Does Pirelli think we are all stupid?

Does Pirelli think we are all stupid?

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Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
Ahonen said:
This is a significant point. Watching onboard footage from the WEC shows that they simply couldn't use the kerbs at the top of Raidillon to the same extent as some of the F1 cars were.
Do you think on balance then the trigger was the punishment from the kerbs?

be interesting to consider the weights of the cars at the time, as I would expect this to be more problematic earlier on in the race when the cars are still very fat on fuel.

Do we know what the fuel load was like when Rosberg's failed or are we assuming that was cut from debris?


Puddenchucker

4,037 posts

217 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
An "exceptional number of cuts" found in tyres used in Belgium

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120596

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
Pirelli investigate their own tyre and find an external factor to be the blame, what a surprise. rolleyes

Funny how we didn't see tyres letting go regularly 10 years ago.

Apparently there was 30% tread life left on Vettel's tyre.... that seems more than acceptable to me? So I also wonder if the critics will acknowledge that it wasn't Ferrari taking the piss with the strategy that caused this failure.

rdjohn

6,135 posts

194 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=klBs-i-8O50

If you look around 5min 30sec you will see the kerbs are being used and the orange lozenge kerbs were not there.

Nico was on lap 14 of his long run following qually simulation, so on Option rather Prime like Seb.

BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
VolvoT5 said:
Pirelli investigate their own tyre and find an external factor to be the blame, what a surprise. rolleyes

Funny how we didn't see tyres letting go regularly 10 years ago.

Apparently there was 30% tread life left on Vettel's tyre.... that seems more than acceptable to me? So I also wonder if the critics will acknowledge that it wasn't Ferrari taking the piss with the strategy that caused this failure.
Well said.
So if we take it at face value from Pirelli then 2 cars have punctures from kerbs or debris. Not aware of any debris so must be the kerbs then.
So 2 cars rode over the kerbs and suffered cuts to the tyre.

Couple of questions;
What happened to all the other cars that used the kerbs? Why did they not have punctures?
Why did the tread fall off Rosberg's car if it suffered a cut(s), with the 'middle bit' still inflated initially?
Same, to a lesser extent with Vettel's.

I'm confused.
Bet Paul Hembery gets a warm welcome from the Ferrari team and fans at Monza!


MartG

20,623 posts

203 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
BlimeyCharlie said:
VolvoT5 said:
Pirelli investigate their own tyre and find an external factor to be the blame, what a surprise. rolleyes

Funny how we didn't see tyres letting go regularly 10 years ago.

Apparently there was 30% tread life left on Vettel's tyre.... that seems more than acceptable to me? So I also wonder if the critics will acknowledge that it wasn't Ferrari taking the piss with the strategy that caused this failure.
Well said.
So if we take it at face value from Pirelli then 2 cars have punctures from kerbs or debris. Not aware of any debris so must be the kerbs then.
So 2 cars rode over the kerbs and suffered cuts to the tyre.

Couple of questions;
What happened to all the other cars that used the kerbs? Why did they not have punctures?
Why did the tread fall off Rosberg's car if it suffered a cut(s), with the 'middle bit' still inflated initially?
Same, to a lesser extent with Vettel's.

I'm confused.
Bet Paul Hembery gets a warm welcome from the Ferrari team and fans at Monza!
Did you read the article at all, or just the headline ?

They found 62 cuts on tyres used during the weekend at Spa, compared to an average of 1.2 at previous venues. Fortunately all but two did not result in the tyre failing

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
quotequote all
MartG said:
Did you read the article at all, or just the headline ?

They found 62 cuts on tyres used during the weekend at Spa, compared to an average of 1.2 at previous venues. Fortunately all but two did not result in the tyre failing
Problem is, it begs the question, if it was so bad, why did they not make more noise before Sunday?

(This assumes you believe them)

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
MartG said:
Did you read the article at all, or just the headline ?

They found 62 cuts on tyres used during the weekend at Spa, compared to an average of 1.2 at previous venues. Fortunately all but two did not result in the tyre failing
Problem is, it begs the question, if it was so bad, why did they not make more noise before Sunday?

(This assumes you believe them)
I'm guessing you missed the part of that article where it mentioned that Pirelli asked for the circuit to be cleaned after qualifying because of the number of cuts they'd found?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
So why do they think increasing the running pressure by 5psi will stop the tyres being cut?


BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

901 posts

141 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
MartG said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
VolvoT5 said:
Pirelli investigate their own tyre and find an external factor to be the blame, what a surprise. rolleyes

Funny how we didn't see tyres letting go regularly 10 years ago.

Apparently there was 30% tread life left on Vettel's tyre.... that seems more than acceptable to me? So I also wonder if the critics will acknowledge that it wasn't Ferrari taking the piss with the strategy that caused this failure.
Well said.
So if we take it at face value from Pirelli then 2 cars have punctures from kerbs or debris. Not aware of any debris so must be the kerbs then.
So 2 cars rode over the kerbs and suffered cuts to the tyre.

Couple of questions;
What happened to all the other cars that used the kerbs? Why did they not have punctures?
Why did the tread fall off Rosberg's car if it suffered a cut(s), with the 'middle bit' still inflated initially?
Same, to a lesser extent with Vettel's.

I'm confused.
Bet Paul Hembery gets a warm welcome from the Ferrari team and fans at Monza!
Did you read the article at all, or just the headline ?

They found 62 cuts on tyres used during the weekend at Spa, compared to an average of 1.2 at previous venues. Fortunately all but two did not result in the tyre failing
I can read. Can you though?
Of course you can, but reading something and just accepting whatever you've read without even questioning anything is the easy bit.

Do you also believe Senna forgot how to drive around a corner and died as a result? Do you believe that the 'black box' from his car was so badly damaged that the data could not be accessed? Do you believe that the on-board footage was not captured fully?

I also note Vettel has composed himself at Monza and gone all positive PR (publicly at least) about Pirelli.
It has often been reported that Vettel enjoys a good relationship with Bernie. Maybe one has encouraged the other to be a bit more polite and positive for the 'good of the sport', as it would now reflect badly on the FIA if Vettel remained critical of Pirelli as the FIA say they are also happy with Pirelli's conclusions.

Or you could just repeat what Pirelli say and not question anything you see with your own eyes.
The Pirelli 'findings' are not a surprise are they? They are not really going to conclude that 'our product just fell to bits' are they, even if it did, but it didn't though, did it? No, it didn't, it was full of cuts and the tyre failed because of that, because Pirelli said so.


MartG

20,623 posts

203 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all


BlimeyCharlie said:
I can read. Can you though?
Of course you can, but reading something and just accepting whatever you've read without even questioning anything is the easy bit.

Do you also believe Senna forgot how to drive around a corner and died as a result? Do you believe that the 'black box' from his car was so badly damaged that the data could not be accessed? Do you believe that the on-board footage was not captured fully?

I also note Vettel has composed himself at Monza and gone all positive PR (publicly at least) about Pirelli.
It has often been reported that Vettel enjoys a good relationship with Bernie. Maybe one has encouraged the other to be a bit more polite and positive for the 'good of the sport', as it would now reflect badly on the FIA if Vettel remained critical of Pirelli as the FIA say they are also happy with Pirelli's conclusions.

Or you could just repeat what Pirelli say and not question anything you see with your own eyes.
The Pirelli 'findings' are not a surprise are they? They are not really going to conclude that 'our product just fell to bits' are they, even if it did, but it didn't though, did it? No, it didn't, it was full of cuts and the tyre failed because of that, because Pirelli said so.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
Ah. Thank you Charlie for revealing your point. You don't actually care you just want a rant about the tyres.

Here is the things though: if you are going down a route of blah blah blah you make a post like yours, subjective, no substance or facts to dispute, just waffle. Pirelli named their evidence and the outcome of their investigation thereby providing everybody with facts to look at/dispute. That's a dumb idea if you are just going to lie!

Pirelli are in a sucky contract of which there is no upside. Quite what the hell they are doing I have no idea but right now I imagine Bridgestone, Firenza, Conti et al are all laughing their tits off. Michelin must need their heads examining to go anywhere near this contract - it's like being an engine supplier to Red Bull!

Tyres should not explode I agree. Managing depredation of tyres within a performance parameter that has many major variables is I presume bloody tricky. Throwing cutting up curbs into that equation is I presume an utterly thankless task that reduces the engineering calculations to utter guesswork.

And the day I believe a driver that says he didn't go off the circuit/make heavy use of the curbs is the day I take up golf!
It's a pissant situation all round.

mycool

265 posts

201 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
Isn't it equally feasible that the debris that caused the cuts was crap collecting in the ridges of the curbs. Having seen them sweep circuits they concentrate on the black bit and as far as I am aware don't run the road sweeper machines over the curbs.

Any shards of carbon or metal could easily sit in the curbs and only be an issue when a car disturbs them and or goes far over the curbs. The curbs themselves are supposed to be designed not to cut tyres.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
So why do they think increasing the running pressure by 5psi will stop the tyres being cut?
Good question.

RGambo

847 posts

168 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
[quote=DJRC]



- it's like being an engine supplier to Red Bull!



quote]

wobblerofl

entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
So why do they think increasing the running pressure by 5psi will stop the tyres being cut?
In V8Supercars Dunlop mandated higher tyre pressures to stop tyre blow outs.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
entropy said:
In V8Supercars Dunlop mandated higher tyre pressures to stop tyre blow outs.
Different problem

That was to stop the sidewalls being over stressed.

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
Interesting discussion on tyre pressures and Vettel's failure over on F1 technical - http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6... .

Seems to suggest that running low pressures increase the risk of sidewall separation, leading to structural failure.

There's also an interesting comment that some of the tyre warmers are extremely hot, hence the 'starting' tyre pressure may be several PSI higher than the 'cold' pressure. The lower limit set by Pirelli/FIA is measured when the tyres are in the warmers....

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
The Formula One Group said:
“Competitors should heed Pirelli’s expert advice when setting their race strategy and tactics, and if they do not, it is at their own risk. We are entirely satisfied that Pirelli was not at fault for any tyre-related incidents during the 2015 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix.”

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Friday 4th September 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The Formula One Group said:
“Competitors should heed Pirelli’s expert advice when setting their race strategy and tactics, and if they do not, it is at their own risk. We are entirely satisfied that Pirelli was not at fault for any tyre-related incidents during the 2015 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix.”
what a load of old cobblers!

Watching coverage today, the new (silly) higher pressures they mandated have now been reduced again back within 1Psi of what they were before....

much guessing going on me thinks!