What's a Sequential Box Like for Road Use ?
Discussion
Well, that's the beauty of threads like this - one learns a lot!
It is certainly the case that my R500, which is a 2012 car, has the BMW diff and the vertcally oriented bracing struts. I'ts interesting to hear that some of the later R500's had helical Quaife boxes fitted (does anyone know when this change was made?) and that some of the final cars might even have been fitted with the Sadev (straight-cut) box; again, it would be interesting to know when this spec change was implemented.
James
It is certainly the case that my R500, which is a 2012 car, has the BMW diff and the vertcally oriented bracing struts. I'ts interesting to hear that some of the later R500's had helical Quaife boxes fitted (does anyone know when this change was made?) and that some of the final cars might even have been fitted with the Sadev (straight-cut) box; again, it would be interesting to know when this spec change was implemented.
James
OP,
I asked the same question.
I got one and it's fine.
The noise from the box isn't great but the car drives fine around town.
Clutchless up-changes when you're pushing on a but make up for any low speed irritation.
I think there'll always be a strong market for these cars so if you buy and decide you can't live with it, I'm sure you won't lose a whole lot.
I asked the same question.
I got one and it's fine.
The noise from the box isn't great but the car drives fine around town.
Clutchless up-changes when you're pushing on a but make up for any low speed irritation.
I think there'll always be a strong market for these cars so if you buy and decide you can't live with it, I'm sure you won't lose a whole lot.
short-shift said:
Well, that's the beauty of threads like this - one learns a lot!
It is certainly the case that my R500, which is a 2012 car, has the BMW diff and the vertcally oriented bracing struts. I'ts interesting to hear that some of the later R500's had helical Quaife boxes fitted (does anyone know when this change was made?) and that some of the final cars might even have been fitted with the Sadev (straight-cut) box; again, it would be interesting to know when this spec change was implemented.
James
I didn't say that any Caterham was fitted with the Helical Quaife 60G, simple that is was available and is easier to live with on the road (I have one in my Sylva).It is certainly the case that my R500, which is a 2012 car, has the BMW diff and the vertcally oriented bracing struts. I'ts interesting to hear that some of the later R500's had helical Quaife boxes fitted (does anyone know when this change was made?) and that some of the final cars might even have been fitted with the Sadev (straight-cut) box; again, it would be interesting to know when this spec change was implemented.
James
In actual fact I know of two R500's that were built with the helical version of the Quaiffe 60g gearbox.
One of them was Pete Heatons car, he was building his at the same time I was building my own R500.
Pete said his car was noticeably quieter that others fitted with the straight cut box too.
Also to contradict Mics point, my 2011 R500 actually had the BMW diff and also had the diff bracing struts that went up through the boot floor.
However as a contrast Daniel Frenchs later model R500 also has the BMW diff, but no bracing.
Unfortunately for Daniel he has had some issues with his diff carrier breaking, and causing damage to his gearbox oil seals.
It does make you wonder if this had some thing to do with the lack of bracing, but I could also be our coincidence.
In the final analysis we can only conclude that there are many variables on all the models of cars that Caterham Cars produce!
One of them was Pete Heatons car, he was building his at the same time I was building my own R500.
Pete said his car was noticeably quieter that others fitted with the straight cut box too.
Also to contradict Mics point, my 2011 R500 actually had the BMW diff and also had the diff bracing struts that went up through the boot floor.
However as a contrast Daniel Frenchs later model R500 also has the BMW diff, but no bracing.
Unfortunately for Daniel he has had some issues with his diff carrier breaking, and causing damage to his gearbox oil seals.
It does make you wonder if this had some thing to do with the lack of bracing, but I could also be our coincidence.
In the final analysis we can only conclude that there are many variables on all the models of cars that Caterham Cars produce!
To return to the OP's question. 2008 R500D with Quaife box. Really noisy - any distance and wear earplugs or risk your hearing. On the open road its great; around town it's not relaxing and, as has been said, needs forward planning. Would I go for a laid back tour with my good lady in the R500? - no or very very unlikely. Would I enjoy a blast up through Glencoe to the north west? - absolutely yes.
Having had Caterhams with 6 speed boxes, but nothing like the performance, I think running the sequential box demands a bit more concentration, (could be the extra performance though).
I am really enjoying my R500D but use it differently to my first Caterham which I drove anywhere at the least excuse - over 12000 miles in its 1st year - whereas the R500D only gets used on the road when I really need an extreme adrenalin buzz.
So, not sure that I am saying anything other than that the R500D is nothing other than an extreme car and that the sequential box adds to that extremeness, (is that a word?). I wouldn't have bought an R500D without sequential box as I wanted to experience the ultimate that I could afford and am prepared to put up with the idiosyncrasies that come with this set up. If I wanted a more civilised car I would have opted for the Caterham 6 speed box (which is a fantastic box). Yes I drive the R500 in urban situations but if I lived in some of the urban areas those who are unfortunate not to have open roads 5 minutes from their house have to put up with I probably would have never considered my present car.
And yes people do look at you - not because of the car but because at low speeds the transmission clunks and jumps and can be a bit embarrassing - maybe I've not quite mastered the car yet.
Would I change it? NO! But I do intend saving up for a Geartronics set up in the future.
Hope this stream of consciousness helps.
Iain
Having had Caterhams with 6 speed boxes, but nothing like the performance, I think running the sequential box demands a bit more concentration, (could be the extra performance though).
I am really enjoying my R500D but use it differently to my first Caterham which I drove anywhere at the least excuse - over 12000 miles in its 1st year - whereas the R500D only gets used on the road when I really need an extreme adrenalin buzz.
So, not sure that I am saying anything other than that the R500D is nothing other than an extreme car and that the sequential box adds to that extremeness, (is that a word?). I wouldn't have bought an R500D without sequential box as I wanted to experience the ultimate that I could afford and am prepared to put up with the idiosyncrasies that come with this set up. If I wanted a more civilised car I would have opted for the Caterham 6 speed box (which is a fantastic box). Yes I drive the R500 in urban situations but if I lived in some of the urban areas those who are unfortunate not to have open roads 5 minutes from their house have to put up with I probably would have never considered my present car.
And yes people do look at you - not because of the car but because at low speeds the transmission clunks and jumps and can be a bit embarrassing - maybe I've not quite mastered the car yet.
Would I change it? NO! But I do intend saving up for a Geartronics set up in the future.
Hope this stream of consciousness helps.
Iain
BertBert said:
I've found driving a Caterham on the road with the quaiffe sequential to be a thoroughly unpleasant experience. It's great for those few and far between flat out up the gears times. But in my road driving they are few and far between.
Too compromised for me.
Bert
Very morose Too compromised for me.
Bert
In short if you are planning to use for the road at 80% of the time I would very much agree with Nigel. H pattern all the time.
Unless pressing on all the time the sequential is hard work. (No I am not say it isn't fun just if touring its hard work - oh and the noise!)
Yes I have driven with sequential boxes since 2005 and was also the first to fit a fully pneumatic paddleshift to a 7. Yes there are other options for Pneumatic shift than Geartronics. Some are significantly faster!
Greig is not far off the total cost but there is one system I have just supplied and its very much less than £3k! It depends what you have in the car already!
Unless pressing on all the time the sequential is hard work. (No I am not say it isn't fun just if touring its hard work - oh and the noise!)
Yes I have driven with sequential boxes since 2005 and was also the first to fit a fully pneumatic paddleshift to a 7. Yes there are other options for Pneumatic shift than Geartronics. Some are significantly faster!
Greig is not far off the total cost but there is one system I have just supplied and its very much less than £3k! It depends what you have in the car already!
It really is each to his own, I've had issues with my caterham 6 speedbox rebuilt twice due to A me being an animal, and B it was or is not happy with the torque and my abuse, in fact let go on the dyno so enough was enough, either way I fancied a stronger box with more power and torque in the pipeline, I already had the uprated prop and diff bracing as my car was one that got built originally in 97/98 with the vaux turbo engine, a wide tunnel by Arch to accommodate the M3 gearbox and the big 7.5" 909 Ford motorsport diff running 3.14 or 3.19. so just like the 620R 60 mph in 1st if you want, although it's perfectly happy at 40 in 6th and it's the overdrive 6th and shorter 1st (you have a choice with Sadev)!
I have never liked Quaife whilst never owned one I've worked on enough and suffered abysmal service compared with SWR/Sadevs service, quaife have in my experience an appalling attitude to service and backup.Just look at the quality of the gearlever!!
Simon knows his onions and is hugely respected, But the answer to the OP's questions My Sadev is a delight I live in london and it's not an issue I have Geartronics and no gear lever it's a real proper professional combination, it has never missed a shift up or down and the box is not noisy.
I have never liked Quaife whilst never owned one I've worked on enough and suffered abysmal service compared with SWR/Sadevs service, quaife have in my experience an appalling attitude to service and backup.Just look at the quality of the gearlever!!
Simon knows his onions and is hugely respected, But the answer to the OP's questions My Sadev is a delight I live in london and it's not an issue I have Geartronics and no gear lever it's a real proper professional combination, it has never missed a shift up or down and the box is not noisy.
SidewaysSi said:
Am I right in thinking the sequential is the same as a manual except the lack of H pattern, noise and ability to do flat shifts? I.e. still use the clutch on the way down the 'box and need to rev match?
Generally yes. You can get away with less heel/toe in a sequential if you do it right (i.e. wait late in the braking zone when the revs are at their lowest then bang down the box quickly to the gear you need) but you still need the clutch and its not the most mechanically sympathetic.
curley said:
I don't think my Sadev is any noisier than the 6 speed I had in my last car .
There's a faint whine in 6th on the motorway but I think on the whole it's fairly civilised , miles better than a Quaife box I tried 5 or 6 years back .
That's great to hear!There's a faint whine in 6th on the motorway but I think on the whole it's fairly civilised , miles better than a Quaife box I tried 5 or 6 years back .
The demo Caterham 620R's seem to suffer with the same noise I had on my previous R500 with the Quaife Sequential Box and the Sierra diff, particular noticeable at low speed for the usual clunk and chatter.
This video of the CC demo cars at Brands really highlights it in the first minute of video.
http://youtu.be/en4HaLQ5nyo
You will,also notice that from the 1 minute mark on as they sit at the end of the pit straight, there is significant noise from the box as he has the clutch let out as they wait.
Curley does your Sadev make this noise at tickover?
It would be great to know that the later production cars are better and don't suffer with this noise.
It's interesting though, as the noise of the box when sat in neutral with the engine running, sounds exactly like my previous R500 with the Quaife box, and the low speed drivetrain noise, which always sounds like it's coming from the diff, but is actually residual noise from both the box/prop diff also sounds no better that it was on my R500!
Edited by nigelpugh7 on Saturday 29th August 09:00
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