Unpaid leave rejected
Discussion
An employee of ten years service wished to take 3.5 days of unpaid after using the majority of their holiday in February to take a 2 week break in September.
Said employee is going to china on Business for 3 weeks for no additional re numeration in October giving up their weekends for this trip.
Employee has had this request rejected due to the company manual stating this is not special circumstances.
What would be your views on this?
Said employee is going to china on Business for 3 weeks for no additional re numeration in October giving up their weekends for this trip.
Employee has had this request rejected due to the company manual stating this is not special circumstances.
What would be your views on this?
Sounds unreasonable though might be better to claim back the weekends lost traveling and get more holiday entitlement rather than asking for unpaid leave. Most firms would give at least a day back if they were expecting their staff to travel over a weekend unpaid. If it was me and it was being blocked I'd get my China flights changed to fly on the Monday and come back on the Friday as I already had plans for the weekend and see if they would come to a compromise.
Company Manual? Is such a thing normal practice?
I would think if they had asked at the time the trip to China was booked they would've got the days off but it seems they threw away their bargaining chip. Not that it should work like that!
Assuming the persons salary and job role doesn't normally incorporate travel, it would seem fairer for the company to take a view on it. If the persons job role does incorporate travel then they're really just asking for more days off because they've been there a long time.
I would think if they had asked at the time the trip to China was booked they would've got the days off but it seems they threw away their bargaining chip. Not that it should work like that!
Assuming the persons salary and job role doesn't normally incorporate travel, it would seem fairer for the company to take a view on it. If the persons job role does incorporate travel then they're really just asking for more days off because they've been there a long time.
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Tuesday 25th August 11:20
Nice gentle way would be to enquire about Time Off in Lieu of his weekends on the China trip - that should give him enough to take the days off without being silly.
If still no joy, point out that life is about compromise, so perhaps if they cant see their way clear to being flexible, he could be less flexible as well. And then look for another job. There's not a lot on his side, without openly threatening them about the China thing.
If still no joy, point out that life is about compromise, so perhaps if they cant see their way clear to being flexible, he could be less flexible as well. And then look for another job. There's not a lot on his side, without openly threatening them about the China thing.
Employee is an assistant manager.
I'm aware that their is no "god given right" to unpaid leave but from a motivational aspect seems pretty poor.
International travel is not part of the normal role.
Employee has decided to only take the single week now to avoid any confrontation. As above life is about compromise and flexibility. I think certain people like to exercise their rights just because they can.
I'm aware that their is no "god given right" to unpaid leave but from a motivational aspect seems pretty poor.
International travel is not part of the normal role.
Employee has decided to only take the single week now to avoid any confrontation. As above life is about compromise and flexibility. I think certain people like to exercise their rights just because they can.
sc0tt said:
Employee is an assistant manager.
I'm aware that their is no "god given right" to unpaid leave but from a motivational aspect seems pretty poor.
International travel is not part of the normal role.
Employee has decided to only take the single week now to avoid any confrontation. As above life is about compromise and flexibility. I think certain people like to exercise their rights just because they can.
In that case the company not offering the employee at least a boost in salary for the time away is taking the pi$$. Let alone time in lieu for the evenings and weekends spent away. I'm aware that their is no "god given right" to unpaid leave but from a motivational aspect seems pretty poor.
International travel is not part of the normal role.
Employee has decided to only take the single week now to avoid any confrontation. As above life is about compromise and flexibility. I think certain people like to exercise their rights just because they can.
I think the suggested email above is the right way forward.
sc0tt said:
An employee of ten years service wished to take 3.5 days of unpaid after using the majority of their holiday in February to take a 2 week break in September.
Said employee is going to china on Business for 3 weeks for no additional re numeration in October giving up their weekends for this trip.
Employee has had this request rejected due to the company manual stating this is not special circumstances.
What would be your views on this?
Seems a bit silly or counterproductive for the company. However, OTOH, and playing devil's advocate - if the company doesn't normally give TOIL for people on business travel then it wouldn't want to make an exception for one person. Secondly why would somebody expect "extra" remuneration just because they're based in China? I assume they'll have all travel & subsistence costs covered as well as a per diem allowance? Thirdly (given that he doesn't normally travel on business) does the fact that he gets to spend 3 weeks in China not partially compensate for the extra PITA of being away from home?Said employee is going to china on Business for 3 weeks for no additional re numeration in October giving up their weekends for this trip.
Employee has had this request rejected due to the company manual stating this is not special circumstances.
What would be your views on this?
schmunk said:
Wear your new red socks when you're in China - they consider it lucky.
I would if i were going.Countdown said:
Seems a bit silly or counterproductive for the company. However, OTOH, and playing devil's advocate - if the company doesn't normally give TOIL for people on business travel then it wouldn't want to make an exception for one person. Secondly why would somebody expect "extra" remuneration just because they're based in China? I assume they'll have all travel & subsistence costs covered as well as a per diem allowance? Thirdly (given that he doesn't normally travel on business) does the fact that he gets to spend 3 weeks in China not partially compensate for the extra PITA of being away from home?
I agree with your points in some respect.However, how about having to pay someone to look after animals, would you expect this to be subsidized?
No allowance provided as far as I am aware. Standard salary provided. Bare in mind we aren't talking a sight seeing trip. This is going to be back to back meetings, some face showing and then sat in a room in an industrial area of a weekend. I'm happy to hear both sides to the story for what it's worth, I just believe this is poor for staff morale and a lack of flexibility from the employer.
Just a gripe more than anything else.
Not an unreasonable gripe, in my view. I might not expect brown envelopes of cash in return for making the trip (as travel is part and parcel of my job), but if you withdraw the flexibility, so do I. It's quite odd how badly that can be taken when the employer takes the michael lots, but nobody returns the favour. I'd make sure I was significantly less willing to go above and beyond, but be wary of that being taken massively badly, even if you are demurring from an overnight to Peterborough in future.
randlemarcus said:
Not an unreasonable gripe, in my view. I might not expect brown envelopes of cash in return for making the trip (as travel is part and parcel of my job), but if you withdraw the flexibility, so do I. It's quite odd how badly that can be taken when the employer takes the michael lots, but nobody returns the favour. I'd make sure I was significantly less willing to go above and beyond, but be wary of that being taken massively badly, even if you are demurring from an overnight to Peterborough in future.
I think therein lies the issue, once the employee withdraws flexibility the employer gets the "arse".I think said company has show their true colours in recent years and this is up there with the best.
Allocated tea breaks (as no drinks at your desk are allowed) and a clocking in machine strike me as a truly draconian company to work for.
sc0tt said:
I agree with your points in some respect.
However, how about having to pay someone to look after animals, would you expect this to be subsidized?
No allowance provided as far as I am aware. Standard salary provided. Bare in mind we aren't talking a sight seeing trip. This is going to be back to back meetings, some face showing and then sat in a room in an industrial area of a weekend. I'm happy to hear both sides to the story for what it's worth, I just believe this is poor for staff morale and a lack of flexibility from the employer.
Just a gripe more than anything else.
Hi - the "animals" issue should have been raised when the travel was organised. Unless it's a contractual requirement of the job the Employee could have said "no thanks - I have personal responsibilities which prevent me from going abroad". if it's anything like my company most office-based staff would have seen it as a perk/jolly so if one person couldn't go it would have been offered to somebody else. However, how about having to pay someone to look after animals, would you expect this to be subsidized?
No allowance provided as far as I am aware. Standard salary provided. Bare in mind we aren't talking a sight seeing trip. This is going to be back to back meetings, some face showing and then sat in a room in an industrial area of a weekend. I'm happy to hear both sides to the story for what it's worth, I just believe this is poor for staff morale and a lack of flexibility from the employer.
Just a gripe more than anything else.
I fully agree that the ompany's approach is bad for morale. When you give an employee "unpaid leave" then, unless they're on a factory production line, all it means is that most of their work sits there until they get back. They just have less time to do it in but the company saves 3 days pay.So it-s a double win for the company.
sc0tt said:
Said employee is going to china on Business for 3 weeks for no additional re numeration in October giving up their weekends for this trip.
Surely said employee has noted that those weekends will be carried over as additional leave......Personally I would be looking for another job, if an employer is going to inflexible it does not lead to happy employment to me.
It's ridiculous how some employers simply can't ever see the benefits of give and take. One year I had 30 full days of weekend travel. This was unpaid and no time off in lieu.
Next year we wanted to go to California and wanted to go for 3.5 weeks. So asked if could take this as it was outside the rule that max of two weeks at a time allowed. Refused. Even when pointing out the accrued time, no chance.
Yet the Swedes in the office pissed off at the beginning of July and came back 5 weeks later as this was legal human right in Sweden.
No more weekend travelling from then on. Any weekends that were unavoidable were not done on the cheap. Not even close to on the cheap. And they were made to pay for a fair share of the 30 days.
Next year we wanted to go to California and wanted to go for 3.5 weeks. So asked if could take this as it was outside the rule that max of two weeks at a time allowed. Refused. Even when pointing out the accrued time, no chance.
Yet the Swedes in the office pissed off at the beginning of July and came back 5 weeks later as this was legal human right in Sweden.
No more weekend travelling from then on. Any weekends that were unavoidable were not done on the cheap. Not even close to on the cheap. And they were made to pay for a fair share of the 30 days.
Countdown said:
Thirdly (given that he doesn't normally travel on business) does the fact that he gets to spend 3 weeks in China not partially compensate for the extra PITA of being away from home?
Yeah, 'cause sitting in hotel rooms on your own miles from home and family is really great fun.
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