undulate more such that vertical motion (over a short distance) is considerably greater.
Questions that come to mind are:
- Is government short-term-ism to blame (pensions and the decision to "rent" many of our hospitals being other examples)
- Is inferior tarmac used that does not last as long?
- Does the interpretation of "health & safety" mean that massive tranches need to be put under low limits
- Who gains from this?
- How do the French do it? (granted many roads are Peage/toill roads but why did i only see one set of roadworks in two weeks & over 4000km?)
- How can we improve the situation in the UK? Is investment the only answer or a blunt tool?
- If we are paying for it shouldn't we get a say in the matter?
Rant (mode) off...
AdamAJP said:
I feel the urge to "chip in" here for a general moan about the management of UK roads but with particular reference to the M3 (unfortunately) as experienced earlier this week along with the M20 and M25 back from the Eurotunnel...
Having spent two weeks driving the glorious French roads (granted that many of those used were Peage/toll roads - although not all) I returned earlier this week to the UK and - my god! Our roads (even those without roadworks) are in a terrible state in general. This brought home as immediately juxtaposed with the French experience. I know the traffic density in the UK is higher due to populatiuon density vs France but i noticed the following...
The M3 roadworks mentioned above - why so long? (to reiterate previous question posted) - and why seemingly very little work going on? I do feel that we should benefit from additional information as we are in fact paying for these repairs through our road tax system. Perhaps i could find this if i searched long enough but i want to be told there and then.
Rough serfices aside, our roads appear to undulate more such that vertical motion (over a short distance) is considerably greater.
Questions that come to mind are:
- Is government short-term-ism to blame (pensions and the decision to "rent" many of our hospitals being other examples)
- Is inferior tarmac used that does not last as long?
- Does the interpretation of "health & safety" mean that massive tranches need to be put under low limits
- Who gains from this?
- How do the French do it? (granted many roads are Peage/toill roads but why did i only see one set of roadworks in two weeks & over 4000km? )
- How can we improve the situation in the UK? Is investment the only answer or a blunt tool?
- If we are paying for it shouldn't we get a say in the matter?
Rant (mode) off...
You answered your own question.Having spent two weeks driving the glorious French roads (granted that many of those used were Peage/toll roads - although not all) I returned earlier this week to the UK and - my god! Our roads (even those without roadworks) are in a terrible state in general. This brought home as immediately juxtaposed with the French experience. I know the traffic density in the UK is higher due to populatiuon density vs France but i noticed the following...
The M3 roadworks mentioned above - why so long? (to reiterate previous question posted) - and why seemingly very little work going on? I do feel that we should benefit from additional information as we are in fact paying for these repairs through our road tax system. Perhaps i could find this if i searched long enough but i want to be told there and then.
Rough serfices aside, our roads appear to undulate more such that vertical motion (over a short distance) is considerably greater.
Questions that come to mind are:
- Is government short-term-ism to blame (pensions and the decision to "rent" many of our hospitals being other examples)
- Is inferior tarmac used that does not last as long?
- Does the interpretation of "health & safety" mean that massive tranches need to be put under low limits
- Who gains from this?
- How do the French do it? (granted many roads are Peage/toill roads but why did i only see one set of roadworks in two weeks & over 4000km? )
- How can we improve the situation in the UK? Is investment the only answer or a blunt tool?
- If we are paying for it shouldn't we get a say in the matter?
Rant (mode) off...
Matt Sketch said:
No one is laughing as it is a very real threat - 2014 Consultation to reduce M3 speed limit
Rejected this time round but I fear it's only a matter of time
And what's even more worrying, the consultation document openly admits that one of the targets is to "manage traffic growth", i.e. make the the road so annoying that fewer motorists use it.Rejected this time round but I fear it's only a matter of time
Consultation document said:
Q. Why not have a speed limit only next to the AQMAs? Why impose it on the M3?
A. The maximum mandatory 60mph speed limit is expected to have three complementary effects. Lowering the speed limit all the way between junctions 3 and 4 is expected to:
- Manage traffic growth,
- Reduce traffic emissions, improving air quality in affected AQMAs and sensitive receptors; and
- Reduce traffic noise.
Lowering the speed limit only next to the AQMAs would reduce emissions to some extent locally, but would not have the same effect of constraining traffic growth, and hence the number of polluting vehicles overall.
A. The maximum mandatory 60mph speed limit is expected to have three complementary effects. Lowering the speed limit all the way between junctions 3 and 4 is expected to:
- Manage traffic growth,
- Reduce traffic emissions, improving air quality in affected AQMAs and sensitive receptors; and
- Reduce traffic noise.
Lowering the speed limit only next to the AQMAs would reduce emissions to some extent locally, but would not have the same effect of constraining traffic growth, and hence the number of polluting vehicles overall.
The M1 road works around the Luton area took forever but eventually were completed , now there are more roadworks due to them building a new junction , why not done at the same time ?
When the southern part of the M25 was upgraded (turned into a revenue generator) the work was completed apart from resurfacing the road , The Highways Agency said resurfacing was not part of the job .This is due to be done later .
Drinking games and a brewery venue do come to mind .
The cost of lost time and increased distance due to avoiding road works must run to billions of £'s .
How many years have the M6 road roadworks been going on ? How many more years ?
I have a feeling the improvements take longer than the original motorway construction .
As for undulations , there is a spot on the M25 a couple of miles north of the Dartford tunnel where the dip and rise is so violent it sometimes knocks my truck out of gear , how many spots on motorways have grind marks on them where vehicles have grounded ?
When the southern part of the M25 was upgraded (turned into a revenue generator) the work was completed apart from resurfacing the road , The Highways Agency said resurfacing was not part of the job .This is due to be done later .
Drinking games and a brewery venue do come to mind .
The cost of lost time and increased distance due to avoiding road works must run to billions of £'s .
How many years have the M6 road roadworks been going on ? How many more years ?
I have a feeling the improvements take longer than the original motorway construction .
As for undulations , there is a spot on the M25 a couple of miles north of the Dartford tunnel where the dip and rise is so violent it sometimes knocks my truck out of gear , how many spots on motorways have grind marks on them where vehicles have grounded ?
The resurfacing on the southern side of the M25 where the widening was done around Clackett Lane is now complete. I'm not sure I'd agree that it's a revenue generator as the traffic does seem to flow better in the mornings now. However the reduced speed limits later in the day when traffic is flowing are completely arbritrary, either the variable speed limit system needs re-calibrating or if it has an manual operator then replacement by someone with even half a brain cell is overdue.
Widening live motorways will take almost as long as building a new one. As a contractor our preferred option would always be to shut the motorway completely and then carry out the work, it'd be quicker and safer for us. However I suspect if we were to use this approach on say the M3 there might be some complaints from the public.
The M25 depressions are caused by localised soft spots in the underlying ground and are often to do with water from springs. Basically the foundation softens and then the carriageway moves. There is a programme to fix them but it's difficult to take out the full depth of the road and replace it without putting on a lane closure for 48 hours.
Widening live motorways will take almost as long as building a new one. As a contractor our preferred option would always be to shut the motorway completely and then carry out the work, it'd be quicker and safer for us. However I suspect if we were to use this approach on say the M3 there might be some complaints from the public.
The M25 depressions are caused by localised soft spots in the underlying ground and are often to do with water from springs. Basically the foundation softens and then the carriageway moves. There is a programme to fix them but it's difficult to take out the full depth of the road and replace it without putting on a lane closure for 48 hours.
Jagmanv12 said:
What part of the southbound M3 has the 50mph limit?
Junction 2 (M25) to Junction 4a (Farnborough/Fleet) 18 milesA brief stretch of normality and then
Just after Junction 5 (Hook) to Junction 8 (A303) 11 miles
Utter nightmare
Edited by Matt Sketch on Thursday 3rd September 08:04
Our road network is appalling - too much traffic for too few motorways and too many bottlenecks and so many poorly maintained roads in towns and cities.
Traffic gets stuck in jams, it costs our economy, it puts us as a disadvantage vs the rest of Europe who have better roads having spent more to build more and now reap the rewards.
What's the solution? Simple - build more roads. Major road projects have a positive cost/benefit ratio so more than pay for themselves. And it's jobs for the contractors who get to build the road without angry motorists stuck at 50mph inches from them
Traffic gets stuck in jams, it costs our economy, it puts us as a disadvantage vs the rest of Europe who have better roads having spent more to build more and now reap the rewards.
What's the solution? Simple - build more roads. Major road projects have a positive cost/benefit ratio so more than pay for themselves. And it's jobs for the contractors who get to build the road without angry motorists stuck at 50mph inches from them
have to say that since the roadworks has stated,traffic flow has improved tremendously. ...long may they continue. Sorry to bump this thread. Am planning to drive up the M3 from J8 for the A303 to London tomorrow for the first time in months. Does anyone know if it is still 40 miles of mind-numbing average speed 50 zone, or have they finished the roadworks?
If the former, I'll take a gigantic diversion via the A31/A3. If the latter, I'll be very surprised.
Highways Agency website says roadworks only between J4-4a, but frankly I'd like a second opinion.
If the former, I'll take a gigantic diversion via the A31/A3. If the latter, I'll be very surprised.
Highways Agency website says roadworks only between J4-4a, but frankly I'd like a second opinion.
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