Mazda RX8 - What should I know?
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
1. Yes you have. The correct shutdown for a short start run (such as moving on the driveway) was mentioned some time ago in the thread. Rev the engine to 4000rpm then turn the key off. Clears the combustion chambers.
2. I'm guessing the reference is to the lack of ability to rev. The rotary will rev and rev and keep revving higher with seemingly no limit. Makes any other engine feel asthmatic and wheezy by comparison. Turbo petrol engines are notorious for their inability to rev (unless they make big sacrifices in low down torque or resort to complicted twin turbo setups.
The performance is 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and standing 1/4 in 14.8. Hardly poor. Its the way the power is delivered that fools an inexperienced driver. Its so linear there is no 'hitting boost', 'getting on cam' or 'hitting the VTEC step' so it feels subjectively slow when its actually anything but.
I don't see how a 9k VTEC would feel asthmatic? And to be fair its a bit stupid to say "complicated twin turbo setup" when the rotary costs thousands to fix if something goes wrong, which it probably will, its hardly a low stress V6/V82. I'm guessing the reference is to the lack of ability to rev. The rotary will rev and rev and keep revving higher with seemingly no limit. Makes any other engine feel asthmatic and wheezy by comparison. Turbo petrol engines are notorious for their inability to rev (unless they make big sacrifices in low down torque or resort to complicted twin turbo setups.
The performance is 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and standing 1/4 in 14.8. Hardly poor. Its the way the power is delivered that fools an inexperienced driver. Its so linear there is no 'hitting boost', 'getting on cam' or 'hitting the VTEC step' so it feels subjectively slow when its actually anything but.
Randomly I saw this on the TV last night
I doubt its the clutch as its says broken motor afterwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miyUiNqN_I
Bluehawk said:
Oh Dear... After all the reading I have done, I'm more undecided about trying one out than ever before (trying ownership that is)...
I think the only way I'm going to decide if I really like them is to stop sitting behind my keyboard, go out and drive one. THEN decide if I like it enough to "take the risk".
It appears the RX8 is bit of a 50/50 Car when it comes to the opinions out there...
I've found a reasonable 2006 not too far from me, so might see if I can get a test drive tomorrow.
Yes probably the best option, if you like one then buy one and take the risk and maybe with the money you save put it to one side for maintenance I think the only way I'm going to decide if I really like them is to stop sitting behind my keyboard, go out and drive one. THEN decide if I like it enough to "take the risk".
It appears the RX8 is bit of a 50/50 Car when it comes to the opinions out there...
I've found a reasonable 2006 not too far from me, so might see if I can get a test drive tomorrow.
stugolf said:
Bluehawk said:
Oh Dear... After all the reading I have done, I'm more undecided about trying one out than ever before (trying ownership that is)...
I think the only way I'm going to decide if I really like them is to stop sitting behind my keyboard, go out and drive one. THEN decide if I like it enough to "take the risk".
It appears the RX8 is bit of a 50/50 Car when it comes to the opinions out there...
I've found a reasonable 2006 not too far from me, so might see if I can get a test drive tomorrow.
Yes probably the best option, if you like one then buy one and take the risk and maybe with the money you save put it to one side for maintenance I think the only way I'm going to decide if I really like them is to stop sitting behind my keyboard, go out and drive one. THEN decide if I like it enough to "take the risk".
It appears the RX8 is bit of a 50/50 Car when it comes to the opinions out there...
I've found a reasonable 2006 not too far from me, so might see if I can get a test drive tomorrow.
apols if already posted
just to fuel the fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oXpfQiQtE0&fe... nice owner review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5FNjyaLfC8 RX8 review on Top Gear from back in the day.
"one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
you could always stick another couple of rotors in it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
just to fuel the fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oXpfQiQtE0&fe... nice owner review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5FNjyaLfC8 RX8 review on Top Gear from back in the day.
"one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
you could always stick another couple of rotors in it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
southendpier said:
RX8 review on Top Gear from back in the day.
"one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
Also, when they used to do their COTY awards on the TV show, the RX8 was a contender for several of the categories and eventually won an award for "Car that should of won one of these awards but didn't" "one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
They loved it!
Loved the car, loved that it was different, the standard trim for the time was amazing and still good today.
Topping it up with oil isn't a problem and oil isn't much. However didn't like topping it up after a long hard drive away from home finding your 1 ltr oil bottle (which you always have in your boot) had only a little left in the bottle then having to find somewhere to buy more. Bought a load of disposable paper funnels from ebay to help!
Flooding was a massive issue for me. I kicked myself twice for being stupid:
1. rolled it off drive to wash it and instantly turned it off. Flooded it and flat battery from trying to start it. AA couldn't start it (plugs out.. wheels off to reach them), Mazda garage cranked it for 3 mins none stop eventually started but was horrible to watch and ruined starter motor.
2. Driving the car over the road from works car park to petrol station flooded it.
Eventually lost compression and lost £££
Topping it up with oil isn't a problem and oil isn't much. However didn't like topping it up after a long hard drive away from home finding your 1 ltr oil bottle (which you always have in your boot) had only a little left in the bottle then having to find somewhere to buy more. Bought a load of disposable paper funnels from ebay to help!
Flooding was a massive issue for me. I kicked myself twice for being stupid:
1. rolled it off drive to wash it and instantly turned it off. Flooded it and flat battery from trying to start it. AA couldn't start it (plugs out.. wheels off to reach them), Mazda garage cranked it for 3 mins none stop eventually started but was horrible to watch and ruined starter motor.
2. Driving the car over the road from works car park to petrol station flooded it.
Eventually lost compression and lost £££
Edited by itidiot on Monday 24th August 15:30
Edited by itidiot on Monday 24th August 15:33
TREMAiNE said:
southendpier said:
RX8 review on Top Gear from back in the day.
"one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
Also, when they used to do their COTY awards on the TV show, the RX8 was a contender for several of the categories and eventually won an award for "Car that should of won one of these awards but didn't" "one of the easiest car to drive fast I've ever come across"
"perfect layout"
"this car is sensational"
They loved it!
Moonhawk said:
I had a test drive a few years back and found the rear end quite twitchy in the wet.
The standard Bridgestone RE040 tyres don't have a good reputation in the wet. I always thought they were OK, but no better than that. A lot of owners put RE050A on instead, which are said to be much better in the wet. I tried it, and agreed with that assessment, but also thought that they felt a bit woollier the rest of the time. The stability control will allow a decent amount of oversteer before reigning it in - on a skid pan, it does a good job at telling the difference between having a bit of fun and running out of talent. With the stability/traction turned off, it will happily do the 3.0 litre Capri bit. I used to turn the stability off to get out of the kind of junctions where you need to give it some welly, because the traction control aspect from a standing start could be a bit heavy handed. I once did that entering a large wet roundabout, didn't turn it back on, and gave it a bit too much throttle on the exit road. Brown trouser moment.
I'm astonished at a lot of the fallacies restated in here. I figured, as they'd been done to death a million times, they'd be sorted by now.
Anyway, it's not FAST by modern standards (where hot hatches do 0-62 in 5 seconds), but 6.4 seconds 0-62 is hardly lethargic - Sure you need to drive it HARD to do that, so if you love diesel turbo power delivery and MPG look elsewhere. Round the bends, it'll take a very enthusiastically driven hatch (or BMW 3 Series) to lose you (or keep up).
MPG - I get 21 on average, it's low, so if you can't deal with that, look elsewhere.
It's comfy, roomy, handles excellently and has a good (BOSE) stereo. People love the doors and some love the engine note (whilst others HATE it).
They rust, they use some oil (This IS grossly overstated my armchair experts - it's the easiest way to spot one), the Xenon adjuster on early models leak and need replacing.
The engine WILL need a rebuild sometime - Mine lasted to about 70,000 - The rear oil seal broke up and that wrecked the rotors. May have been down to a broken rear engine mount (hard to spot as the engine is so smooth - Even just before I had it rebuilt mine would hit the limiter), so if buying second hand and seeing a 'bargain', factor in that cost too (£2500 for the engine probably)- You may get lucky, you may not...
The "Just stick an LS1 in it" comments are always trooped out and that's a common swap for RX7s in the US, but few do it with 8s (most that are, are dragsters or hot-rods, not daily drivers), because the engine sits lower and further back in an 8 than in a 7. Also the balance of an 8 is ruined by a V8 as the 7's turbos and intercoolers weigh more than the engine and so sticking in a V8 doesn't make as much difference in the older car.
You really need to drive one for a while to get a feel for them because they are different. I reckon it took me 3 months to REALLY gel with it. Not everyone will like them even then, but of those who persevere many struggle to find a good replacement (I've had mine 7 years now and though I need a more practical car - Estate or Hatch - I can't part with it). When the engine went I looked around and couldn't find anything vaguely interesting for twice what the rebuild cost and most of those had higher mileage and/or dubious histories), so I think the rebuild was good value, personally, but many will think I was mad...
If you only need two seats an S2000 is a decent option, the 350ZX is a vaguely similar style car, but less practical and chalk and cheese in how it goes about things - On a dual carriageway the Nissan will win, on a B-Road the RX8 will, in between it'll be nip and tuck. A BMW 3 series is RWD and a 328-330 will be a bit quicker and feel 'pokier', but it'll feel like a truck to drive by comparison. If you're looking at FWD hot hatches, you're not really in the market for an RX-8 I don't think.
With an open mind you won't find a better handling, quicker 4 seater for £2000, but it's not the PERFECT car.
M
Anyway, it's not FAST by modern standards (where hot hatches do 0-62 in 5 seconds), but 6.4 seconds 0-62 is hardly lethargic - Sure you need to drive it HARD to do that, so if you love diesel turbo power delivery and MPG look elsewhere. Round the bends, it'll take a very enthusiastically driven hatch (or BMW 3 Series) to lose you (or keep up).
MPG - I get 21 on average, it's low, so if you can't deal with that, look elsewhere.
It's comfy, roomy, handles excellently and has a good (BOSE) stereo. People love the doors and some love the engine note (whilst others HATE it).
They rust, they use some oil (This IS grossly overstated my armchair experts - it's the easiest way to spot one), the Xenon adjuster on early models leak and need replacing.
The engine WILL need a rebuild sometime - Mine lasted to about 70,000 - The rear oil seal broke up and that wrecked the rotors. May have been down to a broken rear engine mount (hard to spot as the engine is so smooth - Even just before I had it rebuilt mine would hit the limiter), so if buying second hand and seeing a 'bargain', factor in that cost too (£2500 for the engine probably)- You may get lucky, you may not...
The "Just stick an LS1 in it" comments are always trooped out and that's a common swap for RX7s in the US, but few do it with 8s (most that are, are dragsters or hot-rods, not daily drivers), because the engine sits lower and further back in an 8 than in a 7. Also the balance of an 8 is ruined by a V8 as the 7's turbos and intercoolers weigh more than the engine and so sticking in a V8 doesn't make as much difference in the older car.
You really need to drive one for a while to get a feel for them because they are different. I reckon it took me 3 months to REALLY gel with it. Not everyone will like them even then, but of those who persevere many struggle to find a good replacement (I've had mine 7 years now and though I need a more practical car - Estate or Hatch - I can't part with it). When the engine went I looked around and couldn't find anything vaguely interesting for twice what the rebuild cost and most of those had higher mileage and/or dubious histories), so I think the rebuild was good value, personally, but many will think I was mad...
If you only need two seats an S2000 is a decent option, the 350ZX is a vaguely similar style car, but less practical and chalk and cheese in how it goes about things - On a dual carriageway the Nissan will win, on a B-Road the RX8 will, in between it'll be nip and tuck. A BMW 3 series is RWD and a 328-330 will be a bit quicker and feel 'pokier', but it'll feel like a truck to drive by comparison. If you're looking at FWD hot hatches, you're not really in the market for an RX-8 I don't think.
With an open mind you won't find a better handling, quicker 4 seater for £2000, but it's not the PERFECT car.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Monday 24th August 16:31
otolith said:
You can get V8 engines which aren't a huge amount heavier, but they are a lot taller. They won't fit right under the scuttle and behind the front axle like the rotary, in all the pictures I've seen of conversions the V8 is sat over the front wheels.
A fully dressed Renesis is 122kg, a fully dressed LS1 is 225kg. That's 100kg more moved around a foot forward, and higher to boot. Great for drag racing, removes almost all of the RX8's USP.stugolf said:
I don't see how a 9k VTEC would feel asthmatic? And to be fair its a bit stupid to say "complicated twin turbo setup" when the rotary costs thousands to fix if something goes wrong, which it probably will, its hardly a low stress V6/V8
Regarding VTEC, I've had at least a dozen of those and the difference is that the RX8 is always smooth. Most VTEC engines are relatively smooth when you're hard on it and in the zone, but the on part throttle or in mid revs, the higher factory tuned ones feel lumpy, occasionally recalcitrant and sound like a bucket of spanners. As to the second point, any engine can cost thousands if something goes wrong. The point is that a rotary has very few moving parts so the likelihood of failure, bar apex seals, is far lower. The more cylinders and the more valves, the more friction anyway. And, given that a complete refurb on a 13B is cheaper than my old Evo X's gearbox or STI's short block by £3,000, I don't think the costs are as much of an issue.
Ali_T said:
As to the second point, any engine can cost thousands if something goes wrong. The point is that a rotary has very few moving parts so the likelihood of failure, bar apex seals, is far lower. .
You serious? The only reason this thread is 6 pages long is because of the failures and people trying to justify it!You missed some stuff out there such as:
1. Many CATs need replacing after 40k
2. Coil packs are an issue (not major)
3. Engine Failures - 60k engine rebuild, very common
4. Lack of oil - Because they drink it
5. Lack of care - Make sure you redline it everyday
6. Don't forget the starting procedure or it'll break so poor hot start/cold start
7. Save up and buy a jet engine, they will use less fuel and cost lees in tax and they have little moving parts
8. Poor lumpy not smooth performance if the Apex seals are on their way out
Slightly off topic, but what are the engineering reasons behind the low mpg? It seems to be the big sticking point with the RX8 (and the beautiful RX7 before it), which otherwise has a long list of attractive reasons to own one. Is it purely that the technology hasn't been honed as much as comparative four stroke 4 and 6 cyl engines? I should imagine 20mpg was normal out of a 200bhp straight six in years past; could it be that with more investment and development we might theoretically get a 30-40mpg rotary engine car one day?
RobM77 said:
Slightly off topic, but what are the engineering reasons behind the low mpg? It seems to be the big sticking point with the RX8 (and the beautiful RX7 before it)
I think it is because of how the engine works. A lot of fuel goes unburnt during combustion and is wasted. That's why if you drive an RX8 like an old man it will get the same MPG as if you were driving like you stole it. When being driven spiritedly, they actually are not much worse (if at all) from 350Z's, Boxsters etc when they're being thrashed, the only difference in those cars is the second you calm down and drive sensibly the MPG shoots up... Then when you look at your trip computer you might see and average 28mpg whereas the RX8 would be a 18mpg - so realistically, if you drive with a heavy foot they're not as bad as they look on fuel - if you drive 'normally' with the occasional B-Road hoon then they are as bad as they look!
I just used it as an excuse to sit at 9,500RPM everywhere I went! 
RobM77 said:
Slightly off topic, but what are the engineering reasons behind the low mpg?
One of them is that the effective surface area to volume ratio of the combustion chamber is much larger than that of a cylinder. Another is that some of the technologies used in modern piston engines don't have implementations for rotaries (or have less effective implementations).
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