Worth paying the extra insurance....
Discussion
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
There should be a law against it!Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Oh, wait a sec... There is.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
The law said:
(4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.
No, doesn't sound like he did that to me, either.Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
And you don't think the police are able to check whether he has this "any driver insurance"? Hint - they can and will check it. Tell me when you find a policy like this, it'll be very, very rare and unbelievably expensive. Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Cops - "No problem, just before I do I'll give you this ticket for failing to identify the driver as required by section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. It carries 6 points and a £200 penalty"
Mr X - "Ahh, but..."
Cops - "It's OK I'll get the the door".
I've added the final part of the conversation for you. Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Cops - "No problem, just before I do I'll give you this ticket for failing to identify the driver as required by section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. It carries 6 points and a £200 penalty"
Mr X - "Ahh, but..."
Cops - "It's OK I'll get the the door".
Cat
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Pop the video on YouTube for us all to see as well. Just set up an account called upatdawn to protect your privacy if you're worried about that. Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Did this conversation take place in your head?Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Mr X would need to attend court and persuade the magistrate that he could not identify the driver with due-diligence.
Mr X would need to show proof that he has contacted all employees, looked up driver records, shift patterns etc. A lot of work will be involved to prove that you honestly cannot name the driver and it will be unlikely the magistrate will side with Mr X.
Mr X would need to show proof that he has contacted all employees, looked up driver records, shift patterns etc. A lot of work will be involved to prove that you honestly cannot name the driver and it will be unlikely the magistrate will side with Mr X.
Mr X would be doing well if the driving offence was a serious one. Purely anecdotal as I don't have a car capable of it - but if I was caught doing well over a hundred I'd take the 6 points happily. If I was caught doing something really naughty by camera I'd happily take the 6 points. I'm sure it happens.
photosnob said:
Mr X would be doing well if the driving offence was a serious one. Purely anecdotal as I don't have a car capable of it - but if I was caught doing well over a hundred I'd take the 6 points happily. If I was caught doing something really naughty by camera I'd happily take the 6 points. I'm sure it happens.
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
ZOLLAR said:
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).
Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
I drive relatively sensibly. Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
However I think if I was caught doing something very very silly my last worry would be a hike in insurance premiums.
Edited by photosnob on Monday 24th August 14:03
The copper came last night to return my SD card with the video file on it
what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....
game over
they had checked the insurance
its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).
i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..
what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....
game over
they had checked the insurance
its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).
i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..
AGT confirmed this when I asked the question,
if the company doesn't identify the driver and the vehicle is company owned then the company will get a fine of probably £600, nobody gets any points, nobody gets increased insurance premiums. It is legally possible but unlikely that the Co Sec will get the points
So all you powerfully built driving God Co Directors on 9 points currently, keep quiet, let the company take the fine and the points go into the ether
An offshelfco to own the vehicle isn't an expensive excercise compared to bans, points, insurance hikes; a roadside stop would be a problem but any speed camera or similar not a problem.
Below is my original question,
Tuesday 11th August
I'm told that if your vehicle is registered to a company and you get a "who was driving at xxx time/date" letter and you fail to respond or just say you cannot be sure; that the company secretary will be awarded points/fine.
If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
Below AGT Law's answer
The company is prosecuted. Maximum fine is £1000 and usually around £500-£600 - allowing some credit for a guilty plea.
The company secretary could be prosecuted, but I've never seen it happen.
if the company doesn't identify the driver and the vehicle is company owned then the company will get a fine of probably £600, nobody gets any points, nobody gets increased insurance premiums. It is legally possible but unlikely that the Co Sec will get the points
So all you powerfully built driving God Co Directors on 9 points currently, keep quiet, let the company take the fine and the points go into the ether
An offshelfco to own the vehicle isn't an expensive excercise compared to bans, points, insurance hikes; a roadside stop would be a problem but any speed camera or similar not a problem.
Below is my original question,
Tuesday 11th August
I'm told that if your vehicle is registered to a company and you get a "who was driving at xxx time/date" letter and you fail to respond or just say you cannot be sure; that the company secretary will be awarded points/fine.
If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
Below AGT Law's answer
The company is prosecuted. Maximum fine is £1000 and usually around £500-£600 - allowing some credit for a guilty plea.
The company secretary could be prosecuted, but I've never seen it happen.
LoonR1 said:
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
And you don't think the police are able to check whether he has this "any driver insurance"? Hint - they can and will check it. Tell me when you find a policy like this, it'll be very, very rare and unbelievably expensive. Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
photosnob said:
ZOLLAR said:
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).
Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
I drive relatively sensibly. Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
However I think if I was caught doing something very very silly my last worry would be a hike in insurance premiums.
Edited by photosnob on Monday 24th August 14:03
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..
Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
One fatal flaw in this fantasy Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?
Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"
Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"
Cops - "no"
Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
how did the driver get a visit from the cops if they were not able to identify him
Upatdawn said:
The copper came last night to return my SD card with the video file on it
what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....
game over
they had checked the insurance
its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).
i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..
I'd like to think that if the police now know that this vehicle is regularly driven in this manner along the same route at around the same time they might keep an eye out for it .what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....
game over
they had checked the insurance
its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).
i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff