Three generations of GT3 tested [Autocar]

[RSVP911]

Fl0pp3r said:

I'm gonna flame the next person that talks money on this thread

996.2 GT3 vs 997.2 GT3 vs 991.1 GT3 - discuss!

+1

[RSVP911]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I was at the Ring yesterday... 2 996.1 GT3s - my Manthey and a bone stock comfort, 2 996.2 GT3s - a bone stock CS and another heavily modded CS... 997.1 there were at least 5, while 997.2 were two a penny - counted at least 10+, with at least 4 RSs

As to the early v.s latest car debate... While I derived immense satisfaction from getting the heel-and-toe bang on perfect to get from 6th to 3d while braking for Aremberg, I know that if I wanted to go fast consistently, a tug of the paddle IS the preferred method. Also, I was longing for adjustable damping and creature comforts while hammering it down on the E40 in a car running fully rose-jointed suspension. While at present I don't agree with the direction Porsche has taken with the GT3, I can totally see why they did it. And who knows, one day, I may actually end up with one...

Maybe you should give it the benefit of the doubt , they really are rather a lot of fun

[hornbaek]

[quote=RSVP911]

How's this ?



Any idea who could provide this or other decals for that matter ?

[RSVP911]

hornbaek]SVP911 said:

How's this ?



Any idea who could provide this or other decals for that matter ?

Hi there - this is the 997.1 RS decal and you can purchase via the OPC , they are getting one for me for mine - just can't decide on White or Lava , I have to lock down the order very soon as it's an October production slot (anyone else with an October slot locked down yet ?) I am at the PEC on Wednesday to have my first spin in one and at this point I will make my colour choice - I know they have a Lava one , but I believe they have another different colour there too - does anyone know if this is correct & if so what colour it is ? Any thoughts on colours ??

[RSVP911]

Question - back on topic (apologies for decal deviation) Has anyone driven a 997.2 RS and a 997.2 4.0 RS - are they that different ?

[Tripe Bypass]

RSVP911 said:

Question - back on topic (apologies for decal deviation) Has anyone driven a 997.2 RS and a 997.2 4.0 RS - are they that different ?

Stefan1 gave a brief back to back comparison a week or so ago here saying he felt the 3.8 had a little more compliance on real UK roads.

[Digga]

hornbaek]SVP911 said:

How's this ?



Any idea who could provide this or other decals for that matter ?

Not used them, but did find this place; http://www.designstuffonline.co.uk/vehicle_graphic...

TBH, any decent vehicle signwriters ought to be able to knock-up and install copy or custom stripes and graphics with ease.

[terryb]

hornbaek]SVP911 said:

How's this ?



Any idea who could provide this or other decals for that matter ?

Only 1 place for 911 graphics - http://www.highgatehouse.co.uk

They supplied the graphics for my old 996

[Mermaid]

terryb said:

[isaldiri]

RSVP911 said:

Question - back on topic (apologies for decal deviation) Has anyone driven a 997.2 RS and a 997.2 4.0 RS - are they that different ?

the 4.0 definitely has the better engine. Handling wise though I found them really quite similar although a friend in Germany who has tried them both says in the high speed sections of the ring (in particular kesselchen) the 4.0 is significantly better. I have heard that the 4.0 has quite a few under the body changes which do add up but personally the 3.8 is realistically far far closer to the 4.0 than the price differential warrants now. The price as new of £~20k perhaps is far more reflective of the difference between the cars I reckon.

[rosino]

RSVP911 said:

Cheburator mk2 said:

I was at the Ring yesterday... 2 996.1 GT3s - my Manthey and a bone stock comfort, 2 996.2 GT3s - a bone stock CS and another heavily modded CS... 997.1 there were at least 5, while 997.2 were two a penny - counted at least 10+, with at least 4 RSs

As to the early v.s latest car debate... While I derived immense satisfaction from getting the heel-and-toe bang on perfect to get from 6th to 3d while braking for Aremberg, I know that if I wanted to go fast consistently, a tug of the paddle IS the preferred method. Also, I was longing for adjustable damping and creature comforts while hammering it down on the E40 in a car running fully rose-jointed suspension. While at present I don't agree with the direction Porsche has taken with the GT3, I can totally see why they did it. And who knows, one day, I may actually end up with one...

Maybe you should give it the benefit of the doubt , they really are rather a lot of fun

I think the article like too many of these articles fails to understand that we live in the real world. And not (at least most of us) on the doorstep of the Ring.

I have a very busy schedule and moments to properly enjoy the car are rare. And involve driving to and from the destination most of the time. Often through Shute/congested/poorly surfaced roads. England is just horrid when compared to the continent for availability of decent driving roads.

So for me the new 991 GT3 meant a usable car also on our rubbish roads. And not something that would only come alive once a year in driving nirvana. I get to access enjoyment much more often. Even in Kent on a Sunday sunny morning in broken surfaces without the car sending me into the first tree because of lack of suspension pliance.

Then if I could keep a car in the South of France or the Italian Dolomites for holiday use only then I could think about something properly uncompromising. But I think only a very limited number of people can buy a 150k car to be driven on a "EVO" road only a few times/year.

[LaSource]

Are 964 RSs and 993 RSs much more road compliant compared to 996 GT3s (for instance)?

[Sine Metu]

While the 996 has a particularly unique, lets say individually iconic as opposed to 911 iconic, look to it, I think the 997 is better looking (albeit heavier looking) and the 991 better looking again. In fact the 991 really is a beautiful looking thing. But I can understand why people gravitate to the 996 shape. It just looks so lithe and svelte and 'classic sports car' in a timeless 1960's meets 70's concept car way. But then again a lot of people just don't like the 996 shape and so the 996 GT3 just will never stir their souls. In fact for a lot of 911 enthusiasts nothing past the 964 (and sometimes the 993) even counts as a 911 anyway. I love the 996 design but then I have one so I'm suffering from Stockholm Car Syndrome.

From a driving perspective, the mission brief of a GT3 is to be as fast around a circuit as possible while still being somewhat bearable on the road. Each generation meets that brief over and above the previous generation (or else all Porsche engineers should be sacked immediately). So it's a pointless debate brought about by journalists stuck for something new about 911's to discuss as each magazine issue comes around. The answer is simple. Money no object, one buys the 991 GT3.

Edited by Sine Metu on Wednesday 26th August 17:31

Edited by Sine Metu on Wednesday 26th August 17:32

[LaSource]

Sine Metu said:

The answer is simple. Money no object, one buys the 991 GT3.

...unfortunately, nil point on that answer

My hesitation with a 991 is not an affordability one...though I do think it is a good car and I would welcome it as an addition to a collection of GT3s, but not as a replacement to previous iterations.

Agree with your stockholm syndrome infliction - I have that too! I find the 996 GT3s very attractive (square eyes obviously)...the later cars are admitidly even more attractive, but not to the extent to overcome the inherent joy of the 996 GT3 platform and make me kick a 996 GT3 out of my garage.

[RSVP911]

isaldiri said:

the 4.0 definitely has the better engine. Handling wise though I found them really quite similar although a friend in Germany who has tried them both says in the high speed sections of the ring (in particular kesselchen) the 4.0 is significantly better. I have heard that the 4.0 has quite a few under the body changes which do add up but personally the 3.8 is realistically far far closer to the 4.0 than the price differential warrants now. The price as new of £~20k perhaps is far more reflective of the difference between the cars I reckon.

Cheers

[Sine Metu]

LaSource said:

Sine Metu said:

The answer is simple. Money no object, one buys the 991 GT3.

...unfortunately, nil point on that answer

My hesitation with a 991 is not an affordability one...though I do think it is a good car and I would welcome it as an addition to a collection of GT3s, but not as a replacement to previous iterations.

Agree with your stockholm syndrome infliction - I have that too! I find the 996 GT3s very attractive (square eyes obviously)...the later cars are admitidly even more attractive, but not to the extent to overcome the inherent joy of the 996 GT3 platform and make me kick a 996 GT3 out of my garage.

Buy a 991 GT3. You'll soon get Stockholm Car Syndrome for it. We all still have a thing for past girlfriends but we move on!

[LaSource]

Sine Metu said:

Buy a 991 GT3. You'll soon get Stockholm Car Syndrome for it. We all still have a thing for past girlfriends but we move on!

I don't subscribe to the blanket view that every 'older' car is history and we should all be moving on the latest and most modern we can afford...depends how/where you use them. I have driven a 991 on the road and pax'd in one on track and whilst impressive, it didn't motivate a migration over to it. But we are all different and that's fine.

But agree most people get attached to whatever they have chosen to buy...hence the regular pissing contests on PH

[Sine Metu]

LaSource said:

Sine Metu said:

Buy a 991 GT3. You'll soon get Stockholm Car Syndrome for it. We all still have a thing for past girlfriends but we move on!

I don't subscribe to the blanket view that every 'older' car is history and we should all be moving on the latest and most modern we can afford...depends how/where you use them. I have driven a 991 on the road and pax'd in one on track and whilst impressive, it didn't motivate a migration over to it. But we are all different and that's fine.

But agree most people get attached to whatever they have chosen to buy...hence the regular pissing contests on PH

It must be tough for Porsche engineers sometimes. Apart from the rapidly evolving external completion they need to match (and for a company like Porsche who unlike say heritage companies like Morgan or Bristol or something like that, the imperative is to compete), they have this incredible internal competition. So your asked to produce a car that can go faster, handle better, have better emissions, better economy, be more reliable etc. etc. But above all, be faster round a track in all conditions. So to achieve that some things have to be sacrificed sometimes. IF we were talking about a Carrera which doesn't have to win the Nurburgring challenge every time out, it's a different story. Overall drivability, comfort etc has to be retained. But in the cut throat furnace of performance car metrics, what makes Porsche so special is their continuing ability to make a rear engine car superlative, let alone merely competitive. That's what a G3 is. Hence my appreciation of the fact that each generation gets better at what their meant to do. And lets not forget, our poor Porsche engineers have to do all this within the framework of a regular production car. In other words, their not allowed move the engine into the middle for example even though they could. Or gut the roofline and lower the whole aerodynamic profile. It must be frustration for them to create these utterly brilliant cars and then some voice whispers that, hmm, the last one has a more characterful door closing sound. Which is how pedantic it can get in the Porsche world.

[Turbo Jonny]

Just wanted to add my experience of road comfort in a 996 GT3 ( they are all great on track )

I came to it after several a/c 911s and then a 996 tt

It may seem unlikely but i find my GT3 CS with its Nomex bucket seats and minimal soundproofing
A more relaxing place than even the 996 turbo

Its a very personal thing no doubt , but it works great for me . I dont think you can find these things out
From reviews and short test drives . It took me months and a suspension refresh etc to realise that
A 996 turbo is a very compromised car for me and didnt float my boat enough .

The GT3 just gets better and is a keeper

[Fl0pp3r]

terryb said:

Only 1 place for 911 graphics - http://www.highgatehouse.co.uk

They supplied the graphics for my old 996

Cheers for the recommendation China!