Plonker at Cadwell
Discussion
thebraketester said:
Well i suppose the same reason that everyone has to have insurance on the road. And yes, bearing in mind insurance companies that sound like "clean-blight" offer track insurance for a 50quid extra per day, why wouldnt you have it?
excess very high and other conditions mean it's only part of the solution.we need better discipline, although to be fair crashes are rare.
garyhun said:
dern said:
I think if you have anything you don't want to risk you should seek out a club day for your marque run by someone who has a good reputation.
Exactly my point above. I'm getting a McLaren next year and the only place to try out the performance is on a track so I will definitely be doing some . I would absolutely never take the risk on one of those 'free for all' track days however. Do a search on youtube for car on car track day crashes and there really are very few and I have never seen one.
I and many others DO have track day insurance.
But it only covers damage to my own car, and has an excess of £1,000 or 10% of the value of the car, hence in the case of the Exige S you are looking at a £5,000 excess.
I agree with Gruffalo, and I have calmed down since last year, where I was alarmed by the court case in which someone crashed and got sued by the other party's track day insurer for £20k. I have the insurance only to cover me against most of the risk of my own excursions into the armco, I don't expect to be hit by other cars.
However, while uncommon, collisions are not as rare as they should be. I have done 30 track days in the last three years, mainly Javelin and MSV, and on those track days there have been two collisions, both times in corners, both times as a result of a driver not appearing to drive sensibly (the other one was an Audi RS6 overtaking a Mini on the wrong side in a corner - major panel damage to the Audi, broken front suspension on the Mini).
Neither crash will stop me doing track days, as i still feel I am far more likely to hit the armco than get hit by a pillock, and even more likely to break something major on my car. I like doing track days and accept the risks. I still drive a car on the road, cross roads on foot, go up and down stairs and use cooking equipment and knives, even though the statistics for those are terrible
But it only covers damage to my own car, and has an excess of £1,000 or 10% of the value of the car, hence in the case of the Exige S you are looking at a £5,000 excess.
I agree with Gruffalo, and I have calmed down since last year, where I was alarmed by the court case in which someone crashed and got sued by the other party's track day insurer for £20k. I have the insurance only to cover me against most of the risk of my own excursions into the armco, I don't expect to be hit by other cars.
However, while uncommon, collisions are not as rare as they should be. I have done 30 track days in the last three years, mainly Javelin and MSV, and on those track days there have been two collisions, both times in corners, both times as a result of a driver not appearing to drive sensibly (the other one was an Audi RS6 overtaking a Mini on the wrong side in a corner - major panel damage to the Audi, broken front suspension on the Mini).
Neither crash will stop me doing track days, as i still feel I am far more likely to hit the armco than get hit by a pillock, and even more likely to break something major on my car. I like doing track days and accept the risks. I still drive a car on the road, cross roads on foot, go up and down stairs and use cooking equipment and knives, even though the statistics for those are terrible
thebraketester said:
Well i suppose the same reason that everyone has to have insurance on the road.
It`s not the same reason at all though is it.thebraketester said:
And yes, bearing in mind insurance companies that sound like "clean-blight" offer track insurance for a 50quid extra per day, why wouldnt you have it?
Because I CHOOSE not to !That`s another £300 to £500 per year on my trackday budget ! . IF I crash and it`s my fault, I fix it. If I can`t fix it, I buy / build another.
The excesses on trackday insurance are so high, for cheap cars like mine, it makes no sense whatsoever. If I was driving round in a £100,000 car, then of course I`d have it, but for me and many trackday drivers who have a dedicated trackday car, whilst crashing it would be very upsetting and expensive, it wouldn`t put me in debt trying to repair it so insurance is an unnecessary expense.
I have utmost sympathy with the Lotus driver who fortunately had insurance, but still has a significant excess to pay.
You are starting down a VERY slippery slope if you start insisting for full insurance or some sort of skills standard on trackdays. Who policies it ? TDO`s ? Once they police it, are they then liable if someone on their list as being a `good` driver has an accident and crashes into someone else ? I`d suspect the insurance companies would try and say so. That would mean increased premiums, which would obviously mean more expensive trackdays for everyone. Safe driver or not.
Edit. Typed at same time as QBee.
And well said QBee, these things are rare. Lets not jump off into a knee jerk reaction.
For the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
For the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
gruffalo said:
garyhun said:
dern said:
I think if you have anything you don't want to risk you should seek out a club day for your marque run by someone who has a good reputation.
Exactly my point above. I'm getting a McLaren next year and the only place to try out the performance is on a track so I will definitely be doing some . I would absolutely never take the risk on one of those 'free for all' track days however. Do a search on youtube for car on car track day crashes and there really are very few and I have never seen one.
more legislation & minimum requirements = more cost. bad slippery slope.
One thing we can all do is speak up to TDOs when bad things are happening and encourage discipline. this way TDO will value the majority and their custom and enforce rules given in the briefing. That's what Jonny does and he sees it as his value add i think, it's his position and customers return.
with cctv these days it's not hard. I was quite surprised when i saw the control room at Snett - about 12 hi-res colour monitors. They see everything, more than the marshalls.
One thing we can all do is speak up to TDOs when bad things are happening and encourage discipline. this way TDO will value the majority and their custom and enforce rules given in the briefing. That's what Jonny does and he sees it as his value add i think, it's his position and customers return.
with cctv these days it's not hard. I was quite surprised when i saw the control room at Snett - about 12 hi-res colour monitors. They see everything, more than the marshalls.
At my local track last year I was there when a Peugeot 106 driven by a new driver 17 panicked hit the accelerator not the brake and went over the side of a caterham lucky no person in the passenger seat. Along with this the track has suffered with some pretty nasty accidents frequently.
Over the winter the track decided to change rules had to be atleast 19 or 2 years driving experience banned a load of people causing problems and conned of the entry for the first corner to make it single file to stop the problems on that corner. It worked too been there 3 times since and not one red flag since driving standards are monitored closely I got called in once as I was running wide coming out of the last corner. Its a much pleasant experience since the changes.
As other commeting above I don't have insurance on my exocet kit car if anything happens I accept the risk involved, but what I do is not go out straight away and just have a quick look to see what the drivers are like in different cars see the bad ones and do my best to be out when they are in or avoid them on track.
It is easy to do when your quicker than anything else as your always a few meters ahead if they do decided to do what the mg did its worked for me so far. The worst events though are action day like at combe the level of driving if appaling and its where you find most you tube crash video with track days.
Over the winter the track decided to change rules had to be atleast 19 or 2 years driving experience banned a load of people causing problems and conned of the entry for the first corner to make it single file to stop the problems on that corner. It worked too been there 3 times since and not one red flag since driving standards are monitored closely I got called in once as I was running wide coming out of the last corner. Its a much pleasant experience since the changes.
As other commeting above I don't have insurance on my exocet kit car if anything happens I accept the risk involved, but what I do is not go out straight away and just have a quick look to see what the drivers are like in different cars see the bad ones and do my best to be out when they are in or avoid them on track.
It is easy to do when your quicker than anything else as your always a few meters ahead if they do decided to do what the mg did its worked for me so far. The worst events though are action day like at combe the level of driving if appaling and its where you find most you tube crash video with track days.
Another angle of the plonker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWDary6MLWk
Really feel for the Lotus driver.
Really feel for the Lotus driver.
redback911 said:
Another angle of the plonker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWDary6MLWk
Really feel for the Lotus driver.
Yeah, that was filmed from my Son`s E36.Really feel for the Lotus driver.
Hindsight is great, you just think `well aim for the left, the Lotus will have moved by the time you arrive..`.
I suspect most novices would aim for the gap that exists NOW, not the gap that will be there when you get there.
I'm with Whoosher on this.
Affordable track-day insurance that covers 3rd parties isn't going to happen, we've been over that ground before many times.
It therefore makes sense that if you can only insure your own car, that it remains optional rather than compulsory.
Car on car collisions are rare. Rarer still that it isn't the result of both drivers being a little over zealous. I won't argue against more stringent policing of driving standards by TDOs, but the idea of introducing mandatory standards, licenses etc to reduce an occasional problem is only going to be of limited success imho. If there are 10 car-on-car collisions across all track days in the UK per year and it reduces it to 5, it's not exactly problem solved. If you want to participate in such events, do an ARDS test and go testing rather than doing public trackdays - but I promise you it won't reduce the risk of car-on-car collisons!
It says on the disclaimer that you fully accept liability to your vehicle regardless of fault. This is one of the wonderful little lines that makes trackdays so affordable, but it is a risk that every participant must be willing to accept.
I'd be gutted if someone drove into me on a trackday. But it's a risk I'm willing to accept. I don't want to pay for trackday insurance because the cost of re-shelling my car is probably going to be less than a year's worth of premiums plus the excess, so it doesn't strike me as particularly good value.
Give yourself room. Keep an eye on your mirrors. Back off to let faster cars past on the straights and indicate your intentions. The risk is always there but sensible and patient driving can keep it as small as possible.
Affordable track-day insurance that covers 3rd parties isn't going to happen, we've been over that ground before many times.
It therefore makes sense that if you can only insure your own car, that it remains optional rather than compulsory.
Car on car collisions are rare. Rarer still that it isn't the result of both drivers being a little over zealous. I won't argue against more stringent policing of driving standards by TDOs, but the idea of introducing mandatory standards, licenses etc to reduce an occasional problem is only going to be of limited success imho. If there are 10 car-on-car collisions across all track days in the UK per year and it reduces it to 5, it's not exactly problem solved. If you want to participate in such events, do an ARDS test and go testing rather than doing public trackdays - but I promise you it won't reduce the risk of car-on-car collisons!
It says on the disclaimer that you fully accept liability to your vehicle regardless of fault. This is one of the wonderful little lines that makes trackdays so affordable, but it is a risk that every participant must be willing to accept.
I'd be gutted if someone drove into me on a trackday. But it's a risk I'm willing to accept. I don't want to pay for trackday insurance because the cost of re-shelling my car is probably going to be less than a year's worth of premiums plus the excess, so it doesn't strike me as particularly good value.
Give yourself room. Keep an eye on your mirrors. Back off to let faster cars past on the straights and indicate your intentions. The risk is always there but sensible and patient driving can keep it as small as possible.
wellground said:
And well said QBee, these things are rare. Lets not jump off into a knee jerk reaction.
For the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
https://youtu.be/DfwbOM38E9wFor the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
Funny you should say that.......
Castle Combe, only 12-15 cars allowed on track at one time. Car two weeks old, owner picked his day carefully and had fun. Note that the purple TVR Chimaera is behind the McLaren first time around...........
QBee said:
wellground said:
And well said QBee, these things are rare. Lets not jump off into a knee jerk reaction.
For the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
https://youtu.be/DfwbOM38E9wFor the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
Funny you should say that.......
Castle Combe, only 12-15 cars allowed on track at one time. Car two weeks old, owner picked his day carefully and had fun. Note that the purple TVR Chimaera is behind the McLaren first time around...........
QBee said:
wellground said:
And well said QBee, these things are rare. Lets not jump off into a knee jerk reaction.
For the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
https://youtu.be/DfwbOM38E9wFor the guy buying a McLaren, do the track days offered by the Manufacturer, each to his own. We can all make our own risk assessments regarding our own cars on track. This is not a risk free hobby, but it is a balance and I would say the organisers I have been with are spot on.
Funny you should say that.......
Castle Combe, only 12-15 cars allowed on track at one time. Car two weeks old, owner picked his day carefully and had fun. Note that the purple TVR Chimaera is behind the McLaren first time around...........
wellground said:
It's a fun day out, keep your eyes out for nobbers and give them room, report them to the TDO and let them sort it. Lets not have a new level of bureaucracy, its bad enough in our World as it is.
+1There's always at least one nobber on a trackday. The only way to stay safe is to spot them and steer clear of them for the rest of the day (or until they come to grief as is usually the way).
boxsey said:
wellground said:
It's a fun day out, keep your eyes out for nobbers and give them room, report them to the TDO and let them sort it. Lets not have a new level of bureaucracy, its bad enough in our World as it is.
+1There's always at least one nobber on a trackday. The only way to stay safe is to spot them and steer clear of them for the rest of the day (or until they come to grief as is usually the way).
Why oh why did I watch this the day before going to Cadwell 
I've got the fear now
This sort of thing does really worry me as my track car is not insured. It's one thing making your own mistake but being penalised by someone else's would be infuriating.
Never seen such a stupid move on a car trackday but seen a few on bike days, including a guy getting knocked off by someone else at Bedford. If you spot someone acting like that best bet is to drive through the pitlane and put some space between you but the Elise driver wouldn't have had any warning at all of what was to come.
I've got the fear nowThis sort of thing does really worry me as my track car is not insured. It's one thing making your own mistake but being penalised by someone else's would be infuriating.
Never seen such a stupid move on a car trackday but seen a few on bike days, including a guy getting knocked off by someone else at Bedford. If you spot someone acting like that best bet is to drive through the pitlane and put some space between you but the Elise driver wouldn't have had any warning at all of what was to come.
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