Self posting video gets him Nine months inside

[bass gt3]

ORD said:

Not sure 'vindictive' is entirely fair. I'm not terribly compassionate sometimes, I suppose

In reality, if I were the Judge, I would probably have been utterly appalled by the riding but would have (as someone has said) tried to educate at least as much as punish.

I am probably just sounding off a bit after having been shocked by the riding. To be honest, I am far more sensitive about dangerous road driving and riding since I started having my baby son in the car with me. It's a real eye opener to think a bit more about how easily things can go wrong if people take risks.

Totally understand. I'm in no way defending his antics but if no one was injured, is a custodial sentence best benefit ALL parties? That includes society BTW
If there's an alternative way to treat this where society is served rather than pays, the offender actually learns the real cost of such actions and he has a chance to put himself back on track, isn't that a better solution?
A custodial will hang over him for always, impair his prospects and possibly steer him down the wrong path.
Why not a 3 year suspended sentence? (just an example)Something that serves as a "Sword of Damocles" should he try this st again. If he does, damn right, throw the book at him. But shouldn't we all get 1 chance.........?

[Stickyfinger]

crashley said:

Are you suggesting speed caused this accident? I'd advocate it was a contributing factor but ultimately came down to the car driver not looking down the road.

Speed in itself isn't dangerous. Why can't people get their heads around that?

Not on a race track ? maybe ?

We are talking about roads here remember and the speed differences are a factor, thus speed is a factor.

What would you say to the drivers family, come on, someone has to talk to them, lets say your the copper knocking on the door shall we.....

bad luck they should not of pulled out because 300kg of metal was at such a speed (40mph over) it could not have a chance of stopping or a good chance of not being seen/speed judged ?....

Or are you saying that 97mph in a 60mph zone with turnings/traffic is OK ? and not the primary cause of the death even if it could of been avoided at 60mph as control could of been maintained at that speed ?

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 14:23

[crashley]

Stickyfinger said:

What would you say to the drivers family, come on, someone has to talk to them, lets say your the copper knocking on the door shall we.....

bad luck they should not of pulled out because 300kg of metal was at such a speed (40mph over) it could not have a chance of stopping or a good chance of not being seen/speed judged ?....

There were a bunch of mitigating circumstances in this rather sad accident. The rider was going too fast for the conditions (across a junction), but car driver wasn't paying enough attention down the road. It was no doubt very hard on both parties involved. What's your point? You can't just look at the rider in isolation and entirely apportion blame on him, based simply on speed.

[ORD]

crashley said:

There were a bunch of mitigating circumstances in this rather sad accident. The rider was going too fast for the conditions (across a junction), but car driver wasn't paying enough attention down the road. It was no doubt very hard on both parties involved. What's your point? You can't just look at the rider in isolation and entirely apportion blame on him, based simply on speed.

Negligent driving from the car driver (but hardly the worst error ever). Negligent riding from the biker - not hugely reckless but too high a speed to be approaching that junction.

I find it hard to watch that video and not feel more for the dead biker than the driver, notwithstanding that the driver was of course distressed.

[Stickyfinger]

crashley said:

There were a bunch of mitigating circumstances in this rather sad accident. The rider was going too fast for the conditions (across a junction), but car driver wasn't paying enough attention down the road. It was no doubt very hard on both parties involved. What's your point? You can't just look at the rider in isolation and entirely apportion blame on him, based simply on speed.

Really, 97mph on a 60mph A road ?.....insane levels of delusion about the cause and effect of speed.

Reasonable expectations of speed and vision are to be ignored are they ?

You are not, nor am I able to judge time/speed/distance traveled by a bike doing those speeds even if you remove all the other factors effecting vision/lighting/road surface/weather/driver capability etc.....so yes, the speed was the primary cause of the impact and the damage to life caused.

(I am talking about all drivers by the way, not just bikes.) It is however even harder to judge a small object with a single point of light, the primary focus point, as its main identifier.
At that speed the two seconds (if that) the driver had to make those estimates is totally insufficient.

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 14:55

[RemyMartin]

Question to stickyfinger, has anyone in your family been killed in a rta where speed was a mitigating factor. I only ask as you seem quite passionate through your use of hyperbole to describe the actions. Again i'm sitting on the fence with this one.

[0000]

Stickyfinger said:

Really, 97mph on a 60mph A road ?.....insane levels of delusion about the cause and effect of speed.

Do tell us more about the cause of speed.

[ORD]

0000 said:

Do tell us more about the cause of speed.

Torque at the wheels. Or, equally, POWERRRRRR.

[Stickyfinger]

RemyMartin said:

Question to stickyfinger, has anyone in your family been killed in a rta where speed was a mitigating factor. I only ask as you seem quite passionate through your use of hyperbole to describe the actions. Again i'm sitting on the fence with this one.

No, but they are quadriplegic.

From a serving fast jet pilot to a wheel chair. Doing 110mph and ended up in the back of a Transit van (thru the windscreen killing the driver on the way) just outside Spalding.

He has to live with that and the death of the driver, the drivers family/kids, as do his wife, his child and family.
he has caused massive grief to many, cost all of us 100's of thousands etc etc.

I am not and never have been one to complain to much about speed limits as I think they are just about well balanced and allow safe (as pos) travel and are perfect for fun/enjoyment.

As an ex biker (guess why) I do think he was very very stupid with the resultant fall out for the 100's of people concerned. You cannot make a law for stupid, but you can reduce the effect of stupid given the chance.
9 months will I am sure save this guy life and the effect the loss of it would have on those 100's effected.


It is unknown who was at fault (?) technically but his speedo was stuck at 110mph.

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 15:22

[Stickyfinger]

0000 said:

Do tell us more about the cause of speed.

Towards a stationary object ?, about 140 feet per second on a moving object less than 3 feed wide and 5 feet tall with a mixed light/dark/colour background whilst surrounded by other objects moving in multiple directions and speed..

It is a VERY small object to judge speed/distance/time and there are very few who can make that call accurately,

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 15:36

[ORD]

Hard to argue with the point that the douche is unlikely to ride like that again after serving prison time. He would go down for a long time if he did it again:

[moanthebairns]

Stickyfinger said:

0000 said:

Do tell us more about the cause of speed.

Towards a stationary object ?, about 140 feet per second on a moving object less than 3 feed wide and 5 feet tall with a mixed light/dark/colour background whilst surrounded by other objects moving in multiple directions and speed..

It is a VERY small object to judge speed/distance/time and there are very few who can make that call accurately.

Funny. I can see plenty of Marshals or even the photographer at a track day doing though speeds whilst setting up for a next bend. Have you ever driven or riden at these speeds.

[BobSaunders]

We all should just stay at home.

[Stickyfinger]

moanthebairns said:

Funny. I can see plenty of Marshals or even the photographer at a track day doing though speeds whilst setting up for a next bend. Have you ever driven or riden at these speeds.

Without answering that (no need) I have seen plenty in various walls and tyres on race tracks because they misjudged them/missed the apex by miles.

Do you wish to place your and others health into the hope that you are approaching an "expert" like yourself ?....not me mate and your example is so flawed anyway.

[Esceptico]

Without wanting to support Mr Shouty I do have some sympathy for some of his arguments.

Inappropriate speed is a key or determining factor in probably the majority of accidents. Just think of all the people that have misjudged corner speed and gone off the road or crossed the road into traffic. Or dangerous overtaking (involved going faster than the traffic you are trying to get past). Or a big contributing factor to SMIDSY. If you are riding towards a junction then you have to take into account the possibility that someone will pull out into your path or turn across your path. The faster you are travelling the less chance you give other road users to see you, react correctly (they can easily misjudge your approach speed), you severely limit your escape options the faster you get and any impact will be much harder. For all those reasons speeding past junctions is plain stupid - especially on most motorbikes where any speed lost by slowing down can be regained quickly with the throttle.

Knowing when it is relatively safe to go fast and when not (and adjusting your speed accordingly) is a key skill in trying to avoid accidents.

[Mad Jock]

Esceptico said:

Without wanting to support Mr Shouty I do have some sympathy for some of his arguments.

Inappropriate speed is a key or determining factor in probably the majority of accidents. Just think of all the people that have misjudged corner speed and gone off the road or crossed the road into traffic. Or dangerous overtaking (involved going faster than the traffic you are trying to get past). Or a big contributing factor to SMIDSY. If you are riding towards a junction then you have to take into account the possibility that someone will pull out into your path or turn across your path. The faster you are travelling the less chance you give other road users to see you, react correctly (they can easily misjudge your approach speed), you severely limit your escape options the faster you get and any impact will be much harder. For all those reasons speeding past junctions is plain stupid - especially on most motorbikes where any speed lost by slowing down can be regained quickly with the throttle.

Knowing when it is relatively safe to go fast and when not (and adjusting your speed accordingly) is a key skill in trying to avoid accidents.

I think you'll find that inappropriate speed is not a key or determining factor in a majority of accidents. According to the DfT tables for 2013, Inappropriate Speed (Travelling too fast for conditions)accounts for 5% of all accidents involving a motorcycle, and Exceeding the speed limit is another 5%. They are 9th and 10th in the list of causes of motorcycle accidents, in other words, there are another 8 more causes with a higher percentage.

Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.

[moanthebairns]

Stickyfinger said:

moanthebairns said:

Funny. I can see plenty of Marshals or even the photographer at a track day doing though speeds whilst setting up for a next bend. Have you ever driven or riden at these speeds.

Without answering that (no need) I have seen plenty in various walls and tyres on race tracks because they misjudged them/missed the apex by miles.

Do you wish to place your and others health into the hope that you are approaching an "expert" like yourself ?....not me mate and your example is so flawed anyway.

So you haven't.

I'm struggling to take anything you say on board as quite frankly you appear to be, well a little slow.

[Esceptico]

Mad Jock said:

I think you'll find that inappropriate speed is not a key or determining factor in a majority of accidents. According to the DfT tables for 2013, Inappropriate Speed (Travelling too fast for conditions)accounts for 5% of all accidents involving a motorcycle, and Exceeding the speed limit is another 5%. They are 9th and 10th in the list of causes of motorcycle accidents, in other words, there are another 8 more causes with a higher percentage.

Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.

I am having trouble looking up data on my phone.

Can you list the top ten (would be helpful if you could also include definitions).

[Stickyfinger]

moanthebairns said:

So you haven't.

I'm struggling to take anything you say on board as quite frankly you appear to be, well a little slow.

Oh FFS ...yes I have (not Bikes on a track) but what the hell have my skill levels got to do with anything here unless to allow you to claim some spurious "expertise" in something or other ?

I fail to see the relevance of a track day/race with a number of similar objects traveling at similar speeds with all drivers fully concentrated and mostly trusting of each others skill levels/capability to those of an A road with multiple objects traveling in differing directions/speeds/hedges/cars/trucks/road surfaces and the massive (in this case 100mph) speed differentials together with the differing levels of attention and driver/rider capability.

Your analogy is totally worthless and is not valid in any way as we are discussing (now) the dangers of speed differentials which on a track are relatively small.

Top 5

Bends on Rural Roads
Collisions at Junctions
Filtering
Overtaking
Loss of control

You choose why

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 17:37

[moanthebairns]

Stickyfinger said:

moanthebairns said:

So you haven't.

I'm struggling to take anything you say on board as quite frankly you appear to be, well a little slow.

Oh FFS ...yes I have (not Bikes on a track) but what the hell have my skill levels got to do with anything here unless to allow you to claim some spurious "expertise" in something or other ?

I fail to see the relevance of a track day/race with a number of similar objects traveling at similar speeds with all drivers fully concentrated and mostly trusting of each others skill levels/capability to those of an A road with multiple objects traveling in differing directions/speeds/hedges/cars/trucks/road surfaces and the massive (in this case 100mph) speed differentials together with the differing levels of attention and driver/rider capability.

Your analogy is totally worthless and is not valid in any way as we are discussing (now) the dangers of speed differentials which on a track are relatively small.

Top 5

Bends on Rural Roads
Collisions at Junctions
Filtering
Overtaking
Loss of control

You choose why

Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 28th August 17:37

When I said slow I meant thick.