World Athletic Championships.
Discussion
lerate said:
Accuse a Jamaican of doping - are you serious? Their home testing is a widely acknowledged joke. Look how many of them have been busted. Look into Usain Bolts coach and his German doctor (oh but it's his long legs). The BBC all but say Gatlin is dirty but Bolt annihilates him and the rest of the dopers in the field, sadly Bolt is too big to fail and Schippers has just made herself the same. Thompson is almost certainly on PED's. They are up there with Kenya as the most suspicious nation. I have rebuffed your rational and then you make even weaker arguments, I have no axe to grind against Schippers the hypocrites at the BBC and especially Radcliffe are the ones that make me sick, they peddle the fairy tale and a large percentage of the public fall for it.
Schippers started concentrating on sprinting 3 months ago and now she is third on the list behind Flo Jo and Marion Jones. I'm sorry it's not normal.
Another question did you believe in Lance Armstrong?
This is rapidly turning into a drugs discussion rather than a world athletics champs one-but anyway.Schippers started concentrating on sprinting 3 months ago and now she is third on the list behind Flo Jo and Marion Jones. I'm sorry it's not normal.
Another question did you believe in Lance Armstrong?
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 29th August 15:25
Schipers was already a world class sprinter before concentrating on just the sprints. Her 22.03 from 2014 was faster than the British record and would have placed her close to the top 25 all time (21.99 is 23rd all time). Of course it's not 'normal'-running the 3rd fastest time ever would never be 'normal'!! But her progression doesn't ring alarm bells for me.
I've looked into usain bolt's dr and the main criticism seems to be 'quack' rather than anything else-IIRC he struggles with back problems and sportsmen and women from all disciplines go to him for treatment.
As for Glen Mills-I believe that some of his athletes (yohan blake in particular) tested positive for Methylhexanamine-which wasn't actually on the WADA banned list (but JADCO did ban him) and it seems to be dubuios as to whether it provides performance enhancing benefits-it's actually banned now by WADA but the reason listed on wikipedia is that it is dangerous to use and it doesn't exactly look like the kind of thing an athlete would put in their body to gain an advantage.
To me there's a difference between taking a banned substance and doping. The Jamaicans so far seem to have been done for (IMO) taking banned substances-stimulants etc that are often in commonly found products and can easily be taken accidentally.
Gatlin doped-he took steroids which there is pretty much no reasonable explanation for and received his ban-now at the age of 33 (old for a sprinter) he is running better than ever-and better than he was when we was proven to be on steroids. As far as I can see there are 4 explanations for his times:
1) He's a genuine late bloomer athlete and the times are clean and untainted
2) He's still getting the positive effects from the steroids he took earlier
3) He spent his 4 year ban doped up to his eyeballs (I don't think he would have been tested for the majority of the ban) and getting clean in time for the end of the ban
4) He's still doping
I struggle to believe in 1, hope that it's 2, 3 is a grey area as I don't think it'd actually be against the rules but is definitely dodgy and 4 is the worst case.
Because 3/4 scenarios relate to an advantage by drugs-that's why everyone seems to hate him.
Armstrong is a bit of a tricky one-I was 9-15 in the years he 'won' his tour de frances but towards the end-no I didn't believe in him-he used to blow away proven (note: proven) dopers while supposedly being clean-and unlike bolt there seemed to be nothing physically different about him to explain how he could do it.
cookie118 said:
stephen300o said:
Drug talk is boring.
I jsuyt hate it when some people seem to think athletics is dirty based on people running fast.Sure every sport has folks who want to win at any cost, breaking rules, but it should not be the only talking point.
The best way to work out if a power athlete (sprinter/jumper/thrower) is pharmaceutically enhanced is easy - are they in contention for a medal? if they are then they are taking something, it really is as simple as that these days.
The athletes are even messed up in the head, they hear of someone taking something in excess of what they take and they readily accuse the other guy of 'cheating
Lets get this straight you can enhance your natural level of hormones and not get caught - you only get caught if your coach messed up with the timing or dosage and your ratios are found to be wrong. Hyper-responders like Bolt can perform optimally on only one 'cookie' per day while others (Gatlin?) might need two or three to be competitive and then risk falling foul of the limits.
Bolt has a big advantage over Gatlin as well - he can do most of his hard training yards in Jamaica free of proper drug testing. And if Bolt did fall fail of drug testing in his home country? there is evidence that any crumbs from his cookies would be swept under the carpet before anyone else saw them. Too big to fail? never has that phrase been so apt.
Sport is spoiled if you dwell too much on the drugs thing. All sport is riddled with it - Boxing/Rugby/Football - all of it. The temptation to take is just too great. Take the red pill and you could be a multi-millionaire, adored and feted throughout the world. Don't take it and few will remember you in a few years time while you try and forge a second career to make ends meet.
The athletes are even messed up in the head, they hear of someone taking something in excess of what they take and they readily accuse the other guy of 'cheating
Lets get this straight you can enhance your natural level of hormones and not get caught - you only get caught if your coach messed up with the timing or dosage and your ratios are found to be wrong. Hyper-responders like Bolt can perform optimally on only one 'cookie' per day while others (Gatlin?) might need two or three to be competitive and then risk falling foul of the limits.
Bolt has a big advantage over Gatlin as well - he can do most of his hard training yards in Jamaica free of proper drug testing. And if Bolt did fall fail of drug testing in his home country? there is evidence that any crumbs from his cookies would be swept under the carpet before anyone else saw them. Too big to fail? never has that phrase been so apt.
Sport is spoiled if you dwell too much on the drugs thing. All sport is riddled with it - Boxing/Rugby/Football - all of it. The temptation to take is just too great. Take the red pill and you could be a multi-millionaire, adored and feted throughout the world. Don't take it and few will remember you in a few years time while you try and forge a second career to make ends meet.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's a valid reason to believe it's dirty-the pure fact someone ran fast isn't.272BHP said:
The best way to work out if a power athlete (sprinter/jumper/thrower) is pharmaceutically enhanced is easy - are they in contention for a medal? if they are then they are taking something, it really is as simple as that these days.
And what do you base this on?cookie118 said:
And what do you base this on?
Talking to people who know about this sort of thing - and having a willingness to look beyond the end of my nose. In truth the evidence is all over the net as well if you know where to look and that evidence is strong and backed up by damning facts and statistics. But you don't need to look at all the reams of information you only have to look at one statistic. 9.58.
johnxjsc1985 said:
cookie118 said:
And what do you base this on?
the little voices in his head nothing else. If people think they are all cheats why watch it.Someone linked to this the other day, quite interesting, I think certainly its about time athletics felt the heat that other sports do about doping
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=...
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=...
johnxjsc1985 said:
the little voices in his head nothing else. If people think they are all cheats why watch it.
I watch boxing, rugby and football as well. do you think Tyson, Bruno, Hoyfield et al were drug free? Do you think that the 15% difference in bodyweight of current rugby players from 30yrs ago is due to protein shakes and press ups? Lionel Messi was pharmaceutically engineered from a youngster by the Barcelona doctors to create a player big enough to compete physically in the modern game (4inches taller than either of his parents)
None of it spoils it for me, there will always be people who try to gain an edge by bending the rules - welcome to life, it's full of b*stards.
272BHP said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
the little voices in his head nothing else. If people think they are all cheats why watch it.
I watch boxing, rugby and football as well. do you think Tyson, Bruno, Hoyfield et al were drug free? Do you think that the 15% difference in bodyweight of current rugby players from 30yrs ago is due to protein shakes and press ups? Lionel Messi was pharmaceutically engineered from a youngster by the Barcelona doctors to create a player big enough to compete physically in the modern game (4inches taller than either of his parents)
None of it spoils it for me, there will always be people who try to gain an edge by bending the rules - welcome to life, it's full of b*stards.
Bolt's 9.58 isn't as bad as this imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrt9yZL8dbI
Great bit of commentary, "no one can run that fast"
Correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrt9yZL8dbI
Great bit of commentary, "no one can run that fast"
Correct.
Just a couple of observations from today's action - BBC pundits going into full hyperbole mode after Farah's win, Brendan Foster claiming him to be the best sportsman in the history of the universe and gushing comments from Michael Johnson about the good trainer Alberto Salazar. Deary me. Also Kenya dominating the medals table - I guess they're the Astana/US Postal of the running world, corruption rife through their governing bodies - lax drug testing regimes and bribes taken for the ones that do trip the wire, that sort of thing. Oh, and not a word from Steve Cram about Asafa Powell's inclusion in Jamaica's gold medal winning relay team.
ocrx8 said:
Richard Kilty really let himself down today. Terrible form going to the media and indirectly pointing the blame at his teammates. Go in as a team, win/lose as a team.
Kilty's has form for making a fool of himself, his behaviour on Twitter earlier this year was reprehensible 272BHP said:
Lionel Messi was pharmaceutically engineered from a youngster by the Barcelona doctors to create a player big enough to compete physically in the modern game
That may or may not be true, I have no idea.272BHP said:
(4inches taller than either of his parents)
What's that got to do with the price of cheese? I'm 4" taller than my parents and didn't have any genetic engineering. My brother in law is at least 4" taller than his parents, his son is a couple of inches taller than him/ 6" taller than my sister, all by natural causes. john2443 said:
272BHP said:
Lionel Messi was pharmaceutically engineered from a youngster by the Barcelona doctors to create a player big enough to compete physically in the modern game
That may or may not be true, I have no idea.272BHP said:
(4inches taller than either of his parents)
What's that got to do with the price of cheese? I'm 4" taller than my parents and didn't have any genetic engineering. My brother in law is at least 4" taller than his parents, his son is a couple of inches taller than him/ 6" taller than my sister, all by natural causes. Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff